[WinterPhoenix]

So I finally finished this book, the first half took me forever, and the second I read in a day. Besides all the usual too busy to read moments, I'm not entirely sure why this one took me so long to finish, but I can say that the lousy editing was a factor, it really grated to read it with such a plethora of spelling errors, mixed words and so on.

I have to say that while I found this to be a much more exciting story than Night of Knives (which frankly I found unbelievably boring, considering my interest in the events it was detailing) I'm still not all that convinced of Esslemont, comparatively at any rate. I mean don't get me wrong it's still a Malazan novel, and by that attribute alone it stands above alot I've read in the genre, but quite honestly I feel the series is in far more capable hands with Erikson than ICE. The whole novel felt rather too long as well for me, and I very rarely say that, being susceptible to rambling myself I usually disregard criticisms of the 'verbal diarrhoea' ilk, but I can't ignore my thoughts that this novel was simply overlong.

One thing that this novel really brought to the fore in my mind is the concept of relative power levels, disregarding how the Seguleh really tear up any proposed rulebook on these things, there are others in this novel that really got me wondering as well. Tayschrenn, just how bloody powerful is this guy? I mean we have a pretty well informed Avowed mage (Lor-SInn, Opal, Shell, one of those I forget which) bringing up Pale and saying that Tayschrenn stood against Anomander, and when she is told Anomander held back she isn't entirely convinced. She at least then is in awe enough to believe that his standing against Rake is at least possible. Frankly, prior to this novel, while I knew he was a High Mage, I never got the impression that he was so much more powerful than say Quick Ben or others, as this would suggest, even during the enfilade at Pale.

Skinner and Cowl, does anyone else share my belief that ICE falls into the trap of telling and not really showing with these two? We are led to believe by the narrative that they are ridiculously powerful, simply by who they are compared to, Dassem and Dancer respectively. Not once do they really show anything that entirely suggests these levels of power, Cowl is kept at bay by Topper who before that scene I would have had lower than Kalam and closer to Possum in my mind. Skinner really relies on his armor to go as long as he did with Dassem/Dessembrae - while admittedly this is him holding his own with an ascendant, universally recognised as one of if not the best swordsmen alive, I still feel as though it's not really enough in the show department. As for Rell the self-exiled Seguleh, he holds off Ryllandaras by himself, a feat only Dassem is said to have been able to do in the past, and we have no idea how high he actually got amongst the Agatii, how would he fair against Dassem or Skinner do you think? How would Mok or the 2nd or the 1st fair for that matter?

Dassem Vs Skinner Vs Segueh 1st Vs Karsa Orlong, Fatal 4 Way, who wins???

I do realise that in a series so massive the relative, who'd beat who will become a mire that for the most part isn't worth travelling through in the context of serious scholarly pursuit, thus the questions above are somewhat tongue in cheek. I do believe that ICE failed to show enough of Skinner and Cowl though, and I'm also genuinely upset that it SEEMS (bold for emphasis) we won't be seeing anymore of the enigmatic Tayschrenn, who quietly became one of my favourite characters actually.

P.S. I REALLY, REALLY, FUCKIN' DESPISE MALLICK REL!!!!!! Ages ago I made the stupid decision to read the blurbs for all the novels, as such I knew the Malazan Empire found a new emperor, i.e. I knew Laseen died. Even so I read this entire book attempting to convince myself it wasn't going to happen, right up until the moment it did, and I felt for Possum right there I honestly did. The entire book, I kept hoping, 'Naw, there's no way Mallick can pull off something so freaking audacious, someone'll get him, the new emperor must be someone else' even though I knew it was childish dreams. I really hate him, like Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest levels of hate going on here!!!!

[HoosierDaddy]

The typos in this were bad. Really bad. Not so in the next volumes if I remember correctly. They stood out in this one.

Also, that being said, I love RotCG.

[Andorion]

WinterPhoenix, on 26 April 2016 - 02:14 AM, said:

So I finally finished this book, the first half took me forever, and the second I read in a day. Besides all the usual too busy to read moments, I'm not entirely sure why this one took me so long to finish, but I can say that the lousy editing was a factor, it really grated to read it with such a plethora of spelling errors, mixed words and so on.

I have to say that while I found this to be a much more exciting story than Night of Knives (which frankly I found unbelievably boring, considering my interest in the events it was detailing) I'm still not all that convinced of Esslemont, comparatively at any rate. I mean don't get me wrong it's still a Malazan novel, and by that attribute alone it stands above alot I've read in the genre, but quite honestly I feel the series is in far more capable hands with Erikson than ICE. The whole novel felt rather too long as well for me, and I very rarely say that, being susceptible to rambling myself I usually disregard criticisms of the 'verbal diarrhoea' ilk, but I can't ignore my thoughts that this novel was simply overlong.

One thing that this novel really brought to the fore in my mind is the concept of relative power levels, disregarding how the Seguleh really tear up any proposed rulebook on these things, there are others in this novel that really got me wondering as well. Tayschrenn, just how bloody powerful is this guy? I mean we have a pretty well informed Avowed mage (Lor-SInn, Opal, Shell, one of those I forget which) bringing up Pale and saying that Tayschrenn stood against Anomander, and when she is told Anomander held back she isn't entirely convinced. She at least then is in awe enough to believe that his standing against Rake is at least possible. Frankly, prior to this novel, while I knew he was a High Mage, I never got the impression that he was so much more powerful than say Quick Ben or others, as this would suggest, even during the enfilade at Pale.

Skinner and Cowl, does anyone else share my belief that ICE falls into the trap of telling and not really showing with these two? We are led to believe by the narrative that they are ridiculously powerful, simply by who they are compared to, Dassem and Dancer respectively. Not once do they really show anything that entirely suggests these levels of power, Cowl is kept at bay by Topper who before that scene I would have had lower than Kalam and closer to Possum in my mind. Skinner really relies on his armor to go as long as he did with Dassem/Dessembrae - while admittedly this is him holding his own with an ascendant, universally recognised as one of if not the best swordsmen alive, I still feel as though it's not really enough in the show department. As for Rell the self-exiled Seguleh, he holds off Ryllandaras by himself, a feat only Dassem is said to have been able to do in the past, and we have no idea how high he actually got amongst the Agatii, how would he fair against Dassem or Skinner do you think? How would Mok or the 2nd or the 1st fair for that matter?

Dassem Vs Skinner Vs Segueh 1st Vs Karsa Orlong, Fatal 4 Way, who wins???

I do realise that in a series so massive the relative, who'd beat who will become a mire that for the most part isn't worth travelling through in the context of serious scholarly pursuit, thus the questions above are somewhat tongue in cheek. I do believe that ICE failed to show enough of Skinner and Cowl though, and I'm also genuinely upset that it SEEMS (bold for emphasis) we won't be seeing anymore of the enigmatic Tayschrenn, who quietly became one of my favourite characters actually.

P.S. I REALLY, REALLY, FUCKIN' DESPISE MALLICK REL!!!!!! Ages ago I made the stupid decision to read the blurbs for all the novels, as such I knew the Malazan Empire found a new emperor, i.e. I knew Laseen died. Even so I read this entire book attempting to convince myself it wasn't going to happen, right up until the moment it did, and I felt for Possum right there I honestly did. The entire book, I kept hoping, 'Naw, there's no way Mallick can pull off something so freaking audacious, someone'll get him, the new emperor must be someone else' even though I knew it was childish dreams. I really hate him, like Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest levels of hate going on here!!!!

Regarding relative power levels, what I took from RotCG was hte importance of a particular PoV. Regardless of what is said here about a Tay vs Rake battle, remember we have Rake's own PoV in GotM. Rake was defending Moons Spawn against many powerful mages, while trying to hold back to prevent mass casualties, while fighting suddenly summoned demons. If it had been Rake vs Tay one on one, no distractions, he would have flattened Tay.

Regarding Cowl and Skinner, I agree, they are talked about as powerful, but then again Topper used to rule the Claw. His going head to head with Cowl shouldn't be that surprising. With Skinner its different. He is talked about as powerful, he had to be, if he once held off Dassem, but what is he now? We saw that Dassem would have turned him into confetti without that armour, So clearly he is more arrogance less power? But why? RAFO

[WinterPhoenix]

Oh I believe (having the benefit of Rake's POV like you said, unlike the Avowed mage in question) that Rake would've squashed Tay in a one on one fight, I simply found it impressive that someone as well informed as the Avowed mage must be has any questions about this fact. She knows Tayschrenn, in fact she knows more about him than we do we have to assume, and she is not entirely unconvinced that he couldn't stand toe to toe with Rake. That is more impressive than I had cause to believe of him before that scene.

As for Topper, I always got the impression - perhaps wrongly it would seem - that he rose to his position via a mix of talent and politics, that he wasn't very much better, if at all, than Kalam or some others in the organization, he was just better at playing the game. I certainly wouldn't have had him anywhere near Dancer, and Cowl is talked about as if not Dancer's equal, then certainly right up there with him. I don't think ICE did enough to really show this, I have no reason to believe Cowl was ever as scary as many characters seem to think he was.

[Andorion]

WinterPhoenix, on 26 April 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

Oh I believe (having the benefit of Rake's POV like you said, unlike the Avowed mage in question) that Rake would've squashed Tay in a one on one fight, I simply found it impressive that someone as well informed as the Avowed mage must be has any questions about this fact. She knows Tayschrenn, in fact she knows more about him than we do we have to assume, and she is not entirely unconvinced that he couldn't stand toe to toe with Rake. That is more impressive than I had cause to believe of him before that scene.

As for Topper, I always got the impression - perhaps wrongly it would seem - that he rose to his position via a mix of talent and politics, that he wasn't very much better, if at all, than Kalam or some others in the organization, he was just better at playing the game. I certainly wouldn't have had him anywhere near Dancer, and Cowl is talked about as if not Dancer's equal, then certainly right up there with him. I don't think ICE did enough to really show this, I have no reason to believe Cowl was ever as scary as many characters seem to think he was.

There is actually a mention of Cowl. way back in MoI, about how he hurt Silanah. Thats quite impressive in my book

[Sheve]

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

WinterPhoenix, on 26 April 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

Oh I believe (having the benefit of Rake's POV like you said, unlike the Avowed mage in question) that Rake would've squashed Tay in a one on one fight, I simply found it impressive that someone as well informed as the Avowed mage must be has any questions about this fact. She knows Tayschrenn, in fact she knows more about him than we do we have to assume, and she is not entirely unconvinced that he couldn't stand toe to toe with Rake. That is more impressive than I had cause to believe of him before that scene.

As for Topper, I always got the impression - perhaps wrongly it would seem - that he rose to his position via a mix of talent and politics, that he wasn't very much better, if at all, than Kalam or some others in the organization, he was just better at playing the game. I certainly wouldn't have had him anywhere near Dancer, and Cowl is talked about as if not Dancer's equal, then certainly right up there with him. I don't think ICE did enough to really show this, I have no reason to believe Cowl was ever as scary as many characters seem to think he was.

There is actually a mention of Cowl. way back in MoI, about how he hurt Silanah. Thats quite impressive in my book

And he stod up to and survived Rake coming after him for it.
Rake was NOT happy when he heard that Cowl was in Darujhistan in GOTM.

[WinterPhoenix]

I will admit I didn't remember any of the Silana references, that is pretty cool, again though we don't actually see Cowl performing any of these acts.

[worry]

Plus Topper has pretty strong Andii blood in him (a full half Andii I think). He's not just a human mage.

[HoosierDaddy]

Think about how terrified everyone is of the Imperial Warren. Topper's just been hanging out in there for a LOOOOONG time. (Admittedly, it drove him somewhat loopy, but still.)

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 26 April 2016 - 10:54 PM

[WinterPhoenix]

So I have started reading Toll the Hounds, I won't mention anything directly here, as that is obviously against the sub-forum policy. I just read a recounting by a certain character of the events surrounding Cowl/Silanah in Mott Wood, and I will definitely admit that it does sound mighty impressive, especially the aftermath. I've racked my brains over and over, I simply cannot remember where the mention of this event is in MoI? Though I do remember Rake's anger at the thought of Cowl in Darujhistan in GotM.

Once again though I would point out that this is something we never get to see directly, in point of fact the stronger I hear Cowl is indirectly the more I find the scenes with Topper hard to swallow, because the more proficient I then have to believe Topper is by way of comparison. I do remember that Topper is at least a quarter (maybe half, I am not sure) Andii, and I accede that he is obviously a great assassin to have risen to the rank of clawmaster, even still I cannot abandon completely my belief that in a straight fight Kalam would have taken him - though I will admit that there is perhaps some fondness for Kalam colouring my perception. Following on from that, I never once believed Kalam - or Topper - to be in the Dancer levels of power, and we are told by direct comparison that Cowl supposedly is - at least pre-ascendancy anyhow.

On the topic of Topper, how long can he actually have been hanging out in the Imperial Warren anyhow? Since the last time I remember seeing him was in an advisory role to Adjunct Tavore - in the command tent - back in HoC or tBH (I've literally forgotten which, I think it might be HoC, before the army reaches Raraku, but honestly I've forgotten) it doesn't seem like all that long for a great fear of the Imperial Warren to have formed on the back of his semi-insane assassinations of unwanted intruders. That is to say by the time of the events of RotCG it can literally have only been 3 years tops since that scene in the tent.

[Kanese S's]

WinterPhoenix, on 26 April 2016 - 02:14 AM, said:

So I finally finished this book, the first half took me forever, and the second I read in a day. Besides all the usual too busy to read moments, I'm not entirely sure why this one took me so long to finish, but I can say that the lousy editing was a factor, it really grated to read it with such a plethora of spelling errors, mixed words and so on.

I have to say that while I found this to be a much more exciting story than Night of Knives (which frankly I found unbelievably boring, considering my interest in the events it was detailing) I'm still not all that convinced of Esslemont, comparatively at any rate. I mean don't get me wrong it's still a Malazan novel, and by that attribute alone it stands above alot I've read in the genre, but quite honestly I feel the series is in far more capable hands with Erikson than ICE. The whole novel felt rather too long as well for me, and I very rarely say that, being susceptible to rambling myself I usually disregard criticisms of the 'verbal diarrhoea' ilk, but I can't ignore my thoughts that this novel was simply overlong.

One thing that this novel really brought to the fore in my mind is the concept of relative power levels, disregarding how the Seguleh really tear up any proposed rulebook on these things, there are others in this novel that really got me wondering as well. Tayschrenn, just how bloody powerful is this guy? I mean we have a pretty well informed Avowed mage (Lor-SInn, Opal, Shell, one of those I forget which) bringing up Pale and saying that Tayschrenn stood against Anomander, and when she is told Anomander held back she isn't entirely convinced. She at least then is in awe enough to believe that his standing against Rake is at least possible. Frankly, prior to this novel, while I knew he was a High Mage, I never got the impression that he was so much more powerful than say Quick Ben or others, as this would suggest, even during the enfilade at Pale.

Skinner and Cowl, does anyone else share my belief that ICE falls into the trap of telling and not really showing with these two? We are led to believe by the narrative that they are ridiculously powerful, simply by who they are compared to, Dassem and Dancer respectively. Not once do they really show anything that entirely suggests these levels of power, Cowl is kept at bay by Topper who before that scene I would have had lower than Kalam and closer to Possum in my mind. Skinner really relies on his armor to go as long as he did with Dassem/Dessembrae - while admittedly this is him holding his own with an ascendant, universally recognised as one of if not the best swordsmen alive, I still feel as though it's not really enough in the show department. As for Rell the self-exiled Seguleh, he holds off Ryllandaras by himself, a feat only Dassem is said to have been able to do in the past, and we have no idea how high he actually got amongst the Agatii, how would he fair against Dassem or Skinner do you think? How would Mok or the 2nd or the 1st fair for that matter?

Dassem Vs Skinner Vs Segueh 1st Vs Karsa Orlong, Fatal 4 Way, who wins???

I do realise that in a series so massive the relative, who'd beat who will become a mire that for the most part isn't worth travelling through in the context of serious scholarly pursuit, thus the questions above are somewhat tongue in cheek. I do believe that ICE failed to show enough of Skinner and Cowl though, and I'm also genuinely upset that it SEEMS (bold for emphasis) we won't be seeing anymore of the enigmatic Tayschrenn, who quietly became one of my favourite characters actually.

P.S. I REALLY, REALLY, FUCKIN' DESPISE MALLICK REL!!!!!! Ages ago I made the stupid decision to read the blurbs for all the novels, as such I knew the Malazan Empire found a new emperor, i.e. I knew Laseen died. Even so I read this entire book attempting to convince myself it wasn't going to happen, right up until the moment it did, and I felt for Possum right there I honestly did. The entire book, I kept hoping, 'Naw, there's no way Mallick can pull off something so freaking audacious, someone'll get him, the new emperor must be someone else' even though I knew it was childish dreams. I really hate him, like Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest levels of hate going on here!!!!

I disagree on Cowl. To me, Cowl is scary. Maybe Topper is below Kalam in the power order or whatever, but that's not really saying he sucks. Kalam is beastly. Laseen was insanely good, and she picked Topper essentially to replace her in the whole 'leading the Claw' thing. He might not be Apsalar or Kalam, but he's certainly not to be trifled with.


Skinner actually is portrayed as having declined in skill somewhat. He is over-relying on his fancy armor. That's the point. He's grown complacent in his absence (as has Cowl, to a lesser extent).

Tayschrenn is redonkulous powerful. He's not only a High Mage, he's the High Mage. Remember GotM? Remember that he's the same rank as Nightchill? Now consider who Nightchill actually was.

I don't agree that the book was overlong. I found it a fun read from start to finish.


I do agree on hating Mallick Rel, though. Seriously, fuck that guy.

[Gorefest]

WinterPhoenix, on 26 April 2016 - 02:14 AM, said:

Dassem Vs Skinner Vs Segueh 1st Vs Karsa Orlong, Fatal 4 Way, who wins???

<Abyss mode>

Wolverine!!!

</Abyss mode>

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 28 April 2016 - 07:30 PM

[worry]

Ah, no wonder my Mallick Rel fan club meetings have been so sparsely attended. Though I had BO or something.

[Nevyn]

Oponn Relationship, on 28 April 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

Ah, no wonder my Mallick Rel fan club meetings have been so sparsely attended. Though I had BO or something.

Can't it be both?

[WinterPhoenix]

I take everyone's comments on board, and certainly I will concede that I was perhaps a little hasty, certainly when it comes to Cowl at any rate, taking on Silanah is damn impressive. I still feel as though seeing more of Cowl would have been better, and frankly I'm not sure I'll ever be able to get over how out of the blue Topper's appearance felt to me; this book really did force a serious reevaluation of the power order of certain individuals in my head. Don't get me wrong I understand such things are necessarily subjective, i.e points of view, the effects of time on one's abilities and so on and so forth. And an ordered list of power levels from top to bottom is both impossible and patently unneeded, it just jars when suddenly so many people were more or less powerful than I fought. Despite its tongue in cheek nature, I would bloody love to see that Fatal 4 Way I described above

As for Tayschrenn, he honestly sort of crept up my list of characters I like/love, the enigmatic High Mage was strangely endearing in his general absence for me, I was sad to see him thrust into the maws of chaos and hope most earnestly that we will see a return in true never say die Malazan fashion. Nonetheless I think it was his huge periods of inaction that really led me to underestimate just how strong he actually was, not to mention I would have believed him more capable of seriously harming Kallor in MoI after having read the culminating scenes of this novel - though I guess the poisoned warrens at the time were having a deleterious effect on his erm mage mojo. And all that being said, I still believe that it is incredible an otherwise very well informed Avowed Mage would believe him at all capable of standing toe to toe with Rake (who by the way I am so damn happy to be reading about again, now I am into TtH!!!)

Throwing Wolverine in there is surely unfair, Gorefest?? Though I've got a feeling that considering the seeming extent of Erikson's love for the character it really wouldn't matter who you threw in, he'd probably have Karsa win

A Mallick Rel fan club honestly sounds like my idea of hell, forever tortured by his slimy, unctuous, egomaniacal self, slowy filling with a pervasive fear and disgust at the idea he'll continue to have his way forever

This post has been edited by WinterPhoenix: 29 April 2016 - 01:56 AM

[worry]

The food is good though.

I will say I don't disagree with you about the show vs. tell thing with Skinner and Cowl. There are reasons, of course, for an author to keep certain larger than life characters at arm's length, but I agree it doesn't quite work here (in particular with Skinner).

[WinterPhoenix]

Oh, well if the food is good that changes... nothing!

Yeah I definitely agree there are times when a certain level of mystery surrounding a character is actually entirely beneficial for said character, and it's usually the more 'powerful' characters for whom this works best. It's striking a balance between 'Aura of Mystery' and 'Wicked Badassery' that is obviously hard to accomplish, you spill too many secrets, open the door on too many accomplishments and it turns an otherwise awesome character into the epitome of the mundane; similarly though it's hard to successfully illustrate how powerful you wish your character to seem if you leave too many of those doors closed, i.e. unreliable pov's, secondhand info etc. It's that balance that just wasn't there for me in this novel. It won't turn me away from reading the remaining - and any forthcoming - ICE novels set in the Malazan world, I definitely felt this was an improvement on NoK for sure; I'm not at all convinced I would be willing to pick up anything ICE wrote outside of the Malazan universe though - no idea if he has written anything else actually? One great positive for me, is what I believe to be just the right amount of co-mingling of characters between authors, there's enough familiarity to ensure you jump right in, not so much as to breed contempt and more importantly he often writes about characters that have only been touched upon or hinted at in Erikson's novels, characters with a mystery that I enjoy seeing unfold - even if I don't always believe it was done in the best way. Plus he has his own list of eminently enjoyable original characters, and while I don't rank any as highly as Kruppe or Quick Ben or Tehol and Bugg, there's nonetheless some greats dotted around - love Temp, Nait was hilarious and a great mixture of bumbling fool and striking capability when it mattered most, Rell was simply utterly kick arse, was great to see Toc the Elder as well - even though his appearance mostly reminded me of how heartbreaking his son's own story is.

Actually that is something I am very interested in, who among the characters were Erikson's and who were Esslemont's in terms of creation and play in the original Role-Playing that built the Malazan universe in which the novels are set, and how many characters were actually created in those gaming sessions, and not while the novels were being written. No idea if such information exists out there, but it would be very enlightening I think.

[worry]

I hope you do continue. I personally like RotCG plenty, but I also think he becomes a better writer as he goes, and even the leap from RotCG to Stonewielder is pretty big (plus SW has a few of my favorite Malazan characters). There are some awesome setpieces in every book to come for you, even if some of ICE's issues persist to one degree or another.

As far as the who-was-who thing there's not a big list afaik (maybe the Wiki folks might want to do a page on that?), but they've both answered some questions about it over the years in interviews. The few I recall off the top of my head are: ICE was Kellanved, SE was Dancer, and another player all together was Karsa (w/ SE running the game).

This post has been edited by Oponn Relationship: 29 April 2016 - 04:40 AM

[Kanese S's]

WinterPhoenix, on 29 April 2016 - 01:54 AM, said:

I take everyone's comments on board, and certainly I will concede that I was perhaps a little hasty, certainly when it comes to Cowl at any rate, taking on Silanah is damn impressive. I still feel as though seeing more of Cowl would have been better, and frankly I'm not sure I'll ever be able to get over how out of the blue Topper's appearance felt to me; this book really did force a serious reevaluation of the power order of certain individuals in my head. Don't get me wrong I understand such things are necessarily subjective, i.e points of view, the effects of time on one's abilities and so on and so forth. And an ordered list of power levels from top to bottom is both impossible and patently unneeded, it just jars when suddenly so many people were more or less powerful than I fought. Despite its tongue in cheek nature, I would bloody love to see that Fatal 4 Way I described above

As for Tayschrenn, he honestly sort of crept up my list of characters I like/love, the enigmatic High Mage was strangely endearing in his general absence for me, I was sad to see him thrust into the maws of chaos and hope most earnestly that we will see a return in true never say die Malazan fashion. Nonetheless I think it was his huge periods of inaction that really led me to underestimate just how strong he actually was, not to mention I would have believed him more capable of seriously harming Kallor in MoI after having read the culminating scenes of this novel - though I guess the poisoned warrens at the time were having a deleterious effect on his erm mage mojo. And all that being said, I still believe that it is incredible an otherwise very well informed Avowed Mage would believe him at all capable of standing toe to toe with Rake (who by the way I am so damn happy to be reading about again, now I am into TtH!!!)

Throwing Wolverine in there is surely unfair, Gorefest?? Though I've got a feeling that considering the seeming extent of Erikson's love for the character it really wouldn't matter who you threw in, he'd probably have Karsa win

A Mallick Rel fan club honestly sounds like my idea of hell, forever tortured by his slimy, unctuous, egomaniacal self, slowy filling with a pervasive fear and disgust at the idea he'll continue to have his way forever

Part of the issue with Cowl is that he's not a POV character, as far as I recall.

So we see him pretty much through the eyes of others. And most of the people who see him while he's plying his trade don't tend to live long.

[the broken]

Worth noting: We do not get Rake's POV in GOTM. We get Baruk's point of view, talking to Rake, who is trying to convince him that he's powerful enough to protect his city.

This is one of my favourite book out of all the Malazan series, including SE's.

I would actually rank Topper over Kalam. Pearl says he might win 'knife to knife' but Topper isn't going to use knives, he'll just skewer him with Kurald Galain, which Otataral won't help with. Topper's battle with Cowl started in Quon and ended in Malaz City. Kalam is probably better in a physical fight, but that doesn't mean he'd win.

The Avowed mage said Tayschrenn 'challenged' Anomander, which, regardless of whether he could beat him toe to toe, is true, he did challenge Anomander, while dealing with his own treacherous allies. Moon's Spawn took too much damage and withdrew which was Tay's goal from the beginning, and Rake couldn't squash Tayschrenn flat and protect his home. By the end of the engagement he was practically alone, but wasn't squashed flat. While being more powerful, Rake lost that engagement.

Topper is specifically waiting for Cowl to make a move, he's been preparing for this fight for a long time. He's likely not on Cowl's radar as a threat.

Skinner is being lazy because his armour is impenetrable.

The thing is, people don't have flat power levels, it varies by the day and how much preparation they've been doing, whether they're paying attention, what else they've been doing that day.