[Abyss]

Nevyn, on 22 June 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

How are you still not done, Abyss?

That's it, I'm spoiling the ending.

Rake is a secret Jaghut spy.

African or European?

worry, on 22 June 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

Never thought to compare to a finnest with a d'ivers, but you're right. Drac finnest is a total monster.

I meant that even without his finnest Drac was still badass enough to take on the d'ivers....of course, if he had his finnest he probably would have tried to impregnate the thing instead of just killing it a lot, apparently...
...why yes the Sandalath thing is still bothering me, why do you ask?

[worry]

I finished ~6 weeks ago and I'm still thinking about that scene. I distinctly remember saying to myself at that point -- if this is the trauma that gets alluded to in TCG, it is so beyond even what I imagined. And if it's not...uh oh.

[Andorion]

worry, on 23 June 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

I finished ~6 weeks ago and I'm still thinking about that scene. I distinctly remember saying to myself at that point -- if this is the trauma that gets alluded to in TCG, it is so beyond even what I imagined. And if it's not...uh oh.

Yeah after reading that scene I had to stop and think "Oh so this was it.... that explains a lot. And SE is twisted"

[nacht]

The finnest is like Mr.Hyde.
What happened to it anyway.

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 23 June 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

Nevyn, on 22 June 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

How are you still not done, Abyss?

That's it, I'm spoiling the ending.

Rake is a secret Jaghut spy.

African or European?

I don't know that!

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Andorion, on 23 June 2016 - 04:46 AM, said:

worry, on 23 June 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

I finished ~6 weeks ago and I'm still thinking about that scene. I distinctly remember saying to myself at that point -- if this is the trauma that gets alluded to in TCG, it is so beyond even what I imagined. And if it's not...uh oh.

Yeah after reading that scene I had to stop and think "Oh so this was it.... that explains a lot. And SE is twisted"

Much the same. I finished it five days after publication in the UK (so, late February) and it bothered me for quite a long time afterwards. Still makes me shudder. And I thought Enesdia's fate in FoD was bad enough!

[Kasig]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 23 June 2016 - 10:08 PM, said:

.And I thought Enesdia's fate in FoD was bad enough!

Still think what happened to Enesdia was worst. Sand's ordeal is simply a fresher read and came out of nowhere so maybe a little more shock value in the moment.

[Abyss]

17 through 20something....

Am utterly into it and reading in bits and pieces every chance I get.

Which is a horrible way to read this book. The centre cannot hold....




The dog-runner witches were awesome and funny. What they did to the Hust was an insane bit of magic and SE writing.

Sandalath is officially batshite crazy. And yet Korlat seems to be doing exactly what she wants.

Scabby, Osserc, Krul, Skillen, Ardata, Telorast, Curdle, the warrens, the Eleint, Korabas, Errastas, gates, rituals, webs, sextorture, traps, dead Thel Akai, Grey Shore throne, that chapter was MADNESS.

Ceb and Endest just broke my heart a little talking about sorcery and opposing Hunn Raal..

Rise and Emreal need to die so so much. All their plotting seems to amount to letting people do exactly what they were going to do anyways.

Ok, SE is really blowing my mind here... the sequence where Hood's army departs... wow. Just wow.

Did Draconus just capitulate to Silchas??? I think he did.... Is it going to stop the battle???? I seriously doubt it....

Oh hey Rake, nice of you to decide to pitch in.

I have this horrible feeling that Kelleras and Gripp and Pelk and even Hist are all dead meat, specifically because Rake is trying to keep them out of the fight.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 30 June 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

Scabby, Osserc, Krul, Skillen, Ardata, Telorast, Curdle, the warrens, the Eleint, Korabas, Errastas, gates, rituals, webs, sextorture, traps, dead Thel Akai, Grey Shore throne, that chapter was MADNESS.

Wasn't that chapter just perfect?

[nacht]

Andorion, on 01 July 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

Abyss, on 30 June 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

Scabby, Osserc, Krul, Skillen, Ardata, Telorast, Curdle, the warrens, the Eleint, Korabas, Errastas, gates, rituals, webs, sextorture, traps, dead Thel Akai, Grey Shore throne, that chapter was MADNESS.

Wasn't that chapter just perfect?

I officially declare this the best chapter ever :-)

[Abyss]

nacht, on 01 July 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

Andorion, on 01 July 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

Abyss, on 30 June 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

Scabby, Osserc, Krul, Skillen, Ardata, Telorast, Curdle, the warrens, the Eleint, Korabas, Errastas, gates, rituals, webs, sextorture, traps, dead Thel Akai, Grey Shore throne, that chapter was MADNESS.

Wasn't that chapter just perfect?

I officially declare this the best chapter ever :-)

It was perfect in its Malazanousity.

[Abyss]

.....aaaaaand DONE.Need to digest a bit, reread a couple of parts. Overall liked, some parts loved, could have lived with about 25% less philosophy but it didnt bother me much in the larger context of the story.
Reactions soon.

[nacht]

BTW, Ardata was so awesome. I think the fate of Skinner was only to be expected.
and T'riss and Ardata, that was quite a reveal.

[Abyss]

nacht, on 02 July 2016 - 11:56 PM, said:

BTW, Ardata was so awesome. I think the fate of Skinner was only to be expected.
and T'riss and Ardata, that was quite a reveal.

Indeed it was.Didnt they call each other sister in BLOOD AND BONE,or am i misremembering that?
Also liked that Triss was fully prepared to attack Brood if he got invovled in the Tiste battle at Tarns.

[nacht]

Abyss, on 03 July 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

nacht, on 02 July 2016 - 11:56 PM, said:

BTW, Ardata was so awesome. I think the fate of Skinner was only to be expected.
and T'riss and Ardata, that was quite a reveal.

Indeed it was.Didnt they call each other sister in BLOOD AND BONE,or am i misremembering that?
Also liked that Triss was fully prepared to attack Brood if he got invovled in the Tiste battle at Tarns.

Interesting.
Just like K'rul, Draconus and Nightchill call themselves brothers and sisters, it is possible that all primordial Azathanai consider themselves to be offspring of some super-diety or atleast part of a family.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Abyss, on 02 July 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

.....aaaaaand DONE.Need to digest a bit, reread a couple of parts. Overall liked, some parts loved, could have lived with about 25% less philosophy but it didnt bother me much in the larger context of the story.
Reactions soon.

I think that accurately sums up what I felt when I finished - although the philosophy wasn't the deal breaker for me it seems to have been for quite a few.

[Abyss]

okay... let's get on with this....　

　

OVERALL

I enjoyed this book, as much as I enjoyed FORGE OF DARKNESS and for many of the same reasons. To an extent, while there are parts I did love, I liked but didn't love this book for many of the same reasons. A key one, and nothing to do with the book, was that this was a dense, deep book, and that's not my usual read. That said, I enjoyed that element to FOD, largely because I had the time to read a chapter at a time, digest and continue. There aren't many authors I give that kind of commitment to, but this is SE, and he's earned my trust, so I go with it and am rewarded. the problem this time was I seriously didn't have time to read a whole chapter at a time. it was more like bits and pieces over a really long read, and when entire chapters are characters sitting around a fire debating the values of society vs civilization, that's a long way to go until the next time a Thelomen caves a dragon's skull in with a really big axe.

But there was some pure Malazan candy in this book, and some great action, and a finale I'm going to have to think about and reread at least once or twice, and on those fronts SE utterly gave me my dollarz and eyetime's worth and I will be right there with my pre-order when book three gets close.




RENARR... wow, didn't see that coming. Her inner monologue was one of the darkest in the book but also one of the most interesting. Her relationship with Urusander was one of the most interesting inter-personal bits as well, and for a character who never got into a fight, I found her segments among the most compelling. And then she stabbed Father Light in the chest as revenge on Osserc and made a mess of virtually everything. Did NOT see that coming.




PRAZEK and DATHERNAR - possibly my favorite pov throughout the book. Again, characters who could spout philosophy and debate whatever, at times verging on utter nonsense, but their voice and actions were such that it didn't bother me. And the way they went from two goofballs slacking off on a bridge to two of Rake's best, to basically salvaging the Hust Legion and surviving the finale... loved it. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern made badass. Totally bought their friendship and their competence. I hope we see them again.

[Abyss]

WARETH, TORAS REDONE, HUST LEGION, etc - I enjoyed Wareth's storyline, even if it was a bit obvious he was just not the coward he thought he was and would end up having to prove himself in the battle. His efforts to keep the officers, and Rance, in line, were interesting. The notion that an entire company of prisoners can become the most feared Legion in the Andii world was inherently flawed and various characters made that point repeatedly. Rance's split-personality, Listar's self-blame, it just seemed like these people were far too broken to ever be more than cannon fodder. The Parz and Dath send for Dog-Runner spiritual help and end up not truly salvaging the Legion, but salvaging the individuals... that was a twist within a twist, one of my favorite scenes in the book and a great piece of SE writing. How/whether this leads to them marching to their apparent deaths in Starvald Demelain I am VERY curious to see.

Would have liked more about how the actual armor and weapons worked in battle. Krul's exchange with Telorast and Curdle about Andii iron quenched in Vitr was VERY interesting.

Could have done without Toras... she started the book at a low and never really climbed out.

Hustain himself ... needed perhaps a little more of him to give the last scene with Wreneck playing out the battle a bit more impact, and he seemed as distraught over the battle as a whole than the fate of 'his' legion in particular, which was telling.

[polle]

Abyss, on 30 June 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

17 through 20something....



The dog-runner witches were awesome and funny. What they did to the Hust was an insane bit of magic and SE writing.

That was one of my favourite parts of the book, so many gems hidden there. The witches display such an awareness of their environment, how they're manipulated by the azathanai and a foreshadowing of the jaghut tyrants.
I'd love a whole series dedicated to the Imass history and their story!

[Abyss]

SKILLEN n KRUL. So much Malazan goodness to this ploltline. virtually every line containd a hint or ref to something else. The KC, Mael, Telorast n Curdle, SO MUCH GOOD STUFF.

KELLERAS, IVIS, GRIPP... The latest in a long tradition of philosopher soldiers, these three and a handful of others were mostly there to offoer an outside perspective of more important characters, mostly, Silchas and Rake, doing more important things. I enjoyed the little details, Gripp.'s marriage to Hish Tulla, Ivis' old warriors relationship wth Rake, Kelleras' sheer frustration with Silchas' inability to be Rake. At times the philosophy rose a little high, but these were far from the worse offenders in the book.

Speaking of worse offenders.... SANDALATH takes the I CANT BELIEVE ITS NOT MHYBE award for this book. She went to a crazy, ugly place reminiscent of how she ended the MBF series. That said, that scene with Drac's finnest was viscerally distrubing and raised a lot of interesting questions about Korlat.

THE THEL AKAI... I did not love anything about these characters and their two plotlines, aside from the minimal imsight into the race as a precursor to what we thought we knew from the MBF. The humor wasn't that funny and the philosophy wasn't that interesting to me.


KORYA, ARATHAN, misc JAGHUT, WAR ON DEATH - loved everything that went on in this storyline. Will give it it's own post later, but this was SE at his best, crazy concepts, different races, wild universe altering events being carried out with the (semi) human notes to keep it grounded. The chapter where Korya realized Hood had begun his ritual and moved the entire army outside of life was just stunning. Anyone else get a Drek vibe from the thing Korya almost absorbed early on?

GLYPH, THE WATCH, THE DENIERS ARMY - I would have liked more of this plotline. The Deniers finally fighting back and just cutting the Liosan to shreds was immensely satisfying, but the link of this Watch to Yedan from the MBF was interesting and I would like to know more.

THE LIOSAN CAMP - Basically just filled with horrible people and other people watching people be horrible. I could almost say it went too far in that the notion of Liosan and Andii being united at the end was distasetful after all the truly evil crap the Liosan pulled on the Shake, Deniers and misc Andii along the way. The union was made more acceptable by the idea that Urusander was never the one responsible, but only somewhat, and then Renarr made even that go sideways. Am very curious to see how things play out between Osserc and Hunn Raal now.