[yessandalsnosocks]

Hey guys, my first post since registering goes for the question I have to ask:

I am past the halfmark on Dust of Dreams and have read only SE books. However I have been disappointed in that my favorite characters are apparently introduced in SE books and then cross over to ICE's books permanently.

I don't like reading spoilers but I do like to know what has been going on the whole time I've been reading. Since it takes at least 2 months for me to finish a single book by SE, I tend to forget some characters. However, now and then I remember: "hey, this guy is missing since he's been introduced, what's he been up to?"

That was what happened with Kallor for example. I liked Kallor, even though he's not really a nice person lol, but everything about him was interesting and he vanished ever since the scene with WJ basically. Then he returns in TtH (?) and his POV's were amazing, it changed the whole perspective on him without really changing the character.

Now I go and find out that probably 90% of his story is developed by Ian Esslemont. I'm not planning on reading Ian's books, as since the start I thought they were merely a spin-off of SE's books. But then it wasn't just Kallor apparently.

Where is L'oric and Osserc? Caladan Brood? the Great K'azz D'avore?? Even still about Kallor, he always proclaimed himself as King, Yet, when I go and see the list of Houses at the end of some book, I see that the High King is Reaver, while some guy named Skinner is King. I don't even know who Skinner. Now I know that if I want to find out I need to read ICE, but please, don't tell me that when I finish the Crippled God I will have no more Kallor or Caladan or L'oric or Osric than I already have.

I just feel cheated because the books take so long to read and I just happened to like characters that "cross over". Mind, some might not cross over, I'm just speculating here because I have seen almost nothing from them since introduction.

Also, can anyone explain really briefly the deal with Kallor and Skinner? I searched about it and apparently it's just about interpretation. As in, King of Chains has nothing to do with being a real king. But how can Kalloy agree to be below anyone? doesn't really fit his character.

Sorry for long text

[Itwæs Nom]

Maybe youre looking from wrong perspective.

You should be happy that characters that are not participiating in SE's books anymore are participiating in ICE's books.

SE cant just give every character vast amount on screen because it's someone's favourite character.
Btw, where did you find out 90% of Kallor's story is in ICE's books? I dont think his on-screen time in MBotF is that short, it would take whole book just about him to make it only 10%.

Regarding ICE, they created the world, characters and plot together, so its not merely spin-off.

Kallor was decieved, I guess he doesnt even know hes only reaver.

[yessandalsnosocks]

 Charlie Nom, on 08 November 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

Maybe youre looking from wrong perspective.

You should be happy that characters that are not participiating in SE's books anymore are participiating in ICE's books.

SE cant just give every character vast amount on screen because it's someone's favourite character.
Btw, where did you find out 90% of Kallor's story is in ICE's books? I dont think his on-screen time in MBotF is that short, it would take whole book just about him to make it only 10%.

Regarding ICE, they created the world, characters and plot together, so its not merely spin-off.

Kallor was decieved, I guess he doesnt even know hes only reaver.

As for the last part, thanks, it seems a plausible reason.

I know ICE's books aren't spin-offs, I just thought they were back when I started reading. Only when I was like 4 books in did I find out. And I didn't find 90% of his story in ICE's books, I haven't read them, it's just that he shows up in 2 (?) books and somehow it feels like his appearances are always "brief" (maybe it's just my impression). But since I've read that he's an active character in ICE's books, I thought he would be much more developed in there. I even remember reading that he fought Skinner (donnow how that turned out or if it really happened) at some point, for example. And that is major development for house of chains, I mean, king and reaver duking it out is no joke.

But yeah, I guess that it's normal this kind of thing happening since they made the world together.

What I wanted with this thread was to try and understand if practically all these characters who are introduced in SE's books but don't have much development are normally developed in ICE's books or are just left in the open? I just outright remember caladan, osserc, l'oric, and others. Kazz I already know is almost an ICE exclusive, and i was sad when I realized it cause he seemed awesome.

Not looking for spoilers but oh well, I guess one more book and a half and I will find out. And I will end up reading ICE's books in the end. My last dying hope will be that I will see all these characters again and much more actively when I do it

This post has been edited by yessandalsnosocks: 08 November 2015 - 03:01 PM

[Itwæs Nom]

Only read NoK, RotCg and SW but I think you are underrating Ian, well he is not Steven but I cant say his books are not awesomely wonderful. You definitely shouldnt be sad about characters in his books, theyre the same characters there, really.

[Andorion]

Kallor is a main character in only one ICE book. He gets a huge amount of screentime in MoI and TtH though and frankly I think TtH shows Kallor at his best.

[worry]

Everyone you mentioned by name does appear in ICE books, for the record, to one degree or another. In particular anyone associated with the Crimson Guard, including Skinner, gets a fair amount of screen time.

[D'rek]

First off, at least 1 of the 4 characters you want so much more of hardly appears at all in any ICE book and ergo gets next to no more development than what is in SE's books. Do you still feel cheated, then?

The Malazan series has hundreds of characters. You might be upset that L'oric does not get more screen-time, but what if I like Blues just as much as you like L'oric. Then we remove all the Blues screen-time and give it to L'oric, well then I'll be here instead of you posting a thread about how it's such a tragedy that Blues was so awesomely introduced yet never comes back for more screen-time.

It is simply not possible to have a lot of screen-time and/or development for every cool character that is introduced in a series like this. Trying to do so would require a series that is 30 books long instead of 10, and which stops introducing any new characters after book 11 (and that would be a really crappy series).

Or you could make every character less interesting, less noteworthy, until every reader doesn't want to see any more of the secondary or tertiary characters... but again such a series would suck. Part of what makes Malazan great is that you can have awesome non-central characters like Blues or Osric show up, be awesome, and continue on their way and as the reader you know they aren't currently the main focus, and may never be.


As for the ICE aspect, I think you're jumping to assumptions here. Yes, some characters transition from being more in the SE books to ICE books, but not very many. There are TONS of characters that only show up in SE books and never get a major "resolution", and likewise there are characters that only show up in ICE books and never get a major "resolution" either. There are characters that show up in *both* and never get a major "resolution". Likewise, there is tons of events and happenings that occur off-screen of both series.

You're assuming that all the "blanks" are filled in in ICE books, but they're not. Whether it is SE or ICE, this is still Malazan and there are a *lot* of things left out of the narrative.

Also

 Charlie Nom, on 08 November 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

Kallor was decieved, I guess he doesnt even know hes only reaver.

that is one possible explanation. Or maybe he was honestly promised the Kingship but failed to acquire it in TtH and that was his only chance at it.

 yessandalsnosocks, on 08 November 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

I even remember reading that he fought Skinner (donnow how that turned out or if it really happened) at some point, for example. And that is major development for house of chains, I mean, king and reaver duking it out is no joke.

I think you are thinking of Dassem Ultor fighting Skinner, and that happened long before either series takes place. It's one of thousands of miscellaneous references to past events throughout the series.