[blackzoid]

Werthead, on 28 June 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

The final shot showed that a fleet of Martell and Tyrell ships (note: Dorne does not have a large fleet and is a not a sea power at all, but show) had joined Team Daenerys. I'm actually wondering if there was going to be more of a problem with Dany having enough ships and they were going to make more of the Martells and Tyrells sending more transports, but then cut it in favour of saying "We have enough ships, barely."

Ok so someone in Westros was able to use a Warren gate to move the Martell/Tyrell ships to Meereen. Probably just like the Perish/Malaz ships in the Bonehunters and the Crimson Guard ships in RoTCG. Impressive magic. I wonder if they will be able to repeat that feat on the way back, possibly in an emergency if Euron's ships attack her. We shall have to see I guess.

[Maark Abbott]

QuickTidal, on 28 June 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 28 June 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

The whole Jon thing has become, quite frankly, a confusing mess of theories, which this episode apparently answered (but didn't at all). Still, it was good to see Sansa's face when he was proclaimed king. It FELL.

Actually Sansa has a slight smile or contentment on her face the whole time Jon is hailed king in the north starting with when Lady Mormont is hailing him as such...it's not until she looks over at LF at the end that her face falls.

Her face seemed pretty fallen throughout - a slight smile at the end at Jon when he looks at her but otherwise her look said to me "goddamn pachuracrky ruining me being ruler of Winterfell!"

Oh well. Hopefully Sansadin will get killt next season. Maybe by a dragon.

[worry]

Why can't she be Lady of Winterfell while Jon is King in the North? He doesn't need his seat to be Winterfell. He can build an igloo palace.

Anyway, all Sansa's look tells me is she needs to figure out a way to play LF, for the real reversal of schemer superiority we've all been waiting for. He's vexed her (and she's vexed by being glossed over, generally), but in no way is she siding with LF. And I'm not saying her dismay is a feint, I'm just saying LF is the one who's gonna get got, not Jon. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he's a casualty of s7 rather than 8.

[QuickTidal]

Kanyemander West, on 28 June 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

Why can't she be Lady of Winterfell while Jon is King in the North? He doesn't need his seat to be Winterfell. He can build an igloo palace.

Superman's place is probably for sale in fact.

[Gorefest]

blackzoid, on 28 June 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

It was fun, a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it....but I just cant help thinking about how absurd the magic teleporter has gotten.

Meh, still not sure why this is being made such a big deal on this forum. It is very obvious that they go for a narrative timeline, not a chronological timeline. So events fit in with the flow of the story, not necessarily because they take place in chronological sequence. As long as that doesn't directly inflict upon the overall timeline, I see no real issues with that. For all we know, the big Essos/Ironborn/Dornish fleet in the final shot is an event that takes place several months after the events at Riverrun or in King's Landing. When Cersei is crowned, Jaime is already back and Tyrell grannie is in Dorne with knowledge of what happened to Loras and Margeary.

Just because sequences from different locations take place consecutively on screen, does not mean they take place consecutively in chronological order. Midnight Tides is the 5th book in the Malazan series, but most of the earlier events in the book take place before events in GotM. The scene order is chosen for emotional and storyline impact. I recommend disturbed viewers to never watch Pulp Fiction.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 28 June 2016 - 12:34 PM

[Terez]

Gorefest, on 28 June 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

blackzoid, on 28 June 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

It was fun, a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it....but I just cant help thinking about how absurd the magic teleporter has gotten.

Meh, still not sure why this is being made such a big deal on this forum.

It's not just here; it's everywhere I see this show being discussed. It gets tedious after a while; it's not clever or funny.

[Gorefest]

Nor necessarily correct either. Point out a blatant flaw in overall timeline to me that cannot be reasoned away by consecutive events in different locations not necessarily taking place in chronological order and I will hold my hands up in deflated acceptance. Until then, just sit back and enjoy the story.

[QuickTidal]

Terez, on 28 June 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 28 June 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

blackzoid, on 28 June 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

It was fun, a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it....but I just cant help thinking about how absurd the magic teleporter has gotten.

Meh, still not sure why this is being made such a big deal on this forum.

It's not just here; it's everywhere I see this show being discussed. It gets tedious after a while; it's not clever or funny.

It's weird to me that it's made such a big deal of as well. It's like people want them to throw a title card in between scenes that reads "Time Passes" to make it clear or somesuch.

If you see Varys in Dorne, and then back in Mereen on a ship a few scenes later...assume that he traveled there by normal ship and that some time has passed while be did so and we just didn't see that on screen.

I'm not sure why it's such a hurdle for some.

It's not a magical teleporter, it's called "editing out the traveling" because showing it would be boring and less than useless.

[blackzoid]

Terez, on 28 June 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 28 June 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

blackzoid, on 28 June 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

It was fun, a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it....but I just cant help thinking about how absurd the magic teleporter has gotten.

Meh, still not sure why this is being made such a big deal on this forum.

It's not just here; it's everywhere I see this show being discussed. It gets tedious after a while; it's not clever or funny.

If it is everywhere the show is being discussed...does that not mean that it is possibly a problem?

Previously I joked on the Littlefinger teleportation without been tooo annoyed but Varys in this episode was in 2 places at least hundreds of miles (thousands?) apart. Set in a ostensibly low-technology world. Vary's place in that last shot was so unnecessary that it just jars for me. Did we really need visual representation (of which I had to go back and look up in screen caps on the ship banners) that Dorne and the Tyrell's are with Dany? Wasn't that already spelled out enough earlier?

And lets be honest here as fans, the Malazan books are NOT a good idea for examples of good time keeping and chronology. How long was Trull on that wall and how old is Harllo really?

[Terez]

blackzoid, on 28 June 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

Terez, on 28 June 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 28 June 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

blackzoid, on 28 June 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

It was fun, a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it....but I just cant help thinking about how absurd the magic teleporter has gotten.

Meh, still not sure why this is being made such a big deal on this forum.

It's not just here; it's everywhere I see this show being discussed. It gets tedious after a while; it's not clever or funny.

If it is everywhere the show is being discussed...does that not mean that it is possibly a problem?

Not really. Everywhere I go - YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, anywhere DBS videos are posted - people think that Goku Black is Goten. Off-topic, I know, but it's the example that came to mind. That theory is overwhelmingly popular and overwhelmingly dumb.

blackzoid, on 28 June 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

And lets be honest here as fans, the Malazan books are NOT a good idea for examples of good time keeping and chronology. How long was Trull on that wall and how old is Harllo really?

I love RJ's timeline continuity in WoT. It's consistent even down to the phases of the moon.

[Gorefest]

blackzoid, on 28 June 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

And lets be honest here as fans, the Malazan books are NOT a good idea for examples of good time keeping and chronology. How long was Trull on that wall and how old is Harllo really?

Indeed. So why make it an issue? It can easily be reasoned away with off-screen passing of time. There are plenty of bits in the show that we can point at and complain about directorial or editorial choices and such, but the time jump complaints just feel like searching for something to kick the show with for the sake of kicking.

[Nevyn]

Gorefest, on 28 June 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Nor necessarily correct either. Point out a blatant flaw in overall timeline to me that cannot be reasoned away by consecutive events in different locations not necessarily taking place in chronological order and I will hold my hands up in deflated acceptance. Until then, just sit back and enjoy the story.

Its not about whether you can explain it. Lack of chronological order should not be a get out of jail free card for the story. These things stand out because the show has long set standards for how the passage of time feels and is marked, and they are now breaking them willy nilly to serve whatever story they want to tell each episode.

But if you really want to go down this road:

In Episode 4 "Book of the Stranger", Littlefinger is in the Vale and convinces Robin to rally the knights to come to Sansa's aid. We know that this is after Sansa escapes Winterfell, because Littlefinger says as much.

Sansa escapes during the fight with Stannis. She and Theon would not have lived long on their own, so the rescue by Brienne is shortly thereafter (a day or two at the outside). After that, Brienne and Sansa have horses and head straight for the wall. Shortly after they get there, they have a secret meeting with Littlefinger in a nearby town, and Littlefinger advises the knights of the vale are waiting at Moat Cailin.

Now all of this presents any number of problems. First, Littlefinger would need to muster all the Knights. Then he would need to lead them to Moat Cailin, I guess via the Kingsroad and not the Twins, since I doubt the Freys would let him through. That is already a longer journey than Winterfell to the Wall. Then Littlefinger needs to ride on past his army nearly all the way to the wall (which also would take him pretty close past Winterfell if he was riding for speed. If you like, you can assume that he somehow commandeered a boat to take him to Eastwatch by the Sea, but then that boat takes an even longer route through stormy seas, and somehow is noted by no one.

After they meet, Littlefinger heads back to Moat Cailin until he gets a raven from Sansa (after she has taken a tour of the North), and the knights ride North, arriving more or less just in time.

Now, in order to explain that by chronological gaps (since it is synchronized at the start), you have to presume Sansa and Brienne and resurrected Jon spent weeks/months together at Castle Black before Littlefinger showed up, which doesn't seem likely since the wildlings are all still there, and Jon has dramatically quit yet is still there.

It also means that the knights of the vale likely occupied Moat Cailin for as much as 6 months to a year while Littlefinger went back and forth, and then Sansa recruited, then finally asked for help. And in that time, no one in the North noticed their presence, nor their approach on Winterfell thereafter.


We can play the same game with Varys's jetpack early next season once we have some markers of how soon after the burning of the Sept Cersei hears of Dany's landing. We have good markers for when Varys was in Dorne, and the situation in KL is not likely to be stable, so we should get a good sense of whether it can be reasonably explained.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 28 June 2016 - 02:21 PM

[blackzoid]

I am not trying to "kick" the show, but I (and on many review sites I read this morning, not just the comments but the actual reviewers themselves) was jarred by Vary's position in that last shot. We have an opening sequence that implies that the setting of this show is many thousands of miles wide. Having to perform some home work ourselves and reason that away in order to fix something that immediately jarred my eye is not something that helps me enjoy a show.

2 examples of teleportation and my differing reactions:

1: Arya last appeared in Bravos and now at The Twins. I have no major problem with this, even though its teleportation because its a different episode and my mind accepts that time has passed.

2: Varys appears in Dorne half-way through this episode and then all the way back to Dany's fleet in the same episode. In my mind, this is less smooth and jars my enjoyment of the scene. I have to "reason" out that some time passed. Differing episodes allow me to easily swallow teleport jumps.

I've never been too happy with the Malazan problems either. Fannon-theory is that Trull was swept up in some odd time properties of a Warren. And Harllo, while thematically suitable for Toll the Hounds, is a walking time-discontinuity. But generally, at least the Malazan events are cronologically ok within the same book, similar to how I would like events within the same episode of GOT to not conflict. So its easier for me to handle that Harllo should not be that old considering that his conception happened in a book 5 books back.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 28 June 2016 - 02:41 PM

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 28 June 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 28 June 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Nor necessarily correct either. Point out a blatant flaw in overall timeline to me that cannot be reasoned away by consecutive events in different locations not necessarily taking place in chronological order and I will hold my hands up in deflated acceptance. Until then, just sit back and enjoy the story.

Its not about whether you can explain it. Lack of chronological order should not be a get out of jail free card for the story. These things stand out because the show has long set standards for how the passage of time feels and is marked, and they are now breaking them willy nilly to serve whatever story they want to tell each episode.

But if you really want to go down this road:

In Episode 4 "Book of the Stranger", Littlefinger is in the Vale and convinces Robin to rally the knights to come to Sansa's aid. We know that this is after Sansa escapes Winterfell, because Littlefinger says as much.

Sansa escapes during the fight with Stannis. She and Theon would not have lived long on their own, so the rescue by Brienne is shortly thereafter (a day or two at the outside). After that, Brienne and Sansa have horses and head straight for the wall (This is a guess on your part, and no length of time is ascribed to how long this trip takes). Shortly after they get their, they have a secret meeting with Littlefinger in a nearby town ("shortly" is also a guess, you have no way of actually knowing how long they are there before the meeting with LF takes place), and Littlefinger advises the knights of the vale are waiting at Moat Cailin.

Now all of this presents any number of problems. First, Littlefinger would need to muster all the Knights (this would have occurred immediately after convincing Robyn in Ep4). Then he would need to lead them to Moat Cailin (this trip [Vale to Maot Cailin] is about as long as the trip from Winterfell to Castle Black that Sansa and Brienne undertake... as the crow flies), I guess via the Kingsroad and not the Twins, since I doubt the Freys would let him through (yes, and the fact that the Kingsroad is closer to the Vale and the Twins are completely out of the way and not required to be gone through). That is already a longer journey than Winterfell to the Wall (It is not though. Check out the map...the trip is MODERATELY longer and depends ALSO on whether they short cut any of it to get to the Kingsroad to begin with, but even by main roads it's not that much longer by map measurement) . Then Littlefinger needs to ride on past his army nearly all the way to the wall (which also would take him pretty close past Winterfell if he was riding for speed (and this could happen in whatever the time is that Brienne and Sansa are AT the wall that we don't know the duration of, you've just assumed that she met with LF immediately because it was edited that way). If you like, you can assume that he somehow commandeered a boat to take him to Eastwatch by the Sea, but then that boat takes an even longer route through stormy seas, and somehow is noted by no one. (not sure why this is even suggested, the main roads suit his purposes...especially riding alone as he did)

After they meet, Littlefinger heads back to Moat Cailin until he gets a raven from Sansa (after she has taken a tour of the North), and the knights ride North, arriving more or less just in time.

Now, in order to explain that by chronological gaps (since it is synchronized at the start), you have to presume Sansa and Brienne and resurrected Jon spent weeks/months (weeks is fine, no need for months here) together at Castle Black before Littlefinger showed up, which doesn't seem likely since the wildlings are all still there, and Jon has dramatically quit yet is still there.

It also means that the knights of the vale likely occupied Moat Cailin for as much as 6 months (nonsense) to a year while Littlefinger went back and forth, and then Sansa recruited, then finally asked for help. And in that time, no one in the North noticed their presence, nor their approach on Winterfell thereafter.


We can play the same game with Varys's jetpack early next season once we have some markers of how soon after the burning of the Sept Cersei hears of Dany's landing. We have good markers for when Varys was in Dorne, and the situation in KL is not likely to be stable, so we should get a good sense of whether it can be reasonably explained. (this is some SERIOUS nitpicking dude. Serious.)

Responses in red.

EDIT: You've also assumed in all of this that LF was WITH the army as it marched. In all possibilities he's sent them to Moat Cailin and then rode along alone to find Sansa and speak with her and only goes back to them AFTER speaking with Sansa. This gives the Vale army even more time to get to Moat Cailin as it can happen behind the scenes while LF is continuing north.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 28 June 2016 - 02:43 PM

[blackzoid]

It is somewhat ironic to consider these timeline debates and the details of them considering GRRM's struggles with the "Meereenese knot" were possibly a reason for the delay in releasing "A Dance With Dragons". And his struggle as to whether to do a time-skip in the middle and age up his characters or not.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 28 June 2016 - 02:46 PM

[Abyss]

Ok, ok, everyone be calm... all together now....

The timeline is not important,

the timeline is not important,

hi ho bye Daario,

the timeline is not important....

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 28 June 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 28 June 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 28 June 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Nor necessarily correct either. Point out a blatant flaw in overall timeline to me that cannot be reasoned away by consecutive events in different locations not necessarily taking place in chronological order and I will hold my hands up in deflated acceptance. Until then, just sit back and enjoy the story.

Its not about whether you can explain it. Lack of chronological order should not be a get out of jail free card for the story. These things stand out because the show has long set standards for how the passage of time feels and is marked, and they are now breaking them willy nilly to serve whatever story they want to tell each episode.

But if you really want to go down this road:

In Episode 4 "Book of the Stranger", Littlefinger is in the Vale and convinces Robin to rally the knights to come to Sansa's aid. We know that this is after Sansa escapes Winterfell, because Littlefinger says as much.

Sansa escapes during the fight with Stannis. She and Theon would not have lived long on their own, so the rescue by Brienne is shortly thereafter (a day or two at the outside). After that, Brienne and Sansa have horses and head straight for the wall (This is a guess on your part, and no length of time is ascribed to how long this trip takes) Brienne says they should go to the wall. Feel free to surmise your own completely illogical detours they would take. Shortly after they get their, they have a secret meeting with Littlefinger in a nearby town ("shortly" is also a guess, you have no way of actually knowing how long they are there before the meeting with LF takes place), Addressed below. They get to the wall after Jon executes the traitors and quits. You can presume if you like that they spend weeks/months at Castle Black before LF arrives if you like. This would be just hanging about after he quits with the leadership of the watch in Limbo, the wildlings who came for a specific purpose still being there, etc and Littlefinger advises the knights of the vale are waiting at Moat Cailin.

Now all of this presents any number of problems. First, Littlefinger would need to muster all the Knights (this would have occurred immediately after convincing Robyn in Ep4). A muster is not instantaneous. You need to call the banners. That is ravens all throughout the Vale. Then they need to meet in one place, provision, and head north with their provisions. Then he would need to lead them to Moat Cailin (this trip [Vale to Maot Cailin] is about as long as the trip from Winterfell to Castle Black that Sansa and Brienne undertake... as the crow flies), Armies are not crows,I guess via the Kingsroad and not the Twins, since I doubt the Freys would let him through (yes, and the fact that the Kingsroad is closer to the Vale and the Twins are completely out of the way and not required to be gone through). That is already a longer journey than Winterfell to the Wall (It is not though. Check out the map...the trip is MODERATELY longer and depends ALSO on whether they short cut any of it to get to the Kingsroad to begin with, but even by main roads it's not that much longer by map measurement) .So moderately longer is not longer? I said its longer, you said its not, then immediately said it is moderately longer. They have to go West then North. Then Littlefinger needs to ride on past his army nearly all the way to the wall (which also would take him pretty close past Winterfell if he was riding for speed (and this could happen in whatever the time is that Brienne and Sansa are AT the wall that we don't know the duration of, you've just assumed that she met with LF immediately because it was edited that way). And because it makes zero sense for Sansa and Brienne to get to Castle Black, hug it out with someone who just quit, and then just chill for a month making no plans and going nowhere else. If you like, you can assume that he somehow commandeered a boat to take him to Eastwatch by the Sea, but then that boat takes an even longer route through stormy seas, and somehow is noted by no one. (not sure why this is even suggested, the main roads suit his purposes...especially riding alone as he did) Except for two factors, the first being that although you are stubbornly insisting Sansa and Brienne were having a peaceful castle black vacation, that makes no sense, so we need to explain LF covering far more distance in similar time. AND the fact that this has him riding directly past Bolton occupied Winterfell TWICE.

After they meet, Littlefinger heads back to Moat Cailin until he gets a raven from Sansa (after she has taken a tour of the North), and the knights ride North, arriving more or less just in time.

Now, in order to explain that by chronological gaps (since it is synchronized at the start), you have to presume Sansa and Brienne and resurrected Jon spent weeks/months (weeks is fine, no need for months here) Count it out, ravens to Vale bannermen, muster (waiting for all to arrive) and provision. Marching an army a 'MODERATELY longer' distance than 2 riders have to go. Then riding your horse from Moat Cailin to Castle Black together at Castle Black before Littlefinger showed up, which doesn't seem likely since the wildlings are all still there, and Jon has dramatically quit yet is still there.

It also means that the knights of the vale likely occupied Moat Cailin for as much as 6 months (nonsense) Again, count it out. Littlefinger rides north. They say no. They then get the pink letter sometime later, head out to Bear Island and the keeps of multiple other northern lords trying to muster support, and all of that happens before Sansa even sends the Raven. And for them to arrive in the knick of time instead of well ahead, it also makes for a darn quick muster and march from Jon to a year while Littlefinger went back and forth, and then Sansa recruited, then finally asked for help. And in that time, no one in the North noticed their presence, nor their approach on Winterfell thereafter.


We can play the same game with Varys's jetpack early next season once we have some markers of how soon after the burning of the Sept Cersei hears of Dany's landing. We have good markers for when Varys was in Dorne, and the situation in KL is not likely to be stable, so we should get a good sense of whether it can be reasonably explained. (this is some SERIOUS nitpicking dude. Serious.) Gorefest asked for anything that could not be comfortably explained by lack of chronological order. In order to provide such an example, one must nitpick.

Responses in red.

FWIW, responses in red is a very annoying way to respond since it makes addressing those responses a PITA.

But since you wanted to go that way, responses to responses in green.

Long story short, your entire explanation depends on the notion that Sansa and Brienne and Jon and Tormund spent significant offscreen time together at Castle Black before Littlefinger's arrival, which makes little sense given the nature of the conversations they have after that, and given that Jon has quit the watch, Tormund is not in the watch, etc. And even then you are being quite optimistic about how freely and swiftly he could travel.

QuickTidal, on 28 June 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

EDIT: You've also assumed in all of this that LF was WITH the army as it marched. In all possibilities he's sent them to Moat Cailin and then rode along alone to find Sansa and speak with her and only goes back to them AFTER speaking with Sansa. This gives the Vale army even more time to get to Moat Cailin as it can happen behind the scenes while LF is continuing north.

Except he tells Sansa that the army is AT Moat Cailin when he meets her, not on the way.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 28 June 2016 - 03:10 PM

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 28 June 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 28 June 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

EDIT: You've also assumed in all of this that LF was WITH the army as it marched. In all possibilities he's sent them to Moat Cailin and then rode along alone to find Sansa and speak with her and only goes back to them AFTER speaking with Sansa. This gives the Vale army even more time to get to Moat Cailin as it can happen behind the scenes while LF is continuing north.

Except he tells Sansa that the army is AT Moat Cailin when he meets her, not on the way.

Not going to respond/rebutt to your greens...because we could do that all day...and quite frankly, you seem set to buy into what you've invented as to the timeline and how fast or slow things occur. That's fine.

I think you just want something to complain about, so you've created some hoops to jump through of what occurs in the timeframe you were presented via editing and assumptions. I've shown you I can do the same going to other way and giving everyone plenty of time to get where they need to be, and you've rejected it/rebutted it with more assumptions. My point was that if it's not presented directly, you have no way of knowing and nor do I how long things take...but I'm okay with them not showing us every little thing, or explaining every little decision or time skip in a narrative explanation...for such a banal point to be made.

But as to the last point above...so Littlefinger can't just tell her that the Vale army is AT Moat Cailin even if they are "on the way" and fudge that specific note to give her that hope as a solid; or even as a turn of phrase if he's sen them there? You are taking the LYING-EST character on the show...at his word? Really? I'm not sure how to respond to that honestly.

[Abyss]

The timeline is not important,

the timeline is not important,

hi ho bye Daario,

the timeline is not important....

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 28 June 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

But as to the last point above...so Littlefinger can't just tell her that the Vale army is AT Moat Cailin even if they are "on the way" and fudge that specific note to give her that hope as a solid; or even as a turn of phrase if he's sen them there? You are taking the LYING-EST character on the show...at his word? Really? I'm not sure how to respond to that honestly.

Oh yeah, he can absolutely tell her they are already at a key fort guarding access to the north that the Boltons probably don't have unattended given their rebellion from the crown, and assuming that it will be taken and occupied no problem and with no response. He totally could do that.

Heck, he could ride north (alone on a horse vs the carriage he has been using up to that point and arrives at the Vale in) ten seconds after telling Bronze Yohn what to do. And if he does that, he only has a journey three times the distance of Sansa's to cover, leaving Sansa approximately the amount of time it takes for a lone rider (your presumption not mine) riding through enemy territory to get from the Vale to Winterfell (which is the difference in distance between their respective trips). So feel free to watch the scenes at the wall, and see if the conversations makes sense between characters who have already been there together for that much time.


And no, I don't "just want something to complain about". Gorefest specifically asked for something that cannot be explained by lack of chronology. So I did. And to analyze whether it can be explained, one needs to make assumptions about how long things take. Hence me making them. For the most part I am perfectly happy to just laugh off timeline inconsistencies.


They DO MATTER, because they are jarring and take you out of the moment when watching. But I would not count through every little thing, except if someone wants to argue that it all makes sense with offscreen elapsed time

Quote

I've shown you I can do the same going to other way and giving everyone plenty of time to get where they need to be, and you've rejected it/rebutted

I don't think you appreciate how absurd/tortured the assumptions you made to try and justify it are. To put it in context of a prior debate, they are far less plausible that surviving a stab wound in the gut.