[Morgoth]

It's not something you're required to bring up either. I hold off on saying anything about my divorce until, well, there have been dates and sex and I feel I might want to keep going down that path with that person.

There's nothing dishonest about it. Talking about your ex on the first few dates is not something you should do anyway, you know, as a rule of thumb.

This post has been edited by Morgoth: 17 December 2015 - 09:16 PM

[Arthur Dayne]

Depends on the site. If you're on a site where the expectation is long term, better to let that one be known right off so you weed out the intolerant people. If it's tinder, I wouldn't bother.

[Gust Hubb]

Haha. Ironically, I feel like you throw kids into the mix and everything becomes that much more revealed. How do you hide young kiddos, especially when you feel threatened by them being taken from you. Not that my wife is, but I feel threatened by the courts. Plus, a lot of you on the forum know me. Do I seem like the type to conceal much?

[Arthur Dayne]

Once again, depends on the site as to how much you need to disclose to anyone. If you want to be serious about finding someone long term, then be forward about kids and the divorce if that's the road you take. It will save you alot of issues. If it's just casual, there are so many ways to get around it all. Most people on casual sites don't even want to know to begin with. Besides that, you aren't going to want to introduce your kids to just anyone. It will just confuse them and that's alot for younger kids. My son only met one girlfriend, and that was after I had dated her for a year. He met my now wife after two years of dating her only because he finally flew out here to visit.

Courts are normally only as threatening as you and your wife make them to be honest. The only time I had any major overreach by my court system was over the state healthcare and child support requirements. Everything else in my divorce was spelled out between her and I and they just approved our plans. Marital assets, parenting plan, all that. They would (most of the time) rather you came to your own consensus on how to divide all of it and just approve the plan. Where people screw up is when one parent gets greedy on time with kids or money or they want the house or a car or something. If you can't agree then make sure your rights are protected. When/if it gets ugly you don't want to be defending yourself against the courts.

[Una]

I don't understand why you are talking about dating at this point. It just seems so early and you've got other things to worry about. Dating is exhausting!

Just because she's been thinking this for a while and thinks she's ready to see other people doesn't mean you have to do the same. Figure out what your life is going to look like single for the next little while, what with finances and parenting and where you are going to live, before you even think of throwing another person into the mix.

My ex had left for about a year and a half before I was truly ready to meet people. And by "meet", I didn't even mean dating. I meant "meet people of the opposite sex and have interesting conversation, just to see if I can manage that".

Don't concern yourself too much about whether it's harder to date with kids. I know I didn't believe it when people told me, "It's a modern world now. People don't care as much now. It's very common.", because even though I'm not religious, I was raised super traditional Asian. My mother basically hammered at me from the time I was about 8 years old that no good man from a decent family will ever want a girl who has lived with another man before marriage. She actually used the phrase "worthless on the marriage market". You should have seen the back-pedalling when she found out how my ex was treating me. I was trying to get him to stay at one point because I honestly thought no one else would want me.

What actually happened was that around the 18 month mark, just as I was feeling better and thinking I would be ready to start meeting people ( I even mentioned to family and friends that they could feel free to start setting me up), suitors started coming out of the woodwork. These were people who absolutely knew I had a kid because, like any parent, I'll bring him up in regular conversation as part of what goes on in my life. My cousin said the same thing happened to her and she had a 2 year old kid too. It was like all these guys she already knew were waiting around for when she would be available. We both found it something of a surprise considering we live in a society that says that single mother = failure. Instead, I almost got the feeling that the men would see how we were with our children and something in their brains ticked off "nurturing", "patient", "cool under pressure", and "prepared for anything" and certain people are drawn to that.

You don't need to hide anything. You've got nothing to hide. Anyone not interested in dating a guy with kids? Doesn't make her a bad person, but it's an bad match and you can save time and trouble weeding that out from the beginning. So don't worry about that for now. Plenty of time to deal with that later.

[amphibian]

Also repeatedly expressing skepticism and annoyance at the process of figuring out how to make online dating work for you is somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Embrace it as a game. Try to get good at it in a way that leads you to real connections. If it doesn't, after some serious efforts and learning cycles, then put the game away and find something else.

Tinder led me to a wonderful woman I dated for a year and we parted quasi-amicably (distance, not strong enough connection to go the marriage path). It also led me to a date and hookup so weird that I uninstalled the app and focused solely on real world encounters. Now I'm seeing a tall redhead who is pretty awesome. We'll have fun for a short term until she moves far to the west.

It may be scary to stifle the annoyance, the apprehension, and the uncertainty, as you navigate this. But being enthusiastic about figuring out how you can make this work for you will help all involved navigate this process.

[worry]

Try stealing your wife's dates too.

[Gust Hubb]

worry, on 18 December 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

Try stealing your wife's dates too.

No no worry, I'm incapable of making them straight. I will be generating a long line of potential dates for her. King Midas and the Gay Touch.

[Gust Hubb]

Una, on 17 December 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

I don't understand why you are talking about dating at this point. It just seems so early and you've got other things to worry about. Dating is exhausting!

Just because she's been thinking this for a while and thinks she's ready to see other people doesn't mean you have to do the same. Figure out what your life is going to look like single for the next little while, what with finances and parenting and where you are going to live, before you even think of throwing another person into the mix.

My ex had left for about a year and a half before I was truly ready to meet people. And by "meet", I didn't even mean dating. I meant "meet people of the opposite sex and have interesting conversation, just to see if I can manage that".

Don't concern yourself too much about whether it's harder to date with kids. I know I didn't believe it when people told me, "It's a modern world now. People don't care as much now. It's very common.", because even though I'm not religious, I was raised super traditional Asian. My mother basically hammered at me from the time I was about 8 years old that no good man from a decent family will ever want a girl who has lived with another man before marriage. She actually used the phrase "worthless on the marriage market". You should have seen the back-pedalling when she found out how my ex was treating me. I was trying to get him to stay at one point because I honestly thought no one else would want me.

What actually happened was that around the 18 month mark, just as I was feeling better and thinking I would be ready to start meeting people ( I even mentioned to family and friends that they could feel free to start setting me up), suitors started coming out of the woodwork. These were people who absolutely knew I had a kid because, like any parent, I'll bring him up in regular conversation as part of what goes on in my life. My cousin said the same thing happened to her and she had a 2 year old kid too. It was like all these guys she already knew were waiting around for when she would be available. We both found it something of a surprise considering we live in a society that says that single mother = failure. Instead, I almost got the feeling that the men would see how we were with our children and something in their brains ticked off "nurturing", "patient", "cool under pressure", and "prepared for anything" and certain people are drawn to that.

You don't need to hide anything. You've got nothing to hide. Anyone not interested in dating a guy with kids? Doesn't make her a bad person, but it's an bad match and you can save time and trouble weeding that out from the beginning. So don't worry about that for now. Plenty of time to deal with that later.

I guess part of the reason I am talking about dating is that part of me is ready. I have dated a grand total of 3 women my entire life, been married 9 years, and have had sex with only one woman. What I was before my marriage and what I am now is entirely different. One could say that I married too early and didn't "grow up" before making that huge life decision. I would quip that going to a Methodist Undergrad eventually transformed me from a bible thumping, hyper religious nut (praying every free moment, bible reading daily, asking for forgiveness more than the best Catholic you know) into a stone cold agnostic (at least, maybe atheist); and likewise, being married has transformed me through the might of my wife's absolute logic, pragmatism and willingness to use the psychology/psychiatry field to our advantage (much like exercising, mental and relationship health are boosted by having a trainer).

Sometimes I feel that of all the people I know, I am one of the greatest changers and adapters. When you are Asperger's, OCD and at life's beck and call (never had control of where I'm going, carried on the current of change), you adapt.

I am nothing of what I was, and as my wife has finally come into her own, I have suspected things may come to this and mentally planned accordingly. The revelations have occurred within weeks, but I think I knew in some part of me that the probabilities of this happening were increasing.

[Abyss]

This probably goes without saying but hey i'll say it... put the kids first. The process of whatever happens next is going to take years, not weeks, not months, years, and the impact it will have on your kids, positive or negative, is massive.


Yes, you're looking at this new single life and dating and all kinds of crazy intimidating great shite stuff and mostly the possible sex to come, but... and this is a HUGE 'But' and i have seen so many many people fuck it up... the kids are the priority. Hers too, but you can't control what she does right or wrong. Parents in this type of situation often get caught up in a kind of desperate 'i don't want to be alone/why should i suffer/it's my life too/revenge dating/woohooo orgies!' and the kids receive less when they need more.


I don't know you beyond your forum pixels Gust, but i do know the situation you are in and the potential for anyone to fuck it up is huge. Don't. When in doubt, or even when not in doubt, put the kids first. They need thir parents more than their parents need anything this situation raises. Anything.

[Una]

Abyss, on 18 December 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

This probably goes without saying but hey i'll say it... put the kids first. The process of whatever happens next is going to take years, not weeks, not months, years, and the impact it will have on your kids, positive or negative, is massive.

Yes, you're looking at this new single life and dating and all kinds of crazy intimidating great shite stuff and mostly the possible sex to come, but... and this is a HUGE 'But' and i have seen so many many people fuck it up... the kids are the priority. Hers too, but you can't control what she does right or wrong. Parents in this type of situation often get caught up in a kind of desperate 'i don't want to be alone/why should i suffer/it's my life too/revenge dating/woohooo orgies!' and the kids receive less when they need more.

Yes, yes, yes! Exactly. Spot on. You need to focus on this.

Yourself, your kids. Focus on that for the next few months at least. I think a year is more realistic. This may have been brewing for a while, but the impact is still fresh. I strongly advise that you let the dust settle before you go around kicking up any more. Kids need to know that you are going to be there for them no matter what happens between you and Mama. You have to demonstrate that over time before they can begin to believe it, because what is happening now is such a big shake-up. The last thing they need is to feel like they have to compete with your dating life for your time and affection.

You deserve love too, but that will come. I get that a part of you is ready to try something different and see what else is out there, but the whole of you needs to be ready and from the sound of it there are a lot of things that need to be put in order first. This isn't like the first time around and, as unfair as it may seem, it's not just about you any more. You have kids and what you do now will affect them at a very formative stage of their lives. The stakes are much, much higher.

[worry]

Gust Hubb, on 18 December 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

worry, on 18 December 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

Try stealing your wife's dates too.

No no worry, I'm incapable of making them straight. I will be generating a long line of potential dates for her. King Midas and the Gay Touch.

Binary thinking, GH. There are 3000 sexual orientations and you're bound to have a shot with some of them!

[Abyss]

Una, on 18 December 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

...Kids need to know that you are going to be there for them no matter what happens between you and Mama. You have to demonstrate that over time before they can begin to believe it, because what is happening now is such a big shake-up. The last thing they need is to feel like they have to compete with your dating life for your time and affection.
...isn't like the first time around and, as unfair as it may seem, it's not just about you any more. You have kids and what you do now will affect them at a very formative stage of their lives. The stakes are much, much higher.

This.Utterly this. A dating life is irrelevant when the family is being broken up.

[Gust Hubb]

I don't think that there will be a problem with the kids being loved and cared for. I am more worried that like that Asian (don't remember which country) fable, we will be pulling the kids in half. We are both worried of losing them (even though neither of us should be, irrational fear and all).

This is a different situation. This is not a yelling, screaming, hating divorce. It certainly isn't a garden of roses (when is change ever desirable to people, answer honestly...), but in the end, I think it is a good thing.

My kids are 4 and 2. The 4 year old is of the most concern (the 2 year old won't remember). But again, it is all in how one spins the story. Is this a tragedy, a failure of mommy and daddy to get along, to love each other, to be with each other till the bitter end. Is mommy defective because she is a lesbian. Is daddy evil because he wants to move on to someone that is not mommy. That is what I hear when I hear of divorce: failure, recrimination, brokenness, anger.

But why? Why does it have to be that way? Why do my boys need to see the end of the marriage as a tragedy when more realistically it is a change, even a positive one, one that will allow mommy to be un-smoothered by someone who doesn't hold the same interests or orientation as her. A change that will allow daddy to have a second chance at a relationship when he has changed so much from when he first married mommy. Why is this a tragedy? Why should the kids be given the words and body language that this is wrong, a necessary evil?

I think the trauma that has been seen and experienced is relevant, and the warnings are kind and sobering. I think this will hurt, a lot. But I want it to feel natural to some extent. The kids have to grow up, the world will not baby them. They need, and will get, security for now, but not blindfolds. We are not parents that rush over to every fall, every scrape, every injury. Mommy and daddy are getting a divorce, it is not easy, it is necessary, and in the end, it is good.

[Abyss]

if you and hopefully their mother handle this right they will understand everything eventually and maybe accept that this is better and right, But that isn't now or soon and no you can't protect them from the the world, but you can protect them from you or her putting yourselves first.
Im not a proponent of people staying together just for the sake of the children, but I am wholly in favour of people shelving their own needs for that reason.

[Kanese S's]

Gust Hubb, on 18 December 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Una, on 17 December 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

I don't understand why you are talking about dating at this point. It just seems so early and you've got other things to worry about. Dating is exhausting!

Just because she's been thinking this for a while and thinks she's ready to see other people doesn't mean you have to do the same. Figure out what your life is going to look like single for the next little while, what with finances and parenting and where you are going to live, before you even think of throwing another person into the mix.

My ex had left for about a year and a half before I was truly ready to meet people. And by "meet", I didn't even mean dating. I meant "meet people of the opposite sex and have interesting conversation, just to see if I can manage that".

Don't concern yourself too much about whether it's harder to date with kids. I know I didn't believe it when people told me, "It's a modern world now. People don't care as much now. It's very common.", because even though I'm not religious, I was raised super traditional Asian. My mother basically hammered at me from the time I was about 8 years old that no good man from a decent family will ever want a girl who has lived with another man before marriage. She actually used the phrase "worthless on the marriage market". You should have seen the back-pedalling when she found out how my ex was treating me. I was trying to get him to stay at one point because I honestly thought no one else would want me.

What actually happened was that around the 18 month mark, just as I was feeling better and thinking I would be ready to start meeting people ( I even mentioned to family and friends that they could feel free to start setting me up), suitors started coming out of the woodwork. These were people who absolutely knew I had a kid because, like any parent, I'll bring him up in regular conversation as part of what goes on in my life. My cousin said the same thing happened to her and she had a 2 year old kid too. It was like all these guys she already knew were waiting around for when she would be available. We both found it something of a surprise considering we live in a society that says that single mother = failure. Instead, I almost got the feeling that the men would see how we were with our children and something in their brains ticked off "nurturing", "patient", "cool under pressure", and "prepared for anything" and certain people are drawn to that.

You don't need to hide anything. You've got nothing to hide. Anyone not interested in dating a guy with kids? Doesn't make her a bad person, but it's an bad match and you can save time and trouble weeding that out from the beginning. So don't worry about that for now. Plenty of time to deal with that later.

I guess part of the reason I am talking about dating is that part of me is ready. I have dated a grand total of 3 women my entire life, been married 9 years, and have had sex with only one woman. What I was before my marriage and what I am now is entirely different. One could say that I married too early and didn't "grow up" before making that huge life decision. I would quip that going to a Methodist Undergrad eventually transformed me from a bible thumping, hyper religious nut (praying every free moment, bible reading daily, asking for forgiveness more than the best Catholic you know) into a stone cold agnostic (at least, maybe atheist); and likewise, being married has transformed me through the might of my wife's absolute logic, pragmatism and willingness to use the psychology/psychiatry field to our advantage (much like exercising, mental and relationship health are boosted by having a trainer).

Sometimes I feel that of all the people I know, I am one of the greatest changers and adapters. When you are Asperger's, OCD and at life's beck and call (never had control of where I'm going, carried on the current of change), you adapt.

I am nothing of what I was, and as my wife has finally come into her own, I have suspected things may come to this and mentally planned accordingly. The revelations have occurred within weeks, but I think I knew in some part of me that the probabilities of this happening were increasing.

Maybe you think you are ready.

But I would bet good money that you're actually not. Because that's not how breakups work, generally. You aren't magically ready to date just cause you're single again.

[Kanese S's]

Briar King, on 19 December 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

I'm not ready to date 5 yrs later.

Unfortunately I saw a bunch of cool posts over on the book threads and used up all my rep, or I would rep this.

[Abyss]

Also.., sorry, not picking on you, but will point out that this....

Gust Hubb, on 19 December 2015 - 03:40 AM, said:

... (the 2 year old won't remember). ...

...is wrong.


I'm not a child psyanything, but i know enough to know that your 2 year old knows routines, knows who is around when, knows the family environment well enough to recognize, unconsciously if nothing else, that their nice steady/stable/safe/whatever little world has been nudged, if not wholly knocked off its balance.

Also, if the 4 year doesn't blame themself, they may blame the 2 year old for being more recently on the scene when things went off, which impacts the younger kid whatever else they may be aware of.

You're in deep dark territory here and all kinds of things can go wrong. None of them have to, but that's on you to ensure (and on their mom but you can't assume she'll do her part).

[Egwene]

Whatever the reason for a break-up - it is the end of an era. Even if you half anticipated it, it takes time to adjust to the change. When you have been with someone a long time, their presence influences what you do, how you do it even how you see the world. As you said yourself - you are not the person you were before you met your wife. Now that she is leaving your immediate life, you should try and find out who you are in your own right. By all means go out and enjoy company but going out determined to find Mrs. Right at this point? No. For one it will make you appear desperate which will make all the girls run a mile - for the other - the person you are at the moment is very much shaped by those years with your wife. You want to meet a new woman without the burdens from that relationship.

It will take about two years, give or take a month... before you suddenly look at yourself and you see only yourself, without the shadow of the other person being there as well. Obviously everyone is different but it is what someone told me once and it proved to be true. I have since observed it with others... whether break-up or bereavement - it seems to take a couple of years before people can honestly say that they have found themselves again, that they have assimilated what has happened. I am not saying you should wait that long to start dating again - but you should definitely take things easy for a while - don't get fixated on being with someone as being the only way to be happy.

Where your kids are concerned... as long as both, mum and dad are still there for them and don't use the kids as a means to get at each other, they can be fine. As Abyss was saying - even the two year old will sense that things have changed and if there is resentment in the air. It is up to you both to give those kids tons of reassurance that they are loved by both of you and, very importantly, that the reason that mum and dad are not living together anymore is nothing whatsoever to do with them. May sound silly but all it would take is for the kid to have been told off for something minor just prior to parents having a disagreement and the kid might think 'it is all my fault'.

One parent disappearing, so to speak, to 'make a clean break'? Doesn't work. Even when they are ninety those kids will still be able to recall that sense of having been abandoned. I know more than one adult who is bitter about having been left by one parent. They are still asking themselves 'Why did he/she leave me as well? What did I do to deserve that?' They feel unwanted by one parent. Doesn't matter how you dress it up, that is what the child sees.

A break-up is never simple - however amicably. Don't rush things.

[Morgoth]

I don't know about that. My parents divorced when I was three. It was a peacefull divorce and they remained friendly. I lived mainly with my mother and visited my father every other week end.

I never felt abandoned. Never felt betrayed. I certainly did not blame my parents for what happened.

There is no rule here about what will happen or how the people involved will feel. All one can do is act according to ones principles.