[Kanese S's]

In the various military forces we see in the series, there are all sorts of troops, though most are fairly familiar at least in role to what you tend to see in the ancient world. Various types of infantry, such as marines, heavies, regulars, etc. Quite a bit of cavalry (though Letherii cavalry has been noted as being terrible, while the Malazans, somewhat like the RL Persians and Romans, incorporate various nomadic tribes from their lands into their armies as cavalry), other fancy things like explosives, stuff that obviously was not a part of any RL ancient military like the Moranth with their winged mounts, etc.

But why no war elephants?

I got to thinking about this, and it occurred to me that I don't think I've seen any elephants or the like in Wu. Maybe they're extinct, overhunted by the Imass long ago? Or maybe they never existed in the first place?

Maybe I'm misremembering, as it has been a while since I read some parts of the series.

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 27 February 2016 - 01:30 AM

[Kanese S's]

Also, yes, I realize that this thread may come as a disappointment compared to my previous threads about Tiste nipples and Nightchill's preference for Toblakai-sized members.

[Andorion]

We get repeated references to large beasts being hunted to extinction. Elephant analogues may have gone down this path

The Malazan army would not really have much use for elephants. Munition armed marines are the best shock troops they have.

[worry]

Wow I was just wondering the same thing a couple nights ago (because of the elephants in WoT), and because I was considering rereading Blood and Bone soon, which has at least some SE Asian DNA in its world-building. If elephants existed, that's the book they'd appear in -- or there would be Soletaken elephants elsewhere. I don't think even the Imass have a mammoth/mastodon bonecaster.

[Kanese S's]

Blood and Bone is the one I feel like I may be misremembering. It's been a while since I read it.

I guess maybe they just never existed in this world or went extinct before the Imass figured out bonecasting, or I would expect to see them in the Refugium or something.

[Felisin Fatter]

I don't recall any elephant, mammoth, rhino or hippo. No whales or dolphins either I think... (And I always pay attention to the animals.) There may have been a mention of ancient ivory though...I'm not sure. I guess there just aren't any on Wu. Or maybe they went extinct soon after some people managed to transform themselves into packs of giant wolves? Or maybe the Deragoth ate them all?

Btw, I would love to be a soletaken elephant. It would help with so many tasks. (Now imagine a D'ivers woolly mammoth )

[Khazduk]

Felisin Fatter, on 27 February 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

Btw, I would love to be a soletaken elephant. It would help with so many *tusks. (Now imagine a D'ivers woolly mammoth )

[Siergiej]

Quote

I don't recall any elephant, mammoth, rhino or hippo. No whales or dolphins either I think...

Mammoths are not mentioned by name, but implied to have existed in Midnight Tides, when Sengar brothers reach the snow plains. Something about huge, tusked animals. Dolphins are named in MT in some random musings by Kuru Qan:


Propitiation was aversion, a prayer to pass unnoticed, to escape untaken. Blood before the bow, dolphins dancing to starboard and a gob of spit to ride blessed winds. The left hand scrubs, the right hand dries. Wind widdershins on the cleats, sun-bleached rags tied to the sea-anchor’s chain. A score of gestures, unquestioned and bound in tradition, all to slide the seas in peace.

[Felisin Fatter]

Siergiej, on 06 March 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

Quote

I don't recall any elephant, mammoth, rhino or hippo. No whales or dolphins either I think...

Mammoths are not mentioned by name, but implied to have existed in Midnight Tides, when Sengar brothers reach the snow plains. Something about huge, tusked animals. Dolphins are named in MT in some random musings by Kuru Qan:


Propitiation was aversion, a prayer to pass unnoticed, to escape untaken. Blood before the bow, dolphins dancing to starboard and a gob of spit to ride blessed winds. The left hand scrubs, the right hand dries. Wind widdershins on the cleats, sun-bleached rags tied to the sea-anchor's chain. A score of gestures, unquestioned and bound in tradition, all to slide the seas in peace.

Awesome info! That actually supports the theory that Jheleck or related people eradicated the mammoths by being super-efficient hunters, if the bones are in their territory. And it rekindles the hope for a mammoth-bonecaster

Is there ever any mention of camels or similar animals? Those were also used by armies in history, right?

[Kanese S's]

Felisin Fatter, on 07 March 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Siergiej, on 06 March 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

Quote

I don't recall any elephant, mammoth, rhino or hippo. No whales or dolphins either I think...

Mammoths are not mentioned by name, but implied to have existed in Midnight Tides, when Sengar brothers reach the snow plains. Something about huge, tusked animals. Dolphins are named in MT in some random musings by Kuru Qan:


Propitiation was aversion, a prayer to pass unnoticed, to escape untaken. Blood before the bow, dolphins dancing to starboard and a gob of spit to ride blessed winds. The left hand scrubs, the right hand dries. Wind widdershins on the cleats, sun-bleached rags tied to the sea-anchor's chain. A score of gestures, unquestioned and bound in tradition, all to slide the seas in peace.

Awesome info! That actually supports the theory that Jheleck or related people eradicated the mammoths by being super-efficient hunters, if the bones are in their territory. And it rekindles the hope for a mammoth-bonecaster

Is there ever any mention of camels or similar animals? Those were also used by armies in history, right?

Camels have been used by armies in the past, yes. Both as pack animals and as cavalry.

[Felisin Fatter]

Ah, i found some references. This is MT chapter 5. Udinaas has a vision of the frozen past / inside the icefields / whatever. He sees there herds of "Massive brown-furred creatures, trapped standing upright, green plants in their mouths. (...) Ivory tusks and glittering eyes. (...) wolves, running alongside an enormous horned beast." Could be woolly mammoths and a woolly rhino, sounds pretty similar at the least. Udinaas has no name for them, so they are likely long extinct. Looks like Gothos' magic eradicated them on Lether.

In the same chapter, Mayen is described as wearing whale-bone jewelry.

[Gorefest]

There is a reference to elephants in TtH as well. When Gruntle has one of his Trake dreams, it reads: "If she discovered him she would flee. But then, the only beast that wouldn't was the elephant, and he had no interest in hunting that wise leviathan with its foul sense of humour."

This event takes place at a time when Wu only has Jaghut, FA and K'Chain Che'Malle as denizens and the first half-humans (I assume that refers to the Eres, not the humans/Imass off-sping). So that would make it, what? 3-400,000 years before Burn's sleep at least? So elephants could have died out a long, long time ago.

However, if that is the case, is Gruntle musing with Trake's memories? And, if so, why does he not stop to wonder about elephants and how he as a human does not know about them? The above phrasing would suggest that 'human' Gruntle does know about elephants, otherwise his human memories surely would conflict and war with Trake's memories....

[Felisin Fatter]

There are elephants! Or mammoths, at least. When Trull and his brothers exit the ice fields, they witness a dozen of them coming out to drink from a lake. Huge, brown furred, with long tusks and a sinuous long snout. (The Arapay had told them they still existed, but they had not believed those stories.)

@Gorefest: Trake probably dates back to Dessimbelackis' empire, which is many millennia after Burn's sleep. So if Gruntle/Trake know what an Elephant is, it would seem likely they still exist or went extinct not that long ago. Which is true, since, see above!

[Kanese S's]

Odd that they're not being used by any of the societies as either work animals or war mounts.