[Aptorian]

I agree, Cap 2 did a better job of portraying Cap.

But like I mentioned on the other page. My problem with Cap 2 was with SHIELD, Cap 1 shat on Captain America, Cap 2 in my opinion shits on SHIELD. Hell, Avengers 1 and 2 does it as well, lets not even mention that garbage TV show. But I hated how simple they made the take over/corruption of SHIELD appear. I don't care how long they'd been working in the shadows, taking out SHIELD should never be that easy. Even good guy SHIELD Agents are double crossing, back-up plan planning, secret hoarding spooks that suspect anyone and everything.

Yes Nick Fury is the best of that lot but he would have had a network to crush stuff like this.

What my real issue is that I hate the compacted time lines the films have to work on. I wouldn't had minded SHIELD collapsing in on itself say in another couple phases of Marvel films, with plenty of hints of secret wars going on inside SHIELD and the government. This felt rushed.

And, looping back on this new film, I think Civil War will be bad simple because they have not had the time to make the conflicts and the tension seem organic, rather than manufactured. I mean half of Avengers 2 was pretty much made to foreshadow Civil War, but in a very rushed fashion.

Comic book Civil War was an epic culmination of 5-10 years of Marvel events that effected everything and drew upon hundreds of characters. For movie Civil War to feel meaningful I feel like it should happen after the films establish more Marvel Characters and solidify the roles they play, the power structure, so that when Civil War comepletely tears everything apart you see how far the nation falls and how hard they have to fight to restore order. Civil War itself should be a much bigger event than the Avengers series.

To me Civil War should be introduced after Infinity Gauntlet finishes. Not before.

[Gnaw]

I haven't read the comics so I don't have much much sentiment when it comes to canon. But I read an analysis of the trailer that brought up an idea about how they're going to frame the issue. It was based upon the idea that one of the themes of the movie is going to be Cap's bromance with Bucky and Tony Stark. Choosing the ex over the current one.

I'll check my browser history to see if I can find the article.

[HoosierDaddy]

I think it looks awesome.....

[Illuyankas]

Comic Civil War sucked. I hope the movie disregards the worst parts (no extradimension Guantanamo Bays to lock your friends up indefinitely or nanomachine-controlled villain slave corps please) and does a better job of showing both sides as having valid reasons to act as they do. By which I mean showing both sides.

[Aptorian]

But then we wouldn't get Dark Reigh. Or Norman Osborne as Patriot Ironman.

[HoosierDaddy]

Good. That sounds stupid.

[QuickTidal]

The bones of Civil War (that of rival factions within the superhero community being FOR and AGAINST being kept tabs on by the government to keep the populous safe and informed) are good...it's the execution that was so far off the mark in the actual comics.

My hope is that the Russo Brothers are smart enough to use those bones to tell a better story than the comics did.

EDIT: Also, I love that we've followed up Tony Stark circa-AVENGERS-AoU (which is Tony at full hubris level; "I can play at being a god and win, cause I'm fucking Tony Stark!") with Tony Stark circa-CIVIL WAR as the man who REALLY, REALLY fucked up and is pretty much solely responsible for the events that lead to the Sokovia Accords, and how the world views superheroes in a bad light...in full on repentance mode...a character progression that makes sense...but is completely at odds with who Tony was when he started out. And for me that's the people in charge of the MCU being VERY aware of their characters and life trajectories at a humanistic level. That's impressive to me.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 26 November 2015 - 08:54 PM

[Primateus]

D, on 26 November 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

Apt, on 26 November 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

You are all out of your mind.

Captain America in these films is a shadow of the Cap we see in the comics. Then again, this is based on Ultimate Captain America who was a raging dickhead so I guess it could be worse.

Some of us have never read the comics! I think the only Marvel media I ever consumed before the MCU movies began was some of the 90s Spiderman cartoon...

Apt is very much correct about Ultimate Captain America. He was a great, big bag of dicks. Totally badass and a true, boots on the ground, up close in your face and personal, Super Soldier. But he was NOT a good guy. Of course, the general populace viewed him as a hero, but he wasn't. He was a genuine asshole, not at all like the captain america shown in cap 1. He was self-righteous, sexist and sometimes even cruel. Rather a good analogy for the more unpleasant parts of american patriotism.

Regarding comic book civil war, I rather think that the only one on the pro-SRA side who had valid reasons for what he did was Reed Richards. Tony Stark had gone on and on about how he was totally a Futurist and that it was his business to know what was going to happen before the fact. And he did, to an extent. But Reed Richards had calculated a far worse outcome than even Stark had imagined. And, if I recall correctly, he was both right and wrong. Right about what would happen and wrong about what needed to be done about it.

In the coming movie a friend of mine is totally on the side of Iron Man because, well, he's got a raging hard-on for Tony Stark and he hates Captain America. But from what we can see in the trailer, at least so far, it does seem like he might have a point.

It appears that CapAm helps Bucky escape the authorities because he's his friend, which he also tells Tony, to which Tony responds "So was I"

This could well turn out to be not even different, but very different, from the comic book in what their seperate motivations are.

[Abyss]

Apt, on 26 November 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

Captain America in these films ... this is based on Ultimate Captain America who was a raging dickhead ...

You know that this isn't true.

Ultimate Cap was, at times, a raging dickhead.

He bears no resemblance to Movie Cap beyond the belt pouches and Sam Jackson as Nick Fury.

Main Marvel Comics Cap is a whole other thing with sixty years of stories behind him.

[Aptorian]

I think the friendship thing is a miss-direction. Or I hope it is, otherwise the whole movie becomes dumb in 30 seconds.

It's more likely that the Winter Soldier is just a symbol or martyr in a bigger war. The comic book civil war becomes a war when the American Government starts demanding that heroes and ordinary citizens turn themselves in for registration and possibly "re-assignment". To Cap this is obviously a bit to reminiscent of the 30s and 40s. Peoples liberties are being taken away and personal freedom is at stake.

In the movies one assumes this is the same focus. Bucky is just the trial case. Other heroes and villains will be taken out if they do not turn themselves in. Cap will obviously be torn between being the good soldier who follows orders and his own ideals of what freedom is and how a government should behave.

[QuickTidal]

Final trailer has arrived with our first look at Spiderman.



Spidey eyes courtesy of John Romita Sr. in style, and the fact that they are expressive? Awesome.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 10 March 2016 - 05:46 PM

[Coco with marshmallows]

while i like it, REALLY wish the Spidey reveal had been left as a surprise for the film itself.

[Macros]

ditto, not watching the trailer, but its been plastered over media today, would rather have been 'holy fuck its spidey!' in the cinema

[QuickTidal]

Meh, this is the last trailer and it's only a brief moment, so I was okay with it.

I can understand wanting to see it fresh in theatre though, for sure.

[Primateus]

There's also a good look at Crossbones.

[worry]

Yah I can understand that about Spidey (though it IS a charming intro), but overall this movie looks pretty darn awesome.

[Slow Ben]

Daaayyyyum this movie looks good.



And in the age of putting the entire damn movies into trailers, you should know if you dont want spoilers, you cant watch the trailers.

[Abyss]

They had me at "Underoos!".

[Macros]

Slow Ben, on 11 March 2016 - 01:54 AM, said:

Daaayyyyum this movie looks good.



And in the age of putting the entire damn movies into trailers, you should know if you dont want spoilers, you cant watch the trailers.

So I now have to time my entrance to the theatre just right to miss trailers and catch start of movie.
Oh great.

[QuickTidal]

Hires look at the new Spidey costume (spoilered for those who don't want to see it yet).

Spoiler

Note, that the eye lenses ARE mechanical, and the logo on his back is (when you pause the trailer as he's flipping) the old school Ditko/Romita chunky spider logo...which is great. I think he looks fantastic actually. Probably my fave of the movie costumes yet.

 Spidey-Hires.jpg (1.14MB)
Number of downloads: 5

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 11 March 2016 - 03:53 PM