[JPK]

worry, on 13 June 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

No way. If I had a baby, I'd let everyone else who's ever been nice to me get slowly lowered into lava to save it.

On the off-chance this is you being serious Worry -it is you after all- I can respect that sentiment very strongly. Hell, my wife is due to deliver my daughter next week. However, the difference here is huge. I've been by my wife's side throughout everything and have grown attached to the child through attachment to my wife. Edmure on the other hand has never had a chance to get attached to either. He was imprisoned on his wedding day, by the father of his bride. While he was getting his marital bliss on, his new father-in-law had every member of his family murdered in a very public fashion and then had him dragged (literally) straight from his wedding bed and put into said imprisonment.

I understand paternal instinct much more than I ever could in the past, and I'm calling bullshit. Maybe if the Freys had exposed him to the child with the purpose of ensnaring him with the paternal instinct... But no, they made it pretty much impossible that it has any chance in hell of forming.

[Coltaine -]

Okay, this episode sucks. Almost completely filler

"I choose violence". WTF. I thought Cersei would send the Mountain murdering every fucking sparrow. And now only one is dead. And not even Lancel
Tommen is a dick as well. He is really trying to kill his mother. And he is turning the Seven Kingdoms in a theocraty. The faith takes the judiciary completely. The faith militant can do what they want and the High Sparrow can give everyone orders.

Riverrun was terrible. I hate Edmure now. And the Blackfish was acting really stupid as well. I hoped for more.

And Arya's storyline ... What was the point of it? Yeah, she is Arya Stark again. And?

I liked the Hound. No Lady Stoneheart. But the Brotherhood will fight White Walkers. So we will probably see more of them in the North. But no Fight of the Clenganes with the trial by combat cancelled. And he is stealing boots from a dying man. I missed him. Good that he is back.

[End of Disc One]

I'm mostly disappointed that the Blackfish didn't swim away like a boss like he did in AFfC. That sucks.

Who wants to bet that Arya teleports to Winterfell at the end of next episode?

[Nevyn]

Coltaine93, on 13 June 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

I hate Edmure now.

You didn't hate him before?

[quote name=''JPK']However' date=' the difference here is huge. I've been by my wife's side throughout everything and have grown attached to the child through attachment to my wife. Edmure on the other hand has never had a chance to get attached to either.[/quote']

Well, lets run the whole thing back.

This is a guy who to his knowledge has lost his father, his sister, and all her children, and whose only remaining relation is an elderly uncle who is likely to die in the siege. How much he does or does not love his wife and child yet are not completely the point, the is also about legacy in a feudal culture
where that is everything. Castles can be retaken. But if Edmure and his child die, that is the end of the Tully's.

And the threat would come as a shock, since the child is also related to the Freys and thus Edmure may have presumed it safe.

Edmure had no real power, and Jamie offered the carrot and the stick. See his wife and kid and have the child raised as a noble, or everyone dies.



They really kind of wasted the Blackfish though.

[Abyss]

Terez, on 13 June 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

RIP:

Blackfish
Waif
Lem Lemoncloak
Lady Crane
Edmure's last shred of dignity

Did I miss anyone? Aside from unnamed people, of course. (Lem counts.)

Sadly we can't add cousin Lancel to that list... I was so hoping Cersei would just order Frankengregor to pulp those idiots. ESPECIALLY when she said 'I chose violence'.

[Abyss]

JPK, on 13 June 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

...Edmure ruined this episode for me. Jaime decides to threaten a wife he hadn't seen since his wedding night and a son he's never met ... There is no way in hell he could have developed a familial bond that trumps his Tully loyalty.

Fuck that entire story.

Familial bond has zero to do with it.

Considering the culture very well established in the series, a son, even one he's never met, is WAY more precious than anything he stood to lose.

And for what little it was worth, Ed was happy about that wedding for about 20minutes before everything went Red.

[Abyss]

Nevyn, on 13 June 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

...
They really kind of wasted the Blackfish though.

The whole subplot, really.

In the books the Blackfish escapes, presumably to show up in Sansa's plotline in a decade or so, and Jaime's semi-redemption flows from how he handles the siege.

This... meh. Waste of time that could have been spent watching Frankengregor rip heads off.

[QuickTidal]

Are we all so sure that just because Beric in the books had to sacrifice himself to resurrect Cat, that the same had to occur here? I mean I can still see this as a possible Ep 10 ending shot revelation. Does it need to have an airtight in-universe explanation? Not at all. After all Arya didn't die of sepsis even though she fell into what is presumably a bacteria riddled canal with multiple puncture wounds in her gut...no explanation needed (apparently). As long as Cat was resurrected in the past (so as to prevent decomposition) and is just off-camera for the time being (possibly with another group of the BwoB)...it's certainly possible. Not saying it's likely...but it's not off the table as a lot of news reports seem to be saying.

Also, I've heard a rumour about a future ep (possibly the next one)...

Spoiler

That Ramsay stands in front of the Stark army and kills Rickon for shits and giggles just to show everyone he continues ot be a terrible asshole...and I'm unsure if that's true. That's a bit on the nose storytelling-wise, if I'm honest and it would bug me to see it...not because I care about Rickon...but because it's just another silly mark in the "Ramsay is the worst asshole and must die" plotline which already has too many of those.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 13 June 2016 - 03:03 PM

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 13 June 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

Are we all so sure that just because Beric in the books had to sacrifice himself to resurrect Cat, that the same had to occur here? I mean I can still see this as a possible Ep 10 ending shot revelation. Does it need to have an airtight in-universe explanation? Not at all. After all Arya didn't die of sepsis even though she fell into what is presumably a bacteria riddled canal with multiple puncture wounds in her gut...no explanation needed (apparently). As long as Cat was resurrected in the past (so as to prevent decomposition) and is just off-camera for the time being (possibly with another group of the BwoB)...it's certainly possible. Not saying it's likely...but it's not off the table as a lot of news reports seem to be saying.

Also, I've heard a rumour about a future ep (possibly the next one)...

Spoiler

That Ramsay stands in front of the Stark army and kills Rickon for shits and giggles just to show everyone he continues ot be a terrible asshole...and I'm unsure if that's true. That's a bit on the nose storytelling-wise, if I'm honest and it would bug me to see it...not because I care about Rickon...but because it's just another silly mark in the "Ramsay is the worst asshole and must die" plotline which already has too many of those.

No, it doesn't need to be Beric. But the moment seems to have passed. Stoneheart is not just resurrected by Beric, she takes his place leading the brotherhood. Here, the brotherhood still follow him, and seem to have a purpose thought out. It would be really weird if there was already a Stoneheart offscreen. For a moment I wondered if they would just delay her revival as they delayed the iron islands plot, but she has seriously been rotting awhile now. And it only looked like she would come in because Freys and Brienne and Jamie at Riverun were back in play, but Brienne is leaving, and Jamie headed back to KL soon.

That rumour could be true, would be in character, and would not just be for laughs, but to incite the smaller army to charge. We know some people are going to be flayed and burned, and the wildlings will charge

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 13 June 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

No, it doesn't need to be Beric. But the moment seems to have passed. Stoneheart is not just resurrected by Beric, she takes his place leading the brotherhood. Here, the brotherhood still follow him, and seem to have a purpose thought out. It would be really weird if there was already a Stoneheart offscreen. For a moment I wondered if they would just delay her revival as they delayed the iron islands plot, but she has seriously been rotting awhile now. And it only looked like she would come in because Freys and Brienne and Jamie at Riverun were back in play, but Brienne is leaving, and Jamie headed back to KL soon.

That rumour could be true, would be in character, and would not just be for laughs, but to incite the smaller army to charge. We know some people are going to be flayed and burned, and the wildlings will charge

Right, but Beric could be a lieutenant under her at this point and we just don't know it. Like I said, it's not exactly likely...but there are at least a few different ways she could be brought back in...and beyond that we have no idea what GRRM had planned as an endgame for her in the books anyways. I'm sure the showrunners do know that...and as a result either she's on the cutting room floor (likely), or being saved for an end-of-season GASP moment (less likely but still possible).

[Terez]

Those rumors discussed by Qyburn and Cersei. What rumors were those? Wildfire stashes? Why couldn't she just ask the pyromancers about it? If not wildfire, then what?

Nevyn, on 13 June 2016 - 03:27 AM, said:

Betting Varys heads to Dorne and that is how they bring them back in to the story.

I dunno. It makes sense, of course, but I suspect the show doesn't plan on bothering with Dorne any more. I hope I'm wrong. Kevan and Pycelle will be gone by the end of the season, though.

End of Disc One, on 13 June 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

I'm mostly disappointed that the Blackfish didn't swim away like a boss like he did in AFfC. That sucks.

I don't mind. The showrunners probably couldn't think of a compelling reason to keep him around, and it is his home, and fitting for him to die defending it. Why does he always have to be the guy running away?

It occurs to me, though, that by the end of this season they won't have any book material to work with at all. Even the early chapters of WOW will be covered, so far as they can be covered with so many of the characters dead or written out in the show. So next season will be the first season that is truly and completely past the books.

End of Disc One, on 13 June 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

Who wants to bet that Arya teleports to Winterfell at the end of next episode?

I'm hoping she joins the Brotherhood. But it would be nice if she takes out Ramsey.

Abyss, on 13 June 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

Terez, on 13 June 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

RIP:

Blackfish
Waif
Lem Lemoncloak
Lady Crane
Edmure's last shred of dignity

Did I miss anyone? Aside from unnamed people, of course. (Lem counts.)

Sadly we can't add cousin Lancel to that list... I was so hoping Cersei would just order Frankengregor to pulp those idiots. ESPECIALLY when she said 'I choose violence'.

We still need Lancel to clue Jaime into Cersei's awfulness.

QuickTidal, on 13 June 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

Are we all so sure that just because Beric in the books had to sacrifice himself to resurrect Cat, that the same had to occur here?

Terez, on 13 June 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

Of course, there's always the possibility that Thoros just resurrected her himself...

[Nevyn]

Terez, on 13 June 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Those rumors discussed by Qyburn and Cersei. What rumors were those? Wildfire stashes? Why couldn't she just ask the pyromancers about it? If not wildfire, then what?

Could be anything. Best bet would be a secret about the high sparrow, but could be who really killed Joffrey, could be wildfire, info about Dorne, Sansa or Tyrion's location

Quote

I dunno. It makes sense, of course, but I suspect the show doesn't plan on bothering with Dorne any more. I hope I'm wrong. Kevan and Pycelle will be gone by the end of the season, though.

I get the Dorne story was a flop, but it would be odd to just pretend one of the seven kingdoms did not exist for the remainder of the show, especially given the mutual acrimony involved. Dorne has not managed to incite an invasion, and really can't threaten to conquer more on its own. But stands to be a perfect ally for a Targaryen, which would also bring it back round a bit to the books.

Quote

I don't mind. The showrunners probably couldn't think of a compelling reason to keep him around, and it is his home, and fitting for him to die defending it. Why does he always have to be the guy running away?

They need to slowly narrow scope. I am fine with him dying. Just dying offscreen and pointlessly is a tad weak.

[Terez]

I don't really get the need to see him die on screen, either. I mean, if he had, it would just be bloody and tragic. I don't mind that they left his last stand to the imagination. YMMV.

[Terez]

Nevyn, on 13 June 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

Terez, on 13 June 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

I dunno. It makes sense, of course, but I suspect the show doesn't plan on bothering with Dorne any more. I hope I'm wrong. Kevan and Pycelle will be gone by the end of the season, though.

I get the Dorne story was a flop, but it would be odd to just pretend one of the seven kingdoms did not exist for the remainder of the show, especially given the mutual acrimony involved. Dorne has not managed to incite an invasion, and really can't threaten to conquer more on its own. But stands to be a perfect ally for a Targaryen, which would also bring it back round a bit to the books.

I just rewatched that scene, and now I'm sure you're right. Varys said he was going for support and ships. I knew I needed to rewatch that scene because I got a subscription email right at that time when BK posted about Lady Crane so I was momentarily distracted.

I suppose him killing Kevan and Pycelle would be redundant anyway if Cersei torches the whole city. Still not sure that will happen this season, though. Are we really going to have 2 seasons after that happens, even short ones?

This post has been edited by Terez: 13 June 2016 - 06:34 PM

[Terez]

Her name is Tyene. Though I guess you could go with your dragon naming conventions and call them spear, whip, and tits.

[Nevyn]

Coonass, on 13 June 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

I also disagree that Bronn/Pod scene was to over the top/long/forced etc. it was the best thing about that Ep.

It was funny, but clumsy. Filler humour from two characters who otherwise had nothing to do in the episode, simply because they are paying the actors darnit.

[End of Disc One]

I also enjoyed the Bronn/Pod scene and had no problem with it.

[Terez]

I made the mistake of watching a video of Pod's actor at some con or another. Gemma Whelan was also there. Anyway, Pod is kind of an asshole in real life. I could only watch a few minutes of that before I had to kill it.

[Nevyn]

Terez, on 13 June 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 13 June 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

Terez, on 13 June 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

I dunno. It makes sense, of course, but I suspect the show doesn't plan on bothering with Dorne any more. I hope I'm wrong. Kevan and Pycelle will be gone by the end of the season, though.

I get the Dorne story was a flop, but it would be odd to just pretend one of the seven kingdoms did not exist for the remainder of the show, especially given the mutual acrimony involved. Dorne has not managed to incite an invasion, and really can't threaten to conquer more on its own. But stands to be a perfect ally for a Targaryen, which would also bring it back round a bit to the books.

I just rewatched that scene, and now I'm sure you're right. Varys said he was going for support and ships. I knew I needed to rewatch that scene because I got a subscription email right at that time when BK posted about Lady Crane so I was momentarily distracted.

I suppose him killing Kevan and Pycelle would be redundant anyway if Cersei torches the whole city. Still not sure that will happen this season, though. Are we really going to have 2 seasons after that happens, even short ones?

Yes, it was the looking for support that made me think Dorne. I suppose it could be the iron islands to negotiate with Euron as well, or other free cities, but to me Dorne is more likely.

[Traveller]

I thought the Wildfire was the subject of the Cersei/Qyburn conversation. 'More. Much more.'

Could easily be something else, but I think following Brans visions and Cersei's loss of Tommen as well as her now rigged trial will tip her over. It also ties in with Danys vision of the future throne room.

There was even yet another line in this episode, from Jaime this time, about burning cities to the ground - the others all coming from Cersei previously.

No Cat now and it's not likely at all is my guess. Don't know what George had planned for her but it seems unnecessary to bring her in this late stage with so much other stuff to resolve in some way.

Aryas story was rather unsatisfying and simple after reading all those clever and intricate theories for a week.
Nope, she just got stabbed. Which means she was walking around in broad daylight throwing cash about. Without needle. And got stabbed and chucked in a river.

Then she goes back to Jaqen, with needle, and he says 'Now you're no one.' Wtf, she's just proved that she's not.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 13 June 2016 - 08:40 PM