[Mentalist]

Ok, so basically I just finished a re-read of FoD. It's my first re-read, and the first time I read FoD it was basically "wait, WHAT???", followed by "holy crap, did that just happen?" followed by "wow, that's brutal", followed by "oh, no SE, WHY?????". and then "OMFGHOLYSHITTHAT'SINSANE". and then it was over.


Needless to say, there were many details that didn't really stick in my mind as well as they should have.
Thus, a refresher re-read. I purposefully staggered this to be a chapter a day affair, and I made notes as I went along. I'm gonna post these, so obviously



FOD SPOILERS AHEAD

And then anyone interested can discuss, disagree, etc.

in italics my thoughts as I went along. Gonna break into 4 parts, b/c formatting.

[Mentalist]

Part one
Chapter one

Arathan- Son of Draconus. 17 y.o, bastard son.
Spite, Envy, Malice- his daughters from a diff. mother. Nursed by a Dog Runner nurse maid.
KG is a "city-state"- how does this make sense? not sure.
Draconus is adopted son of Srela, who elevated House Dracons to a Greater House 500 years ago.
Son/Daughter of MD is an honorific- belongs to all the Greater House nobles.
Tiste believe in "Natural justice".
Tiste at this point are fair-skinned and tall.
Borderswords- function outside the Tiste social hierarchy, have their own ranks.

Chapter 2
Vatha Urusander is Osserc' s father. HE is commander of the legions, hero of the war against the white-faced Forulkan. He has become fascinated by their concepts of justice.
His officer, Hunn Raal plots to have him made King of the Tiste, to displace Draconus at MD's side.
He seeks to use Osserc for that. Osserc is young, untested and has serious confidence issues.
Urusander is based in Neret Sorr to the east of kharkanas- possibly the easternmost tiste holding.
Urusander's origins are unknown, but Hunn Raal has been encouraging rumours that he's old nobility.
Kadaspala Ens is in love with his sister. Urusander struggles with the dilemma of morality and law- law is not absolute, b/c it inevitably bends to those in power (who enforce it)
Cryl Durav hostage in the Enes house, 19 y.o. grew up as friend to Enesdia, but now that they're grown up he's confused.

The 3 Purake brothers are old. Their father, Nimander died recently (few years back).
Azathanai are a separate race- builders, who trade with Tiste, and are believed to have sorcery.
Anomander was made First Son of Darkness, to recognize his father's service.
Hish Tulla head of the Tulla house. former lover of Anomander and Ruin.
Over Andarist's hearthstone, Anomander and Brood made blood-vows. Their extent is unknown, and no one was ale to predict the full extent of the consequences.

Chapter 3
About the Jaghut- used to live in OP, "the Empty City"- got together and built it, then abandoned it once they had the "belated recognition of an economic suicide"
OP abandoned by all, but the Lord of Hate (Gothos?) - the wisest Jaghut who recognized the folly of civilization and preached solitude to the Jaghut- which they adopted as a way of life.

Jheleck- larger branch of the same people as the Jheck.- Jheck broke off as result of civil war. The Jaghut Varandas documented the establishment of Jheck as a separate culture. speculation: the Soletaken trait caused the war--A "pact with the Beast Gods" is mentioned as source of the power.
Azathanai- traders between the inhabited lands.

Tiste politics: Drukorlas family- ancient House. Patriarch - war hero, killed himself a month after the war. Orfantal- young heir, bastard. Sandalath-the daughter- took a lowborn lover. Sandalath was originally hostage to House Purake. Now to be hostage for House Dracons.
More on the Purake- they were proclaimed Andii- as recognition for Nimander Purake's service. Their holdings were forsworn to MD. (so how does Andarist establishing his own House work?)

Hust legion - former Southern Borderswords.

Assail- the priest caste of the Forulkan. "Forulkan justice" - those who reached too high almost fell the highest. their belief- imposition of peace in the name of order. Order born out of fear. Made them xenophobes, b/c strangers presumed to be threat to order and peace. They live south of KG.

Chapter 4
Spinnock Durav- one of the Wardens patrolling the edge of the Vitr. Tulas Shorn-a lowborn cohort commander in Urusander's Legion. Saved SR's life, and elevated to a Great House status by MD. Currently dead to the world- (but he's yet to find the Hounds, and then join the War on Death, if HE is to be believed)
Shenadas Ankhadu (same as Sukul or not? don't know, but apparently she tans where other Tiste burn) was also a captain with Urusander- Along with Infayend Menand and Tathe Lorat- so, probably, these 3 were Urusander's captains, and will become adherents of FL, and then get involved in Shadow)
Vitr- has been growing lately, consuming more of the shore. Azathanai are supposed to know more of it- even be able to contain bits of it. "Azathanai" = "the people who were never born", according to Triss.

Finding of a wingless big lizard- no neck and head- (K'chain?) seemingly coming OUT of the Vitr. And then so does T'riss- who SAYS she doesn't know Azathanai, but sure acts like one.

Hunn Raal begins a conspiracy- using dismissed soldiers of Urusander's legion. And Osserc. Riding towards the Wardens. to convince their head Calat Hustain to join Urusander.

Chapter 5
Azathanai- believe that wealth is a false measure
Grizzin Farl- half-blood Thel Akai. Mate to Killimandros. The only warrior among the Azathanai.

[Mentalist]

Part 2
Chapter 6
There's some intimation that Azathanai sorcery is fed by blood.
Tiste: Scanda Baris- Tiste captain in the Sedis keep, overseeing the Jheleck frontier.

Chapter 7
Urusander's Legion - 7 k troops.
"Denul" - a word of the Shake- when individual communes with nature and feels its focus on oneself.
T'riss speaks of Vitr- "dreams in it are.. unpleasant". She is losing her knowledge, and becoming ignorant of what she was. At the same time she is discovering the world of the flesh.
T'riss is not part of the Vitr, but it's enemy, who fought it for a long time (ages?).
Yan (Sons of the Mother) and Yedan (Daughters of the Father) - 2 branches of Shake monastery
Sharenas finds a dead dragon, and next to it clothing, armour and sword that apparently belonged to T'riss (speculation: the dragon's belly was sliced open. Could T'riss have emerged from within the Eleint?)
Note that "eleint" was originally a name given to small winged lizards that lived in the Blackwood forest. Only after MD began to delve deep into Dark, and found Chaos and spoke of it, did she speak of giant winged beings- and Andii gave them the name "Eleint"'

Chapter 8
Jheleck- soletaken, more beast than person. Originally they were all beasts. Tiste hunted them.
Azathanai meet- Brood heading west, Grizzin heading to the Tiste lands. They speak of K'rul and his "child"
Errastas and Setchul Lath- children of Killmadros and GF. They murdered Hood's wife, Karish, on top of the Spar of the Andii. in doing this, they apparently hope to prevent K'rul from his task (imposing order onto chaos as Warrens?. Errant wants to set MD against K'rul. Given what we are later told about SD and KG being "the twin chambers of K'rul's heart", seems likely. )
Haut is Hood's brother. The realm that Korya and Haut walk is the work of the Azathanai. it seems to be proto-KG, as it's become later.

Chapter 9
Sharenas =/= Sukul. Sukul is her sister, and a guest in Tulla Hold. (then I'm probably wrong about the other 2 as well)
MD's growing power absorbs light around Kharkanas. Her cult promises that eventually all light will be gone, and all Tiste will see in the darkness.
Shake-remnants of an old cult of the river spirit of Dorssan Ryl- may well predate the worship of Darkness. The river spirit was dead- killed by the strictures of the Shake worship. T'riss brought it back to life, and this devastated the cult.

Tiste royal line is at an end. The last queen died in battle. her sister, MD became a goddess. surviving kin are the heads of the Shake monasteries, but they can't have children.

T'riss gave High Priestess Syntara Gift of Light. MD sanctified her temple- becoming passive. Her favoured - Andii are marked by the Night on their skin. T'riss gave Anomander the silver hair.
Hunn Raal and Syntara plan to turn the Legion and Urusander (FL) against all enemies of MD- destroying all competing cults, but w/o proclaiming Urusander a god.

Chapter 10.

Dog-Runners- people of the forest. Driven out by the Tiste.
-Deniers among the Tiste still have some Dog-Runner blood.
-The Ay already exist (existed?) at this time.
When the Tiste drove out the Dog-Runners, their most powerful "witch", Burn remained behind to dream the world. - And now she dreams "of a river"

Isolated Legion troop attacked Orfanthal's caravan- led by Gripp Galas, Anomander's footman. They were afraid of being recognized, but Gripp survived. The first clash of the civil war

[Mentalist]

Part 3
Chapter 11

Azathanai- powerful entities- not yet gods, as they are not worshipped.

"The High King has built a ship" - news that Draconus finds displeasing.
Olar Ethil- the Azathanai of the Dog-Runners. her power is fire- Telas, as the Jheleck call it.
-She is also the mother of Envy, spite and Malice.
Some of the Jaghut rejected Gothos' teaching- they make themselves gods among the Dog-Runners (tyrants?)
Borderswords- will turn against Draconus- will support Urusander and the Liosan.(At least Rint will try to convince them to)

Chapter 12.
Osserc murders a mason's apprentice in a classic ironic tragedy style.
The thing to energize Urusander is the threat of Deniers influencing the Hust, the Borderswords and the Wardens.

Chapter 13
Scara Bandaris' troop is butchering Deniers in the Great Forest- under orders of Hunn Raal, not Scara Bandaris himself.
Spite, Malice and Envy snap and start murdering the household. Spite has power to send dreams. Envy can make people do things. Spite makes them like these things. Malice is a zombie.

Chapter 14
Legion is attacking highborn estates, b/c they are allowing Deniers to live on their lands
House Drukorlat is razed by drunken soldiers.
Draconus' tutor will betray the secter entrances to the Yan monastery to the Legion. He sees it a blood sacrifice to the river god.
Infayen Menand takes control of Scara Bandaris' troop. orders the soldiers to shed Legion insignia. They kill Jaen Enes + Enesdia. Enesdia was raped by most before she dies. Cryl Durav arrives and dies. Kadaspala claws his own eyes out and goes mad.

Chapter 15
Anomander's weapon was forged in the First Forge- where the First Fire has been burning since the times of the Eresal. (Eresal themselves have migrated far south) The sword requires purity of intent
-Andarist was held up from meeting Enesdia by the Anomander who waited for the sword.
Hust Lord goes to see the sword blessed by MD- he will become black-skinned Andii.
The Jheleck hostages are to be given to Tulas to "tame" - (possible Hounds?)
Scara wants no part of the civil war- Him and Urusander are unanimous in this.
Anomander seeks a cause to defend MD. MD is reluctant to "claim Darkness"- b/c she feels it should not be chained,but left to its wandering (did the K'chain cast their Chaos-curse yet?)
one of the lost creation mythis of the Tiste- first heroes slew the many-headed dragon goddess, drank her blood and became as gods- but discord came among them (Tiam, clearly. but how?). The heroes were cast down by the Azathanai.

Andarist's party arrived at the estate. Hish Tulla joined Anomander Anomander named the sword Vengeance. Andarist requested it be named Grief. Anomander's refusal caused eternal schism between the brothers Purake. Silchas Ruin attempted to mend it. Hish Tulla stayed with Andarist to share his grief. Kadaspala is full of madness, but he is already envisioning the god in the skin (that he will make by TTH)

[Mentalist]

Part 4
Chapter 16
Errastas was tasked by Draconus to bind Night- Darkness --he did that- creating the Terondai- the Gate to Darkness. To do so, he murdered Hood's wife Karish- and he used her blood to bind Darkness.
Azathanai worshipped the Azath- and Errastas created the Holds. He also creates the Tiles, imbuing them with the blood-power of his victims.
Jaghut Varandas created the Nacht and the Boles.
Draconus frees Hood. And Hood declares war on death.
Draconus wows to forge a sword (using Vitr) and make of it a prison.
Arathan and Korya meet in Gothos' care.

Chapter 17.
Urusander's Legion dresses as Draconus' Houseblades and assaults the Borderswords at Riven Keep.
Due to Sagander's betrayal, the Yan Monastery in Abara Delack has fallen. He is rewarded with Sheltatha Lore.
Borderswords fall for the ruse- and they ride to war against House Dracons.

Chapter 18
Wardens- Calat Hustain doesn't believe Urusander's ideas. He is willing to support the Monasteries. He wishes to know that the Hust legion will not join the pogroms
-Urusander is amassing the Legion in Neret Sor. Supplies are confiscated and winter threatens to be a hungry one.
Syntara makes Urusander FL. Tulas refuses the gift of light and seeks to flee KG
-Hunn Raal is bringing "gifts" to the Hust Legion
-Sharenas will be Urusander's messenger- the Legion will hunt down the renegade companies.
Ilghast Rend will send the Wardens against the Legion.
Denier refugees are flocking East to the Wardens

Chapter 19
Hunn Raal delivers wine and ale to the Hust. The legion is killed by poison.
Hust armour has no wearers.
Dracons estate is attacked by the Bordeswords. Ivis' heavy cavalry destroys them.
The 3 sisters hide inside the keep. Malice is "rotting" probably the food in her stomach. Spite and Envy put her in the oven so that she will burn to death.

Chapter 20.
Orfantal arrives @ the Citadel. Ruin shows him around. The historian will be teaching him. Ribs the dog adopts Orfantal.
Hish Tulla loves Gripp, but will leave him to go back to her keep. Gripp meant to ask Anomander to let him got to Hish, but he didn't explain why- Anomander needs him, since he doesn't know about Hish + Gripp. When confronted by Hish, Anomander gives Gripp his blessing and releases him from service.
Andarist parted from the brothers- he walks the forest. Anomander goes to find him.
MD met with Farl. Apparently, 2 azathanai ventured to explore the Vitr. (T'riss and Ardata?)
MD wishes Anomander to parley with Urusander. Anomander will defend Kharkanas from him.
Anomander expects the Hust legion to march to Kharkanas' defence. He does not know the legion is dead
Scara Bandaris collects his soldiers and bows out of the war to return to Sedis Hold. Renegades all gather.
Draconus comes back to the Citadel. He unleashes the Terondai- a "gift of love". Darkness fills Kharkanas- the river god dies.
Out of the Vitr, multiple creatures crawl. and die. And then Dragons came from the air above the Vitr. There were nine of them
Endest Silann is posessed by visions and has stigmata, as his hands bleed blood each night. He flees Kharkanas. He meets Anomander. They arrive to Andarist's home to find Brood. MD is now an Azathanai. her power flows from blood. Brood is bound to Rake.
The unleashing of the Terondai created the Gate to Death- and Hood can now have his war.

[Mentalist]

Lingering questions:
1) WHo is the Azathanai responsible for the Jaghut?
2) Only inconsistency with the characters from MBotF so far is Scabby- in particular, his monologue in MT that he's the one who broke the 3 Purake brothers. Andarist's grief wasn't caused by him. Although it's possible the civil war will lead to a reconciliation, followed by a new schism, this one with Blood-eye at it's core.
Or, crazy theory: Scanda Baris adopts Narad, who will become the actual Bloodeye.

[Andorion]

Quote

It's my first re-read, and the first time I read FoD it was basically "wait, WHAT???", followed by "holy crap, did that just happen?" followed by "wow, that's brutal", followed by "oh, no SE, WHY?????". and then "OMFGHOLYSHITTHAT'SINSANE". and then it was over.

To be fair, this is the reaction to practically any SE Malazan book.

Coo, summary Ment. - I totally missed that Denul thing. I am going to hit this thread when doing my own reread

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Thanks Mentalist - I'll pop my thoughts in here once I finish (fast approaching that scene with Enesdia, gulp).

Just realised - this is only the second book I'll be reading in time with you guys (FoD being the first - I picked up Gardens a couple of months before The Crippled God was due out) - I look forward to it!

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 17 April 2016 - 07:09 AM

[Avatar]

Thanks Mentalist, going to use your recap before starting FoL.

[Andorion]

Just started my FoD reread.

Last line of the prologue struck me:

Quote

Remember well this tale I tell, Fisher kel Tath. Should you err, the list-makers will eat you alive.

Is this a quick SE aside at the timeline complaints?

[worry]

Finished my reread last night.

I too noticed that T'riss apparently cut her way out from the dragon's belly (which I totally missed the first time). Pretty intriguing.
Again I initially thought T'riss was K'rul's "child", but if two Azathanai headed to the Vitr I'm not sure how that impacts that.

Olar Ethil is a goddess already. Is that why she's not listed among the Azathanai?
She's also nursed Envy, Spite, Malice, and Burn that we know of. I don't know how to define her aspect, but it's clearly related to fertility/sex/birth/etc. but in an unusually ghastly way. Maybe it's more honest than the storybook version of fertility we get. But there's something to that and her clay dolls and her claims of who she is near the end of MBotF. And in another way it makes sense that she sees herself as a twin to Tiam.

Of course she's an 'undead' twin by that time, and I'm wondering what "undead"ness has to do with this world. There's Soletaken. There's the coming end of Wandering for the Azath. There's Eleint and K'rul's blood. But there's zero mention of the undead. The gate into death is new (one of the 'many' Grizzin Farl thinks about, surely), and perhaps undeath is a byproduct of Hood's War?

Also I had a stray thought that Malice being burned has something to do with the Fire Elemental, but I don't really think so.

Anyway, the character work in this book is so remarkable, and nearly everyone is multifaceted. Once again I had to fight thinking of, for instance, Sharenas and Ilgast Rend as "bad guys" just because they're haughty highborn jerks. Their senses of self make perfect sense, as do their motivations, their virtues, and their mistakes. And that's pretty much true of everyone in the entire book.

First time through I thought the grief/vengeance scene was a little dry, a little too Shakespearen, but I think that was because of the rush you describe in the first post. This time I wasn't numbed by the surprise reactions of the people present, but the full weight of the perspectives hit me. Gripp has almost as much a hard time taking in what's happening as the reader, and it's fantastic.

I think I fell in love with Hish Tulla both times I read this.

[Siergiej]

Isn't Olar Ethil's undead-ness byproduct of the Tellan ritual?

I'm almost done with my reread as well, 100% agree on Grief/Vengeance. It struck me hard the first time, but I got to really appreciate how it's set up and narrated on the reread. I still think Anomander's acting so ruthless towards Andarist is somewhat out of character compared to the Mary Sue we've seen in Toll to the Hounds. It does happen 300k years later tho, so probably not that surprising.

+1 for team Hish Tulla

I made a ton of notes on Kindle in Forge of Darkness and a lot of them is speculation on Arathan and Korya. Trying to figure out Ruthan Gudd and Quick Ben connection real hard.

[worry]

Yeah, but my point isn't about Olar Ethil in particular. Undeadness doesn't exist yet, as a possibility, as far as I can tell.

[Siergiej]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. During the scene with Draconus and Feren's impregnation (is that what happened there? I'm not sure I understood the scene and the purpose of their visit to the tomb), the Thel Akai queen is described a corpse and then it moans. And shortly after we get Grizzin Farl's POV and he thinks:

Quote

Well to the west, a Thel Akai queen had been stirred from her eternal slumber, and her mood was still foul, no matter the efforts at placation.

So yeah, she looks pretty much undead Also, Malice is undead as well, the last we see her, though I don't know if that counts with her being Azathanai. I don't think undeadness is not a thing in that world. We just haven't seen much of it. In Midnight Tides Lether also does not have a gate/hold/warren of death and it doesn't stop the undead from hanging around

[Andorion]

About halfway into the second chapter.

This book is impossible to read fast. There is foreshadowing everywhere

"There will be peace" inscribed on the castle of House Dracons. Didn't Draconus at one point remark that he forged Dragnipur to impose peace?

Kadaspala musing on how he likes to look into the eyes of people.

Enesdia's dress being as red as blood.

Every other para I have to stop and think


Kadaspala has a very funny little discussion regarding art, critics, law and opinions with Urusander.

Urusander is studying the laws of the Forulkan trying to understand justice. He will lead the Liosan. We know how obsessed they got with law and justice.

[Mentalist]

I think the "undead twin" is brought up in terms of OE's size - in her veered form, she's supposedly the biggest Eleint, and her size rivals that of Tiam.

[worry]

Siergiej, on 23 April 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

I wouldn't be so sure of that. During the scene with Draconus and Feren's impregnation (is that what happened there? I'm not sure I understood the scene and the purpose of their visit to the tomb), the Thel Akai queen is described a corpse and then it moans. And shortly after we get Grizzin Farl's POV and he thinks:

Quote

Well to the west, a Thel Akai queen had been stirred from her eternal slumber, and her mood was still foul, no matter the efforts at placation.

So yeah, she looks pretty much undead Also, Malice is undead as well, the last we see her, though I don't know if that counts with her being Azathanai. I don't think undeadness is not a thing in that world. We just haven't seen much of it. In Midnight Tides Lether also does not have a gate/hold/warren of death and it doesn't stop the undead from hanging around

All that's happening in that tomb is a pregnancy test. Death reacts to the life within Feren's womb -- it's a Thel Akai corpse, and it does seem that Draconus is not just relying on his own power -- he fears something. Draconus stays behind to make "propitiation" or whatever so maybe there's something more to it, or maybe he's just doing a more general "sorry I desecrated a burial place" ritual to the Thel Akai.

But I do take your point that Malice is seemingly undead. But whether that's a new or old phenomenon, we wouldn't really be able to tell by her example either way. The triplets certainly have no idea. I dunno, maybe it's been around. And the River God is resurrected. But this is an age of firsts. All the Shake and Denier worship in the world didn't bring it back, but an Azathanai from beyond the Vitr did. And we also know that post-Terondai Hood can find the gate of Death. It's no surprise that the Jaghut underworld's main feature in the series is a bridge. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ We'll see we'll see!

Re: Olar Ethil, I know when she originally makes this claim she's referring to size, but since then we learn that she's a megalomaniac who takes credit for a whole host of female deities, and then in FoD we learn that she really does have a motherhood aspect of some sort. We also don't learn till later in MBotF exactly how T'iam is the mother of all dragons, when she nearly forms. How different is that from OE splitting her belly open and pulling out figurines. Maybe there's a literal connection -- there might be, since OE is spiteful of her rivals and envies the attention they receive, and T'iam would be the ultimate motherhood rival -- but even if there's no direct connection the parallels are fascinating. As perhaps might be any similarities to the Mahybe process.

[Andorion]

Just finished reading the encounter between Hish Tulla and the Purake brothers. The sheer difference in how Hish Tulla regards herself vs how Silchas or Anomander sees her is quite moving. Also I really oved reading this scene, the three brothers relations uncontaminated by rage or bitterness, Anomander grumbling over something as mundane as the cost of a mason.

Also SE is having some fun here. He has already described the Tiste as fair, now he takes special space to describe Anomander as having skin the colour of pale gold. The contrast with GotM could not be more stark.

Also this

Quote

‘We shall arrive with steam rising from us,’ Silchas observed, laughing, ‘like children born of chaos.’

Holy foreshadowing Batman!

[Siergiej]

As for foreshadowing, one thing that just occured to me...

In The Crippled God, Hood says to one of the Forkrul Assail I have had enough of your justice and then proceeds to beat them to death. Now we know from Forge of Darkness that Urusander is crazy about justice and has been spending a lot of time reading FA's works about it. And it's Syntara's speech about justice that pushes him to accept her gift of Light. So if the Dark/Light conflict ends with the destruction of the whole realm... Hood's words acquire a lot more meaning

This post has been edited by Siergiej: 24 April 2016 - 04:01 PM

[worry]

Yah, hopefully we get to see a Forulkan or two up close in FoL. Maybe even one that doesn't fit the mold.

One thing that occurred to me is that there are a number of characters in FoD who would make pretty proper adherents to the Crippled God if he had been around back then.