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Identities, theories, predictions Unleash your insanity

#81 User is offline   Kremson 

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 03:37 AM

Quick korya is quick been therory. When quick wakes when he is four from the nightmare where he he is a corspe running saying I have forgotten something. Well that's when one of korya 12 lifetimes ends and how silverfox creation happened korya soul found quick in a dream and when quick finally stops rambling bout being lost and forgetting boom korya has soul shifted into his new young body that is an adept and boom quick been/korya is born
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#82 User is offline   Kremson 

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 03:39 AM

Quick korya is quick been therory. When quick wakes when he is four from the nightmare where he he is a corspe running saying I have forgotten something. Well that's when one of korya 12 lifetimes ends and how silverfox creation happened korya soul found quick in a dream and when quick finally stops rambling bout being lost and forgetting boom korya has soul shifted into his new young body that is an adept and boom quick been/korya is born
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#83 User is offline   Kremson 

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 03:41 AM

Oh course I posted that without reading the last post. Someone beat me to my theory but I think we are on to something there. It's not to obvious but fits and could be explained in walk in shadow easy with a korya death seen that leads to her soul shifting to a younger relative who has adept level promise
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#84 User is offline   rant 

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:50 PM

View Postnacht, on 30 July 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

View Post- Coltaine -, on 27 July 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

I also think that they are still the descendants of the Imass. Maybe an Azathanai will give evolution a kick in the right direction.


They have some connection to the Eresal. There is a vision of them hanging around with the Deragoth
It was stated somewhere that they were not literally the descendants of imass. More like inheritors.

Evolution is also involved somehow.


I think we may have already seen the start of the evolution from imass to humans. The bonecasters recruited for the Hust cleansing ritual "took Listar's seed" :


" Vastala drew close to him again and peered into his face, and then she nodded "Hataras, you spoke true. Our children will bear the tilt of his eyes. Our children will carry within them the promise of a life beyond the fate of the Dog-Runners."" pg 657-658

This could be the start of the split of humanity off from the Imass.
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#85 User is offline   JohnO 

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 07:56 PM

If korlat was an export of all that was good from Draconus, is kallor an export of all the that was bad from grizzin perhaps?
Would explain why he is one of the few unredemed orrible people in the series -most have some kind of good sidePlus him being Azathani explains how he turned a continent to ash
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#86 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 05:18 PM

Another point on the 'This place is ancient Lether' theories, which I haven't noticed being discussed here, but it may well have been-

Something I noticed way back when I first picked up Midnight Tides, was the location Dracons Sea. That could have been Dracons lands but now inundated by rising sea levels. Something that has been known to occur, in Lether. Mael at it again?

Also, after first reading about the Nascent realm, which first appeared in The House of Chains, I believe, and then for all of Midnight Tides, I always thought that Lether would turn out to be the Nascent, before it got flooded. I think it was Tehol's use of the phrase 'Our civilisation is built...' and the fact that someone once said the Nascent was so large it once contained a human civilisation. I assumed the word 'civilisation' was the foreshadowing.

Now obviously its come to pass that that wasn't true, however if the Tiste lands/entire setting of the two books so far does turn out to be Lether in the past, then the Nascent is still connected to Lether, since it was a large ( the largest?) chunk of Shadow Realm. Not connected in the exact same way as I first suspected, but still pretty cool nonetheless. Sorta connected in the exact opposite way that I first thought?

Sorry, I'm rambling now. This all sounded so much more coherent in my head as I was falling asleep last night.....
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#87 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 10:56 AM

Also - Cedorpol related to the modern Ceda/cedance?
Just a thought.
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#88 User is offline   Planck 

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 06:18 PM

I don't know if this fits here, but a couple of (little) interesting things happen in this book that lead on quite nicely into the Malazan Book of the Fallen.

When Endest Silann releases the birds from there cages and they gather to murder one of the people who kept them in the cages, Silann said something along the lines of the birds containing the man's soul. It reminded me of the way Wickan souls are gathered by birds.

Also thought it was interesting when we see how the Deniers fight in the forests. It was mentioned in Reaper's Gale how the Tiste Edur were fighting the Malazans and it was mentioned that the Tiste Edur were in there element.

Probably my favourite link is the fight between Caladan Brood and Envy/Spite. In Toll the Hounds just as the sisters are about to take Dragnipur they see Caladan Brood and stifle there plans. I guess they realised they had met there match.

This post has been edited by Planck: 22 August 2018 - 09:13 AM

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#89 User is offline   Mekeritrig 

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 12:29 AM

View PostSiergiej, on 22 May 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

All predictions and crazy theories are spread across different threads, so I thought bringing them together would make it easier to navigate and debate. For the sake of formality: heavy spoilers.

Happy to start!

Dragnipur & Draconus


We have already seen the cart, but I don't think it will we have a larger role to play in Walk in Shadow. I wouldn't be surprised if we've already seen all of Draconus in Kharkanas Trilogy. And even if he reappears, we won't learn how he got chained. There's still A LOT of story to be told before the Tiste invasion on Wu, and AFAIR from Reaper's Gale intro, Anomander does not wield Dragnipur yet during the invasion. Maybe after Mother Dark turns from the Andii (because of Eleint blood?) she returns to Elemental Darkness to Draconus and then he creates the sword?

There is this quote from Midnight Tides, it's by Fear Sengar though, so likely unreliable as we know Edur mythology to be twisted:

Quote

'Kaschan sorcery was sent into the warren of Mother Dark, like a plague. Thus was sealed the gate from Kurald Galain to every other realm. Thus was Mother Dark driven into the very core of the Abyss, witness to an endless swirl of light surrounding her – all that she would one day devour, until the last speck of matter vanishes into her. Annihilating Mother Dark. Thus the Kaschan, who are long dead, set upon Mother Dark a ritual that will end in her murder. When all Light is gone. When there is naught to cast Shadow, and so Shadow too is doomed to die.


I imagine this to be a possible timeline:
1. Draconus retreats to Elemental Darkness (end of FoL)
2. Civil war is reignited (Huun Raal? Osserc's comeback?)
3. Tiste awaken to their draconic blood or drink Eleint blood
4. MD turns on them
5. Sundering of Emulrahn occurs and somehow pushes Tiste to flee to Wu
6. K'Chain unleash Kaschan ritual against Darkness-aspected sorcery to protect themselves from Tiste magic during the invasion
7. The ritual lets Chaos breach Elemental Darkness, Draconus puts the cart in motion to give MD a way to flee

Errastas & Sechul Lath

I looked at the Tor re-read of RG and the fragment with Gothos mentioning Kilmandaros' children losing her way caught my attention. We know that Sechul Lath is her son and Errastas is his brother, though they only share the father IIRC. We know from K'rul in FoL that Errastas plans to abuse the warrens, so maybe the sundering of Emurlahn was their deed? There was also some speculation that Kilmanadaros might be Icarium's mother and we know that he 'wounded' Emurlahn, so maybe Errastas and Sechul somehow used Icarium to destroy Emurlahn? It's a long shot, but would also explain why Gothos, a suicidal recluse, was there to intervene - some sense of responsibility for Icarium's deeds?

Also, Gothos lives nearby an Azath house that will in the future be in Letheras and it is still to welcome Silchas and Sheltatha Lore to its loving embrace. We know from Toll the Hounds that Gothos knows about Builders and exploits their power. He seems already aware of them in FoL:

Quote

Arathan shrugged. 'It's not Jaghut script. Gothos said something about a mad Builder.'
'Builder?'
'The ones who make Azath Houses.'


So Gothos might have a bigger role to play in the Wu invasion than we were shown in MT and RG.

High King


I think the humans are already in this world. There's this tidbit from Raest about the War on Death:

Quote

'Thel Akai, who like a good joke,' Raest said, nodding. 'Dog-Runners, who have made sorrow a goddess of endless tears. Ilnap, who flee a usurper among their island kingdom. Forulkan, seeking the final arbiter. Jheck and Jhelarkan, ever eager for blood, even should it ooze from carrion. Petty tyrants from across the ocean, fleeing the High King's incorruptible justice. Tiste, Azathanai, Halacahi, Thelomen—'

'Petty tyrants' are the only race not named. It might just be Erikson toying with us and avoiding saying it out loud: Kallor is already leading a human empire.

Also, I think we get foreshadowing of Ereko's death from Hood and a Thel Akai woman Erekol:

Quote

'Where is your son?'
'Aboard a stout ship.'
'In what sea?'
'West. They ply the Furrow Strait, hunting dhenrabi.'
'Near the High King's lands, then.'
She shrugged. 'Thel Akai fear no one.'
'Unwise. The High King has set his protection upon the dhenrabi, and their breeding waters.'
'My son is safe. What matters it to you, Hood?'

+

Quote

She moved away a step, and then paused and glanced back. 'What vision has found you, and what has it to do with my son?'
'I see him in the High King's shadow. That is not a good place to be.'


Quick Ben


Okay, so after FoL it's not anymore a question of if but how Korya Delath becomes Quick Ben. She's a mahybe, aspected to Darkness, trained to prolong her life by absorbing souls. And she's a counter against Errastas, which is interesting.

Haut gives Korya a finnest at some point and there might be a hint in that. Maybe when she collects a number of souls she can absorb, she locks her power in a finnest and then passes it on to the next mahybe and so it goes for millenia?

Edgewalker


I think it's Yedan Narad. One of the first Edur, possibly the first Watch. He is's supposed to protect the shoreline (Emurlahn in Shake!) and can see the destiny of a future Yedan. He also swears to answer Anomander's call shall he make one, and we know that both Anomander and Edgewalker will be instrumental in protecting the Throne of Shadow. And in RG intro Anomander seems to know whereabouts of Edgewalker ('Edgewalker is committed elsewhere').


Anomander's mother


That's the craziest one, so I left for the end. That's what Caladan tells Anomander:

Quote

'Intentions precede our deeds, and then are left lying in the wake of those deeds. I am not the voice of posterity, Anomander Rake. Nor are you.'
'Rake?'
'Purake is an Azathanai word,' Brood said. 'You did not know? It was an honorific granted to your family, to your father in his youth.'
'Why? How did he earn it?'
The Azathanai shrugged. 'K'rul gave it. He did not share his reasons. Or, rather, "she", as K'rul is wont to change his mind's way of thinking, and so assumes a woman's guise every few centuries. He is now a man, but back then he was a woman.'

Much later, Skillen Droe meets with K'rul at the Sidleways:

Quote

'I heard your call, K'rul, and so here I am. I preferred you as a woman.'
'My days of birthing are done, for a time.'
'But not, it seems, your bleeding.'

It's not said outright, but strongly implies that K'rul has children. What if he/she was the mother of Anomander and his brothers? Being half-Azathanai might explain why Anomander and Silchas partially defied the Mother Dark's blessing of turning black.






Wow. I had never considerd K'rul as the mother. That'd be pretty mind-blowing. That said, I'd prefer our main big badasses to not be powerful due to their birth but by their force of will.
And I will say then/ Every tale is a gift/ And the scars borne by us both/ Are easily missed/ In the distance between us.

"I am Fener's grief. I am the world's grief. And I will hold. I will hold it all, for we are not yet done." Itkovian
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#90 User is offline   Planck 

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 01:41 PM

Arathan's Mother - Mael? He is the God of the Seas and Arathan's name is related to water.

Course it would be rather amusing that Mael would be female at one point :p.
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#91 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 12:51 PM

View PostKellanved, on 09 June 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

View PostColtaine93, on 23 May 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

Draconus & Dragnipur

Yeah, I also don't think that we will see this. But I hope Draconus will come back in Walk in Shadows. It would be nice why he and Rake stopped being friends. And maybe some hints why Rake will kill him.
The timeline looks good

The High King


Due to the Ereko thing it is now pretty clear that the High King is really Kallor. But this would also mean that Kallor is probably an Azathanai. I liked the idea of him being a just cursed human more.
But Kallor can rule over other people than humans. Maybe his empire lasted until the humans evolved. Or he had more than one empire and lost them all. Like always.

Humans in the world would also contradict the whole Dogerunners/Imass evolving into Humans, Barghasts, Moranth. But we have now an alternative explanation for the Barghast and a much older origin. By the way, are the dogrunners the ancestors of the Imass or the Imass itself? It would be strange if the Imass already knew that the Jaghut are no gods.



The problem with this is that if Kallor is an Azathanai why curse him with immortality, he would already be immortal. Again why curse him with aging, if he is an Azathanai then he could just choose to have a younger body.The same with the curse of never ascending, if he is an Azathanai then he is already an ascendent.

If anything the High King of this world is just another Azathanai playing god with mortals remember way Skillen Droe said

Quote

"Caladan Brood is, for the time being, lost to us."
Skillen Droe studied K'rul- they had, at some point in the past few moments, halted once more 'In what manner is he lost, K'rul? Does he play High King somewhere? Then I will fly to him and drag him from his pathetic throne. What of Mael?Does he hide still beneath the waves, building his castles of sand?" pg 141 Bantam press UK paperback




I know (thread/post) necromancy is frowned upon but I have something I feel is relevant to this post.

We don't actually know yet that just because someone is an Azathani they are an Ascendant. Maybe even for the Athazani they have to die before they Ascend. Just like current gods/ascendants such as Kellanved and Dancer had to undergo some form of violent "death" to Ascend, we have also heard Spite, Envy and Malice talking about coming back much more powerful after they die. That's the whole premise of the trick the other two pull in the Malice being killed story portion. Plus when out a wandering, Draconus tells Arathan that he is not *yet* ready for one such as Errastas, hinting that one day, under the right circumstances, he may be.

So maybe that was the curse that the EGs were putting on Kallor. That he'd never achieve that violent death and therefore Ascend, even though he is an Athazani. Granted the potential flaw in my theory is that the examples I gave involve characters who are probably only part Athazani, not full, but you get my line of thinking.
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#92 User is offline   Coltaine - 

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 08:52 PM

No problems with necromany here ^^

I always thought that the immortality part was the punishment part of Kallor's curse. But yes, in case that he is already basically immortal, preventing him from going the next step could also be a way to torment him.

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#93 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 09:05 PM

A few more random thoughts and speculations I want to get down before they fall out if my head and that I'll expand upon at some point-

The big fight we're all waiting for between Anomander and Daconus- I'm guessing that Draconus will either let Rake win because he wants to enter the sword, bearing in mind Draconus seems to have created the sword in part as his way of getting out of Kallor's curse, or being that Rake and Draconus are quite good bud with mutual respect, he'll actually tell him the entire plan and just let Rake execute him with it. Called into question slightly by things Lady Envy says, but her memory is crap anyway.


More "This is Ancient Lether" evidence - There's a town/region in the Lether Empire called Tulamarsh. Tulla Hold remnants? Same ideal as the Dracons Sea being Dracons Hold in the future, I bet.

High King/Kallor speculation - was Kallor reallysuch a Tyrant? I mean apart from the whole genocide throwing the toys put of the pram bit, in BaB I remember something about his subjectsloving him and living in some utopia. That would fit in with the High King from this book having some animal rights policies regarding the dhenrhabi. Unless by under his protection he just means he's keeping them all for himself.


T'riss - I'mpretty sure that we as readers never get to learn of her former life as an Azathanai before her amnesia, but do you think by the current time of the Malazan Empire, at least she gets to remember her previous life? Seems a bit weird/unsatisfying if a god remains ignorant to its life.

All just musings at the moment rather than statements of I think this is the case.

This post has been edited by Keysi: 07 January 2021 - 09:20 PM

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#94 User is offline   Coltaine - 

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 09:55 PM

Kallor had alot of Empires an Jacuruku. Sometimes he didn't make life worse for everyone or wiped them out. I guess those who profited from him remember his reign fondly and other curse him. Also I never associated Kallor with animal protection Posted Image

In case of T'riss I guess she is going to learn something about her past life sometime. She meets Ardata again, at the latest in BaB, probably even before.

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#95 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 09 January 2021 - 12:46 AM

Yeah something is mentioned about the dhenrhabi being under his protection and that's why he has a very long feud with and promise to wipe out all the Thel Akai, culminating in the killing of Ereko.

Under his protection could be read in different ways, either literal protection due to him caring for their safety.... or just that tyre his to do with as he pleases but if you touch them he'll come get you.

I know what way sounds more plausible but with this series you just never know until there's outright confirmation. And even then you gotta consider the source.

Edit- also I think Kallor had a lot of empires in a lot of places all over the world/worlds. Jacuraku just being the one that's had the most attention. He is very old after all.

This post has been edited by Keysi: 09 January 2021 - 12:48 AM

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