[Lycaenion]

I'm in the middle of my reread of FoD, and I was hit with a thought. Is it just me, or do others here too sense that Malice, especially in the beginning, doesn't seem so malicious? She seems more like a follower of her two sisters, in that she does cruel things and voices cruel thoughts mostly because Spite and Envy do so. She herself mentions that her sisters hurt her, and though she too helped hurt Arathan (that thing with the dog...really? That's just sick, girls), I've got the feeling she helped out because she's scared of Spite and Envy and them enjoying hurting Arathan and hurting her.

I don't know why, but she feels much younger than the other two, more like someone who bullies because otherwise they would be bullied. Her name should be Peer-pressured, not Malice. Of course, after Spite and Envy 'kill' her, all bets are off. But then again, if my sisters did that to me, I'd want to murder them too.

Thoughts?

This post has been edited by Lycaenion: 18 April 2016 - 04:10 PM

[Nevyn]

Lycaenion, on 18 April 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

I'm in the middle of my reread of FoD, and I was hit with a thought. Is it just me, or do others here too sense that Malice, especially in the beginning, doesn't seem so malicious? She seems more like a follower of her two sisters, in that she does cruel things and voices cruel thoughts mostly because Spite and Envy do so. She herself mentions that her sisters hurt her, and though she too helped hurt Arathan (that thing with the dog...really? That's just sick, girls), I've got the feeling she helped out because she's scared of Spite and Envy and them enjoying hurting Arathan and hurting her.

I don't know why, but she feels much younger than the other two, more like someone who bullies because otherwise they would be bullied. Her name should be Peer-pressured, not Malice. Of course, after Spite and Envy 'kill' her, all bets are off. But then again, if my sisters did that to me, I'd want to murder them too.

Thoughts?

No, I just thought of her as the youngest. Early on she seems quite cheerfully mean to her brother without the others there. It is easy to be sympathetic since she ends up the victim, but that doesn't mean she was a good 'person'.

Also, it is possible we read too much into the trait names. All of the sisters have more than their name in bad traits.

[Kanese S's]

I think in part she's been molded by the others. They are incredibly abusive towards here. Both explicitly and alluded to before the story starts.

[Felisin Fatter]

She comes of as younger, but mainly less smart than the others. Envy and Spite seem to be smart sociopaths, Malice a dumb one (so much less frightening). Possibly because malice is a rather simple, childish emotion. And envy and spite are much sneakier and insidious.
Also it might be that the three enhance each others nastiness. So killing Malice was actually a good thing and might lead to the other two becoming lucid enough to stay away from eachother for ever.

[Siergiej]

Rereading Forge of Darkness as well and was also under the impression that Malice was much younger than Spite and Envy. It's implied when they attempt to kill her. Spite and Envy mention that the two of them had stopped growing and that Arathan didn't stop in his growth because of the accident with falling under ice (unless I misundersood?). So they sort of experiment with Malice, in their cruel way.

But I don't think Malice is less... well, malicious than her kin. it's just that she is younger than Envy and Spite so she often falls victim to them. After she is strangled and then wakes up, she crushes a woman's head with a big ass stone for no reason.

[Lycaenion]

Felisin Fatter, on 20 April 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

She comes of as younger, but mainly less smart than the others. Envy and Spite seem to be smart sociopaths, Malice a dumb one (so much less frightening). Possibly because malice is a rather simple, childish emotion. And envy and spite are much sneakier and insidious.
Also it might be that the three enhance each others nastiness. So killing Malice was actually a good thing and might lead to the other two becoming lucid enough to stay away from eachother for ever.

The other girls suddenly did seem a bit more lucid after they killed her. Also more in a panic; which is logical because who knows what Draconus is going to do when he finds out?

Siergiej, on 21 April 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Rereading Forge of Darkness as well and was also under the impression that Malice was much younger than Spite and Envy. It's implied when they attempt to kill her. Spite and Envy mention that the two of them had stopped growing and that Arathan didn't stop in his growth because of the accident with falling under ice (unless I misundersood?). So they sort of experiment with Malice, in their cruel way.

But I don't think Malice is less... well, malicious than her kin. it's just that she is younger than Envy and Spite so she often falls victim to them. After she is strangled and then wakes up, she crushes a woman's head with a big ass stone for no reason.

Well, she had a reason: the doctor did take out her sisters quite spectacularly (even though they so deserved it). And I think after she was killed, she was changed. I dunno, that what it felt like to me. After all, once they die once their true powers are awakened right?

[Siergiej]

More lucid is the last thing I'd say about Spite and Envy after they leave Malice behind. Immediately after they go on a killing spree and discuss destroying Kurald Galain. They just want to watch the world burn.

And if Malice's reason to crush someone's skull is that person's self-defence against her sisters, well... the point about her not being any better still stands

[worry]

It's unclear if Malice is literally younger or just less developed/smaller. Early on the sisters are referred to as triplets, which may or may not be a tossed off thought. If there's any magic to Olar Ethil's nursing them, perhaps Spite and Envy were fed more, and Malice was a relatively neglected runt of the litter.

[Andorion]

Malice is the youngest of the triplets:

Quote

The footsteps approached. His heart thumped in his chest. He snatched his hand away from his mouth, wiped the fingers on his tunic, and stood facing the gap of the stairs.
The figure that climbed into view startled him. One of his half-sisters, the shortest of the three – last from the womb – her face flushed with the effort of the climb, her breath coming in little gasps. Dark eyes found his. ‘Arathan.’
She had never before addressed him. He did not know how to respond.
‘It’s me,’ she said, eyes flaring as if in anger. ‘Malice. Your sister, Malice.’

[worry]

Exactly! Thinking of twins and triplets as younger/older than each other is essentially a bit of goofy (hackneyed) fun, with no true relevance. So Malice being so much smaller is likely an Azathanai thing, rather than a true difference in their ages. And there seems to be a correlation between size and birth order, at least as far as Arathan seems to think.

Not that he's an expert. At this point he doesn't even know how sex works, so that could just be his mnemonic. But if OE nursed the triplets in more or less humanoid form (close enough to be mistaken for a true Dog Runner by Arathan and all of Draconus's staff), she had two breasts, leaving perhaps a scarcity for the third child.

But of course, they're also living personifications of emotions, as Felisin Fatter points out above (though I don't agree necessarily that "malice" is a less mature emotion than envy or spite, but they might manifest different in terms of a person's maturity -- adolescent malice is vague, envy and spite are petty...an adult's envy or spite or malice often have different engines).

[Lycaenion]

Andorion, on 24 April 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

Malice is the youngest of the triplets:

Quote

The footsteps approached. His heart thumped in his chest. He snatched his hand away from his mouth, wiped the fingers on his tunic, and stood facing the gap of the stairs.
The figure that climbed into view startled him. One of his half-sisters, the shortest of the three – last from the womb – her face flushed with the effort of the climb, her breath coming in little gasps. Dark eyes found his. 'Arathan.'
She had never before addressed him. He did not know how to respond.
'It's me,' she said, eyes flaring as if in anger. 'Malice. Your sister, Malice.'

So they were triplets! I wasn't sure if I was misremembering.

Oponn Relationship, on 24 April 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

Exactly! Thinking of twins and triplets as younger/older than each other is essentially a bit of goofy (hackneyed) fun, with no true relevance. So Malice being so much smaller is likely an Azathanai thing, rather than a true difference in their ages. And there seems to be a correlation between size and birth order, at least as far as Arathan seems to think.

Not that he's an expert. At this point he doesn't even know how sex works, so that could just be his mnemonic. But if OE nursed the triplets in more or less humanoid form (close enough to be mistaken for a true Dog Runner by Arathan and all of Draconus's staff), she had two breasts, leaving perhaps a scarcity for the third child.

But of course, they're also living personifications of emotions, as Felisin Fatter points out above (though I don't agree necessarily that "malice" is a less mature emotion than envy or spite, but they might manifest different in terms of a person's maturity -- adolescent malice is vague, envy and spite are petty...an adult's envy or spite or malice often have different engines).

Good points. Makes you wonder what happened to her during the events of FoD, FoL & WiS, because she's not in the main series. TBH, I liked Malice more than her two sisters, until she actually murdered someone (the doctor).

[Kanese S's]

Puberty is such a difficult time.

[Felisin Fatter]

Heh,crazy theory (I haven't read FoL yet btw): Maybe Draconus puts Malice's soul into Arathan and that's how he/she becomes Quick Ben (So QB is a soletaken dragon, but he won't ever veer because that would put Malice in charge.)

[Lycaenion]

Felisin Fatter, on 29 April 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Heh,crazy theory (I haven't read FoL yet btw): Maybe Draconus puts Malice's soul into Arathan and that's how he/she becomes Quick Ben (So QB is a soletaken dragon, but he won't ever veer because that would put Malice in charge.)

Definitely a crazy theory, hahahaha. But I think Draconus wouldn't do that to Arathan.

[Kanese S's]

Felisin Fatter, on 29 April 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Heh,crazy theory (I haven't read FoL yet btw): Maybe Draconus puts Malice's soul into Arathan and that's how he/she becomes Quick Ben (So QB is a soletaken dragon, but he won't ever veer because that would put Malice in charge.)

So Arathan/Malice/Quick Ben sees Mother Dark as stepmom?