[Kellanved's shadow]

 Coltaine93, on 23 May 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

Draconus & Dragnipur

Yeah, I also don't think that we will see this. But I hope Draconus will come back in Walk in Shadows. It would be nice why he and Rake stopped being friends. And maybe some hints why Rake will kill him.
The timeline looks good

The High King

Due to the Ereko thing it is now pretty clear that the High King is really Kallor. But this would also mean that Kallor is probably an Azathanai. I liked the idea of him being a just cursed human more.
But Kallor can rule over other people than humans. Maybe his empire lasted until the humans evolved. Or he had more than one empire and lost them all. Like always.

Humans in the world would also contradict the whole Dogerunners/Imass evolving into Humans, Barghasts, Moranth. But we have now an alternative explanation for the Barghast and a much older origin. By the way, are the dogrunners the ancestors of the Imass or the Imass itself? It would be strange if the Imass already knew that the Jaghut are no gods.

The problem with this is that if Kallor is an Azathanai why curse him with immortality, he would already be immortal. Again why curse him with aging, if he is an Azathanai then he could just choose to have a younger body.The same with the curse of never ascending, if he is an Azathanai then he is already an ascendent.

If anything the High King of this world is just another Azathanai playing god with mortals remember way Skillen Droe said

Quote

"Caladan Brood is, for the time being, lost to us."
Skillen Droe studied K'rul- they had, at some point in the past few moments, halted once more 'In what manner is he lost, K'rul? Does he play High King somewhere? Then I will fly to him and drag him from his pathetic throne. What of Mael?Does he hide still beneath the waves, building his castles of sand?" pg 141 Bantam press UK paperback

This post has been edited by Kellanved's shadow: 09 June 2016 - 08:13 AM

[worry]

He's not cursed with immortality. He's cursed with "mortal life unending". That also means he can't change his body, since there's no loophole for that. Thus his use of alchemies. As far as Ascendance goes, who says you can't always go higher? Ascend 50 flights of stairs and you'll be pretty dang high, but it's still only halfway up the Empire State Building. It seems to me both that Kallor is impotent in godhood (worship of him has afforded him no godlike powers) and he's bereft of warren manipulation (all that we see him use is borrowed Chaos from The Crippled God). So the curses were good for something. Also, we don't know if these were the first curses ever levied upon Kallor. He's probably earned plenty over the years.

All that said, there's always the chance that The High King here will throw us for a loop. We still don't have confirmation of his identity, and SE's definitely teasing us with that.

Your post did spark a random thought: the mention of Caladan Brood being lost to them made Skillen immediately think of "playing High King somewhere" -- what if the unspoken end of that question was "like his BROTHER".

[Kasig]

Although I hope Kallor isn't revealed to be an Azathanai later on, I think the fate of (the first as far as we know) Sister of Cold Nights trapped in the persona of Nightchill shows that pretty much anything is possible even to an Azathanai given the right (or wrong?) conditions.

While writing this I wonder if Kallor's curse

Spoiler

is now applied to Korlat after her taking on the mantle of Sister of Cold Nights at the end of TCG

This post has been edited by Kasig: 09 June 2016 - 05:18 PM

[Kellanved's shadow]

 worry, on 09 June 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

He's not cursed with immortality. He's cursed with "mortal life unending". That also means he can't change his body, since there's no loophole for that. Thus his use of alchemies. As far as Ascendance goes, who says you can't always go higher? Ascend 50 flights of stairs and you'll be pretty dang high, but it's still only halfway up the Empire State Building. It seems to me both that Kallor is impotent in godhood (worship of him has afforded him no godlike powers) and he's bereft of warren manipulation (all that we see him use is borrowed Chaos from The Crippled God). So the curses were good for something. Also, we don't know if these were the first curses ever levied upon Kallor. He's probably earned plenty over the years.

All that said, there's always the chance that The High King here will throw us for a loop. We still don't have confirmation of his identity, and SE's definitely teasing us with that.

Your post did spark a random thought: the mention of Caladan Brood being lost to them made Skillen immediately think of "playing High King somewhere" -- what if the unspoken end of that question was "like his BROTHER".

You are correct my good sir. Kallor was cursed with mortal life unending not immortality. Pleas forgive my blasphemous spreading of misinformation.

[Kellanved's shadow]

 Kasig, on 09 June 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

Although I hope Kallor isn't revealed to be an Azathanai later on, I think the fate of (the first as far as we know) Sister of Cold Nights trapped in the persona of Nightchill shows that pretty much anything is possible even to an Azathanai given the right (or wrong?) conditions.

While writing this I wonder if Kallor's curse

Spoiler

is now applied to Korlat after her taking on the mantle of Sister of Cold Nights at the end of TCG

In memories of Ice it was stated that Kallor was a mortal human.

Quote

Here on Jacuruku, in the shadow of long-dead K'Chain Che'Malle ruins, another empire had emerged. Brutal, a devourer of souls, its ruler was a worrier with out equal. K'rul had come to destroy him, had come to snap the chains of twelve million slaves- even the Jaghut Tyrants had not committed such heartless mastery over their subjects. No, it took a mortal human to achieve this level of tyranny over his kin. pg12 TOR fantasy paperback

[Salt-Man Z]

I never would have thought it but Arathan => (A)Ruthan => Mr. Gudd. Not sure I like it, but it does seem like it would be a good fit.

[Nevyn]

 Salt-Man Z, on 06 July 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:

I never would have thought it but Arathan => (A)Ruthan => Mr. Gudd. Not sure I like it, but it does seem like it would be a good fit.

Not as good a fit as Arthanthos , though.

[worry]

Booo!

[Captain Oblivious]

This book has got me thinking, is Icarium really Raest?

In Fol, Raest is talking with Hanako how he has been thinking about dispensing with old names and starting new.

Maybe his finnest is used to lock part of himself/identity and power away as it seems Draconus was doing something similar with himself and that room.

Draconus tried to call his finnest in that fight in the chamber of night. He said he should have died(lost his current identity/self??) But his power/other part didn't come to him when he called.

[Kellanved's shadow]

 Captain Oblivious, on 06 July 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

This book has got me thinking, is Icarium really Raest?

In Fol, Raest is talking with Hanako how he has been thinking about dispensing with old names and starting new.

Maybe his finnest is used to lock part of himself/identity and power away as it seems Draconus was doing something similar with himself and that room.

Draconus tried to call his finnest in that fight in the chamber of night. He said he should have died(lost his current identity/self??) But his power/other part didn't come to him when he called.

I don't think that's possible. Remember in GotM Raest had his own finnest which contained a big portion of his power. Even without it he was able to take on five Tiste Andii Elient soltaken and Silanna. If he can do that and also be the other half of Icarium then im pretty shure all the Azathanai would have come together to eliminate him long ago as he would of been to big a threat. Also in DG Gothos stated that both Icarium and Raest were his son's. If they were the same being than I'm sure he would of just said that Raest is his son as well as his other half.

This post has been edited by Kellanved's shadow: 06 July 2016 - 07:24 AM

[Nevyn]

Not to mention, Raest is pure blooded Jaghut and Icarium a half breed

And Raest doesn't strike me as the type who would go crazy trying to rescue Gothos from an Azath

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 06 July 2016 - 04:06 PM

[Captain Oblivious]

 Nevyn, on 06 July 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

Not to mention, Raest is pure blooded Jaghut and Icarium a half breed

And Raest doesn't strike me as the type who would go crazy trying to rescue Gothos from an Azath

If Gothos does turn out to be an azathani, then Raest would be a half blood.

Burrugast said about Gothos '
There is no honest blood coursing through his veins. We are in the liar’s lair …’

Maybe in Gothos's civilization ending speech he had also revealed the truth to the Jaghut that he was an azathani.

[Nevyn]

 Captain Oblivious, on 06 July 2016 - 05:29 PM, said:

 Nevyn, on 06 July 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

Not to mention, Raest is pure blooded Jaghut and Icarium a half breed

And Raest doesn't strike me as the type who would go crazy trying to rescue Gothos from an Azath

If Gothos does turn out to be an azathani, then Raest would be a half blood.

Burrugast said about Gothos '
There is no honest blood coursing through his veins. We are in the liar's lair …'

Maybe in Gothos's civilization ending speech he had also revealed the truth to the Jaghut that he was an azathani.

The Jaghut found the Azathenai that tried to hide among them and it was not Gothos. It was Spingalle ... revealed in her conversation with Hood and Varandas

[The Unfound]

Finally got around to reading the book. And yes the theories abound. Something that struck me at the end of the book was the icy spear and Wreneck. It felt very foreshadowish to to me. Possibly a hint at Ruthan Gudd?

[worry]

I have a theory that the Jaghut are actually big green Smurfs. Their "squat" towers are essentially mushroom stem houses minus the caps.

[Abyss]

 Nevyn, on 06 July 2016 - 03:13 AM, said:

 Salt-Man Z, on 06 July 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:

I never would have thought it but Arathan => (A)Ruthan => Mr. Gudd. Not sure I like it, but it does seem like it would be a good fit.

Not as good a fit as Arthanthos , though.

True, but Ruthan's affinity for ice magic, apparent lack of any other magery, and immortality, along with his TCG comment about 'you can't control who your parents are', would line up with being Draconus' child.

It's a solid theory, maybe better that Arathan = Tays based on the evidence we've seen so far.

[Nevyn]

 Abyss, on 14 July 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

True, but Ruthan's affinity for ice magic, apparent lack of any other magery, and immortality, along with his TCG comment about 'you can't control who your parents are', would line up with being Draconus' child.

It's a solid theory, maybe better that Arathan = Tays based on the evidence we've seen so far.

I don't remember the parents line at all.

To me the best evidence for Ruthan is his recognition of Quick Ben's name.

The continuing challenge to it being Ruthan is that he calls his powers borrowed, denies being an elder god, and is more kept alive by sorcery (he thinks drawing the otataral sword would kill him) than immortal.


My personal crackpot theory with major holes is that Ruthan Guud is Ifayle.

Pros:
Explains recognition of QB
Ifayle has a way with the ladies too
Corresponds to being mortal
Explains Imass considering him an Elder
Considering his allies in the war on death, in a position to be gifted certain things ...

Cons:
No relation or friendship to Draconus yet
Ifayle was one of the T'lan Imass clans, and they were usually named for their leaders, implying he will undergo the ritual

[NefaraisBredd]

DOD page 972, 'Can you hear me Draconus? I have reconsidered.At long last. And so I give you this. Find me, and one of us will die.'


Who is Ruthan Gudd? This guy was friends with Draconus from before Kallors empire was destroyed! And it states plainly that he might walk away from a fight to the death. He still reminds me of Grizzn Farl bigtime. Womanizing and doing everything he can to avoid attention/direct confrontation.

[Abyss]

Factor in that relationships may change after the flip, and the theory looks even better.

[NefaraisBredd]

Edgewalker and Grizzn are mentioned as part of a larger group of elders-i cant remember where. Grizzn can't be Edgewalker (as much as we want him to be!)

Arathan is Tayschrenn. 'Artan/artanthos' in KoK. Someone remarked that he has not used THAT name in a loooooooooooong time. Last piece of compelling evidence-Tayschrenn survives a dip in the Vitr, which certainly screams that he's Azathanai.KoK is underrated as it has an excellent story and wicked characters. It also has many references and hints about the history of some mysteriois characters.