[Gorefest]

This might sound a bit frustrating, but you are actually quite on the ball in your understanding by the end of MoI. ShadowThrone's realm of Shadow is indeed only a splinter, a fraction of a once far bigger realm that somehow got shattered. You will learn much more about this in the next three books, but for now that is about the essence of what you need to know at this stage.
Draconus forged Dragnipur as a vessel, a warren in itself, to house the Gate of Darkness. Darkness was besieged by Chaos, a primordial force from a time before magic was regulated, ordered and channeled in a way that made it controllable to mages and the like. Draconus put the Gate inside Dragnipur on a wagon so that it would be mobile instead of fixed, thus able to evade Chaos. For the why, how and what for, see future books.
Throne of Shadow - RAFO (sorry)
A human warren is a warren that is accessible to human mages and priests, as opposed to some of the Elder or racial warrens that are Only accessible to certain races or powers.
Regarding the shattering of a warren: if you imagine a warren as a separate world or realm, say for instance like a small moon, a shattered warren would be that moon exploding and the fragments drifting apart; some bits still large or accessible enough to travel, use or live on; others too warped or broken to be of any use. One such fragment is the one that ST and Cots preside over. You may encounter other such fragment in layer books (or you may unwittingly already have encountered some, who knows).

[iso9001]

Gorefest, on 04 December 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

This might sound a bit frustrating, but you are actually quite on the ball in your understanding by the end of MoI. ShadowThrone's realm of Shadow is indeed only a splinter, a fraction of a once far bigger realm that somehow got shattered. You will learn much more about this in the next three books, but for now that is about the essence of what you need to know at this stage.
Draconus forged Dragnipur as a vessel, a warren in itself, to house the Gate of Darkness. Darkness was besieged by Chaos, a primordial force from a time before magic was regulated, ordered and channeled in a way that made it controllable to mages and the like. Draconus put the Gate inside Dragnipur on a wagon so that it would be mobile instead of fixed, thus able to evade Chaos. For the why, how and what for, see future books.
Throne of Shadow - RAFO (sorry)
A human warren is a warren that is accessible to human mages and priests, as opposed to some of the Elder or racial warrens that are Only accessible to certain races or powers.
Regarding the shattering of a warren: if you imagine a warren as a separate world or realm, say for instance like a small moon, a shattered warren would be that moon exploding and the fragments drifting apart; some bits still large or accessible enough to travel, use or live on; others too warped or broken to be of any use. One such fragment is the one that ST and Cots preside over. You may encounter other such fragment in layer books (or you may unwittingly already have encountered some, who knows).

Thank you very much Gorefest, you clarified many points. Please don't say sorry for RAFO answers. My only concern is that something might be explained but I might have misssed the point. If it is going to be revealed later, then no problem but if it is already explained and I missed it, well, then there is a problem

Can you also please tell me what is Order? And what happens to the Gate if Dragnipur is shattered by Paran (or by someone else)?

Regards

[LinearPhilosopher]

iso9001, on 04 December 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 04 December 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

This might sound a bit frustrating, but you are actually quite on the ball in your understanding by the end of MoI. ShadowThrone's realm of Shadow is indeed only a splinter, a fraction of a once far bigger realm that somehow got shattered. You will learn much more about this in the next three books, but for now that is about the essence of what you need to know at this stage.
Draconus forged Dragnipur as a vessel, a warren in itself, to house the Gate of Darkness. Darkness was besieged by Chaos, a primordial force from a time before magic was regulated, ordered and channeled in a way that made it controllable to mages and the like. Draconus put the Gate inside Dragnipur on a wagon so that it would be mobile instead of fixed, thus able to evade Chaos. For the why, how and what for, see future books.
Throne of Shadow - RAFO (sorry)
A human warren is a warren that is accessible to human mages and priests, as opposed to some of the Elder or racial warrens that are Only accessible to certain races or powers.
Regarding the shattering of a warren: if you imagine a warren as a separate world or realm, say for instance like a small moon, a shattered warren would be that moon exploding and the fragments drifting apart; some bits still large or accessible enough to travel, use or live on; others too warped or broken to be of any use. One such fragment is the one that ST and Cots preside over. You may encounter other such fragment in layer books (or you may unwittingly already have encountered some, who knows).

Thank you very much Gorefest, you clarified many points. Please don't say sorry for RAFO answers. My only concern is that something might be explained but I might have misssed the point. If it is going to be revealed later, then no problem but if it is already explained and I missed it, well, then there is a problem

Can you also please tell me what is Order? And what happens to the Gate if Dragnipur is shattered by Paran (or by someone else)?

Regards

In midnight tides you actually get a very good explanation of how warrens work so wait till then.

in regards to Your what if scenario. well. theres the gate of shadow, and an elder god thought it was important to condemn poor souls to pulling a giant wagon for eternity to avoid chaos reaching the gate. Ill let you pull your own conclusions.

Order is the opposite of chaos. The realm of chaos is basically a world of untamed energy that forever grows in power and influence. Get's touched upon a bit more later on, but basically chaos is like an infection. Growing and spreading while doing nasty shit to anything in its way. Order is basically whatever isn't chaos.


Honestly if you're worried you missed something, don't worry, thats what re reading is for. Just read the damm thing and enjoy the mystery, enjoy not being sure whats happening. Come to your own conclusions and enjoy it when later on in the series everything you thought was true was actually a lie

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 05 December 2015 - 02:33 AM

[iso9001]

Thank you LinearPhilosopher,


I realized that Amanda also had troubles just like me on TOR rereadings so I felt not alone and became happy I will go on with a huge cloud on my mind and enjoy the series


Regards

[Gorefest]

LinearPhilosopher, on 05 December 2015 - 02:30 AM, said:

in regards to Your what if scenario. well. theres the gate of shadow, and an elder god thought it was important to condemn poor souls to pulling a giant wagon for eternity to avoid chaos reaching the gate. Ill let you pull your own conclusions.

It is the gate of Darkness, not of shadow. Important distinction. Darkness is the racial realm of the Tiste Andii.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Gorefest, on 05 December 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

LinearPhilosopher, on 05 December 2015 - 02:30 AM, said:

in regards to Your what if scenario. well. theres the gate of shadow, and an elder god thought it was important to condemn poor souls to pulling a giant wagon for eternity to avoid chaos reaching the gate. Ill let you pull your own conclusions.

It is the gate of Darkness, not of shadow. Important distinction. Darkness is the racial realm of the Tiste Andii.

good pickup. Havent' read malaz in ages

[iso9001]

Hi all,

Some questions of course

Do we get to know more about dream wolrds? Like, how are they created? What purposes do they have? How can someone create a dream world and transfer it to someone else (like from Kruppe to Myhbe)? Etc.

And does Paran still have the possession of Lorn's otataral sword? During the battle with the Seer, in a scene, Paran drops his sword. Later, when he and QB goes after seer, the sword is in his hands. Does anyone else noticed this? Maybe there is a scene that he regains his sword and I might have missed it but AFAIK he does not get it back. If he still has otataral sword, how come it does not nullify condor magic?

Regards

This post has been edited by iso9001: 09 December 2015 - 11:33 AM

[worry]

You get to know more about dream worlds, but "more" is a tricky word. Who knows if you'll learn what you wanted to learn?

The answer about the sword is yes, he has it, but SE literally forgot about the sword during the writing of this book. Perhaps because he had to start over after a substantially finished first draft was lost. But it's not forgotten in subsequent book(s).

[iso9001]

worry, on 09 December 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

You get to know more about dream worlds, but "more" is a tricky word. Who knows if you'll learn what you wanted to learn?

The answer about the sword is yes, he has it, but SE literally forgot about the sword during the writing of this book. Perhaps because he had to start over after a substantially finished first draft was lost. But it's not forgotten in subsequent book(s).

Thank you Worry.

My question is then, since Otataral nullifies magic, can a mage wield otataral sword (does it have a name? I always loved Glamdring and Narsil names ) without harming him? How does that sword affect Master of the Deck?

Regards

[worry]

RAFO.

[iso9001]

worry, on 10 December 2015 - 12:16 AM, said:

RAFO.

Just as I guessed

I have finished MOI, what a book! For the latest chapter, I have some questions

1) Why did Rake wait for so long to attack? What was the point? Logistics?
2) Why did Rake also his his Tiste Andii with Moon's Spawn? I don't think it was necessary.
3) Why did Brood do nothing when he arrived at battlefield? If I am not mistaken, he didn't fight and also his forces stayed away (except for Grey Swords and Gruntle's team which are not part of Brood's own force)
4) Do you all feel disappointed of the so many casulties of Brideburners
5) Paran's staying out of battle with some petty reasons, considering Dujek went to help Paran's sister, seemed a little bit "light-weight" to me. What do you think?
6) Aside from Whiskeyjack, my saddest point was Hedge. Yours?
7) I am not sure what I feel about Mhybe. Sometimes I hate her sometimes I pity her. Knowing that she could have freed Togg sooner so that T'lan Ay would destroy K'ell fighters and prevent so many losses, makes it harder for me to like her... What about you?
8) I sense I will see more of Paran's blessing of dead BBs
9) Isn't Kilava bonecaster? Why do the Imass need another flesh and blood bonecaster to redeem them? Why can't Kilava do the job?
10) What did Itkovian do to the Imass? Did he ripped their memories of them and relieved them? Did he redeem them? Did he make them flesh and bone again? How come Tool had a human, a Barghast in specific, body?
I am now reading re-reads and I believe I will have some other questions later

Regards

This post has been edited by iso9001: 10 December 2015 - 10:39 AM

[Gorefest]

iso9001, on 10 December 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:

1) Why did Rake wait for so long to attack? What was the point? Logistics?
2) Why did Rake also his his Tiste Andii with Moon's Spawn? I don't think it was necessary.
3) Why did Brood do nothing when he arrived at battlefield? If I am not mistaken, he didn't fight and also his forces stayed away (except for Grey Swords and Gruntle's team which are not part of Brood's own force)
4) Do you all feel disappointed of the so many casulties of Brideburners
5) Paran's staying out of battle with some petty reasons, considering Dujek went to help Paran's sister, seemed a little bit "light-weight" to me. What do you think?
6) Aside from Whiskeyjack, my saddest point was Hedge. Yours?
7) I am not sure what I feel about Mhybe. Sometimes I hate her sometimes I pity her. Knowing that she could have freed Togg sooner so that T'lan Ay would destroy K'ell fighters and prevent so many losses, makes it harder for me to like her... What about you?
8) I sense I will see more of Paran's blessing of dead BBs
9) Isn't Kilava bonecaster? Why do the Imass need another flesh and blood bonecaster to redeem them? Why can't Kilava do the job?
10) What did Itkovian do to the Imass? Did he ripped their memories of them and relieved them? Did he redeem them? Did he make them flesh and bone again? How come Tool had a human, a Barghast in specific, body?

1) Dramatic reveal, I suppose.
2) Where would you have them go then? MS is their home and Rake is their leader.
3) They all move at different speeds and arrive at Coral at different times. After Capustan, the army splits in half: Brood and the Tise Andii that were not with Rake travel via one city on their way to Coral, the Barghast and Dujek's army go via another (can't remember the city names). but then Dujek decides to send the Bridgeburners straight to Coral (with the help of quorls, I believe) to defuse any ambushes before the main armies arrive. Once the two main forces join back up, they decide to again send a group ahead at double-pace to support the BBs. So the BBs get to Coral first and actually enter the city, then Dujek's army arrives, then Whiskeyjack and the double-pace reinforcements, and finally Brood with the remaining host. Brood is actually about to use his hammer when Moon Spawn appears from the bay and kills the Matron.
4) Blow after blow after blow
5) Not sure about Paran's 'petty' reasons, can't remember that. As far as I can remember, he is with the BBs when they attack Coral. Or are you referring to another event?
6) Itkovian was very painful too. And the whole Toc/Tool thing.
7) I don't think she was aware of her abilities. She is just a scared young woman who finds herself aging rapidly and her life force drained by her unborn child. A bit of resentment and anxiety is to be expected.
8) RAFO!
9) Not sure, although she probably simply doesn't want to even if she could. Kilava was there at the Joining and advised against it, but they went ahead anyway. So she probably feels they deserve their fate.
10) He takes their hundreds of thousands of years worth of misery and pain, then finds that there is no God left for him to release that suffering onto. Instead, Pran Chole helps him to divert all their memories to the new Wolf realm that the Mhybe sustains. So they do not return to flesh and bone, but they get relieved from their pain and anguish. Tool does become alive again, but that is not due to Itkovian's action. It is Silverfox who returns him to life as a flesh and blood Imass (not a human or a barghast; both of those races are evolutionary descendants of the Imass).

[iso9001]

Thank you Gorefast

2) I would have expected them to stay with Korlat and rest. As far as I can understand, they did nothing but the full unveiling of Kurald Galain. Rest was done by Rake and MS.
3) What I meant is, after they arrived at Coral, Gruntle and Grey Swords immediately attacked but Brood did not. I know he was about to use his hammer but I believe he must have something else in reseve other than waking Burn up hasn't he? For example, he did use his hammer against Kruppe without waking Burn up... He could have done the same. Or maybe all these happened in a timeline I fail to understand. Maybe he was about to use the hammer but by the time, Rake finished the job. Yet, since Brood apologized from Burn, I believe he intended to use the hammer to wake Burn up...
5) This was after the war ended, when Dujek asked Paran to join him in the war in Seven Cities but Paran refused arguing he is not meant to be a soldier... That is a petty reason for the captain of BBs, I think...
8) Nice

Regards

[Abyss]

iso9001, on 10 December 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

...
3) What I meant is, after they arrived at Coral, Gruntle and Grey Swords immediately attacked but Brood did not. I know he was about to use his hammer but I believe he must have something else in reseve other than waking Burn up hasn't he? For example, he did use his hammer against Kruppe without waking Burn up... He could have done the same. Or maybe all these happened in a timeline I fail to understand. Maybe he was about to use the hammer but by the time, Rake finished the job. Yet, since Brood apologized from Burn, I believe he intended to use the hammer to wake Burn up...

If all was losts Brood feared, then Rake was defeated, the Malazans were done and Brood's army wasn't going to be able to beat the Seer's forces, in which case Burn was vulnerable and Hammer Time.

The Kruppe thing was practically an accident - Brood wasn't actual;ly trying to wake Burn. ... altho it seemed as tho Kruppe deliberately baited Brood to the hit, to ensure everyone saw Burn's blood and realized what was at stake.

Quote

5) This was after the war ended, when Dujek asked Paran to join him in the war in Seven Cities but Paran refused arguing he is not meant to be a soldier... That is a petty reason for the captain of BBs, I think...

Ah, but what sort of reason is it for the shiny new Master of the Deck? Paran has a lot going on as of the end of MoI.

[iso9001]

Hi all,

I finished reading book 3 with your help Thank you very much. I am very eager to start 4th book Let's see where it will take me...

Regards

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 13 December 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Hi all,

I finished reading book 3 with your help Thank you very much. I am very eager to start 4th book Let's see where it will take me...

Regards

Excellent! Book 4 introduces some of my favourite characters.

[iso9001]

Thank you Andorion.

I wanted to ask you guys that do you ever feel upset about the killing of horses? Whenevera horse is killed, butchered or has a broken leg, I feel terrible. Each and every time. Do you feel the same?

Regards

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 15 December 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Thank you Andorion.

I wanted to ask you guys that do you ever feel upset about the killing of horses? Whenevera horse is killed, butchered or has a broken leg, I feel terrible. Each and every time. Do you feel the same?

Regards

Well, yes, but not just horses. I also feel bad about dogs. One of the more traumatic aspects of Chain of Dogs IMO is the fate of Coltaine's loyal cattle dogs.
Horses are also definitely an issue. I hate reading about failed cavalry charges and all the injured and dead horses

[iso9001]

Andorion, on 15 December 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

iso9001, on 15 December 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Thank you Andorion.

I wanted to ask you guys that do you ever feel upset about the killing of horses? Whenevera horse is killed, butchered or has a broken leg, I feel terrible. Each and every time. Do you feel the same?

Regards

Well, yes, but not just horses. I also feel bad about dogs. One of the more traumatic aspects of Chain of Dogs IMO is the fate of Coltaine's loyal cattle dogs.
Horses are also definitely an issue. I hate reading about failed cavalry charges and all the injured and dead horses

When I first decided to ask this question, I would also add the dogs. But by the time, I just read some horses die, so I forgot the dogs But you are right, dogs, horses, in short, all animals that have nothing to the all these wars..

[Manderley]

Got a few questions of my own

1.Can someone help me understand what happened to Fener and why he died or whatever it was that happened to him?

2.Why did Korlat lie to Dujek about Whiskeyjack's Leg?

3.What was the point of two necromancers in the book?

4.Paran seems to think he and Quick ben have slowed down the poisoning of the Warrens to a crawl and this had something to do with Omntose Phellack. How exactly did this happen?

5.Why was Moon's Spawn submerged? Was it deliberate or was Rake forced into it?

This post has been edited by Manderley: 20 December 2015 - 12:14 PM