[blackzoid]

I have questions on that opener.

1: Has Cersei and the showrunners forgotten about her black haired 4th child? It seems like they have.
2: How is Tyrion ruling Meereen? Did Dany grant him that power? Seems fishy. What right does he have to that power?
3: Why didnt the Sandsnakes kill Jaime on the boot too?
4: Who rules Dorne now? Are not the Sand Snakes and Eliara all illegitimate?

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 26 April 2016 - 10:05 AM

[Andorion]

blackzoid, on 26 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

I have questions on that opener.

1: Has Cersei and the showrunners forgotten about her black haired 4th child? It seems like they have.
2: How is Tyrion ruling Meereen? Did Dany grant him that power? Seems fishy. What right does he have to that power?
3: Why didnt the Sandsnakes kill Jaime on the boot too?
4: Who rules Dorne now? Are not the Sand Snakes and Eliara all illegitimate?

1. No clue
2. Tyrion was a part of her inner council. I don't thin he is ruling it alone, I think they are doing it as a group.
3&4. Normal rules of reality don't seem to apply to Dorne anymore

[QuickTidal]

blackzoid, on 26 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

I have questions on that opener.
3: Why didnt the Sandsnakes kill Jaime on the boot too?

As noted upthread, they WANT war with the Lannisters. They left him be becasue they want him to go home and rile the home forces.

[Terez]

Abyss, on 26 April 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

Terez, on 26 April 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

What?

Book Dorne hasn't exactly been tearing up its enemies. Their last big plan got BBQ'd.

Sure, but I wouldn't call it farcical. It's good writing at least.

[Werthead]

That was a very mixed bag of an episode. Some good stuff - Liam Cunningham as Davos has become the show's heart and soul, and the Theon/Brienne/Sansa stuff was wonderfully shot - and some extraordinarily awful. The Dorne storyline in the show has been mishandled since the start of last season and now it's become an appalling caricature of itself. This episode was also full to overflowing with plot holes and continuity errors that made it hard to take seriously: Mel has taken off her necklace many times before and not changed appearance; the teleporting dogs in the Bolton fight scene; the teleporting Sand Snakes; Jaime showing zero interest in anything that's happened to Cersei; Thorne and co not dealing with Jon's body right there and then; the whole candle thing from Season 5 turning out to be utterly irrelevant and so forth.

Quote

Sure, but I wouldn't call it farcical. It's good writing at least.

Yeah, the Dorne stuff in the books was decent. The only major complaint I'd voice about that is that George shouldn't have faffed around with the POVs. Just have Arianne as the only POV in that story and not mess around with Areo and Arys Oakheart and you'd have a stronger and more focused storyline. The way it was handled was pretty good, setting them up to ally with Dany but now moving them towards Aegon (and that'll become certain with news of Quentyn's death).

The Dorne storyline on TV, on the other hand, has been a complete and unmitigated disaster since Oberyn's death. Why the hell cast an actor as talented as Alexander Siddig as Doran Martell if you are not going to give him his best material from the books and then kill him after he's only had about ten lines in the whole series? And in the TV show House Martell has just been rendered extinct. Are the other Dornish houses going to fall into civil war? They'll never follow Ellaria or her children as rulers (they have no legal rights of inheritance under Dornish law).

Quote

we had one dude in there who was happy about the Melisandre scene because he's known about it for 5 years and had to keep it secret

You mean it was someone who'd read ADWD? ADWD made it clear that Melisandre was way older than she appeared, and in fact there were theories around even before then that she is Melissa Blackwood, Bloodraven's mother who was also into sorcery and stuff (the theory is that after Aegon IV's death, or maybe before, she ended up going east and getting sold into slavery in Asshai).

[Terez]

No, age doesn't always equal an older appearance in fantasy.

Edit: you probably know this guy Wert. I will find out who it was.

Edit 2: It was John Picacio.

This post has been edited by Terez: 26 April 2016 - 01:13 PM

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 26 April 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

blackzoid, on 26 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

I have questions on that opener.
3: Why didnt the Sandsnakes kill Jaime on the boot too?

As noted upthread, they WANT war with the Lannisters. They left him be becasue they want him to go home and rile the home forces.

Ok, that's just silly. They can't have their war if they kill another Lannister? Sure they can.

And why do they want war? Because they want revenge. One of their best outcomes for a war would be killing Lannisters

[Nevyn]

blackzoid, on 26 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

I have questions on that opener.

1: Has Cersei and the showrunners forgotten about her black haired 4th child? It seems like they have.
2: How is Tyrion ruling Meereen? Did Dany grant him that power? Seems fishy. What right does he have to that power?
3: Why didnt the Sandsnakes kill Jaime on the boot too?
4: Who rules Dorne now? Are not the Sand Snakes and Eliara all illegitimate?

1. Were they meant to not forget?
2. Addressed at the end of last year. Tyrion is making decisions because he has the mind for it. Grey Worm (her military commander) and Missandei (her closest confidante) give the situation legitimacy with the people.
3. Because the show wants to do something else with Jamie and didn't want to waste a lot of screentime on Dorne.
4. We'll see. But Dorne seems to lack legitimate heirs, and the show has taken pains to point out that bastards are more commonly acknowledged and well treated in Dorne.

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 26 April 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

Doesn't mean I'm wrong.

It doesn't mean that, but you still are

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 26 April 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

Abyss, on 26 April 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

Doesn't mean I'm wrong.

It doesn't mean that, but you still are

He's really not.

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 26 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

He's really not.

You really shouldn't have picked a lightsaber battle with me. I just picked one up for the first time today, but I used to carry a staff around so I'm clearly going to kick your butt despite you having trained for years and having a distinct reach advantage,

[Terez]

By the way, the Melisandre reveal makes me think she's going to die soon. That would also fit with her first POV in ADWD. Maybe we'll get some kind of Nissa Nissa parallel in the upcoming episodes. As for its significance, which was questioned earlier (by Gorefest I think)...her physical appearance only matters because she uses her beauty to gain influence. She used it on Stannis, she tried to use it on Davos, and she tried to use it on Jon, and she probably will again.

Edit: The Atlantic did a good article on this. I was going to link it when I made this post but I was too lazy to search for it. But it just showed up in my feed again, so...

This post has been edited by Terez: 26 April 2016 - 02:27 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 26 April 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 26 April 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

Abyss, on 26 April 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

Doesn't mean I'm wrong.

It doesn't mean that, but you still are

He's really not.

Ok, ok, everyone settle down, we can agree to disagree.

....Also, I'm right.

Quote

Quote

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

As expected, Dorne was a mess. Literally everyone of the SS are bastards. Who rules Dorne? How did the two SS get into the ship with Trystane? Why the hell was he still in the ship? None of this made any sense.

Doran gasped out Trystane 's name when he died. Best guess he had come back already. But yeah, that was wildly vague.

But why would Trystane come back? That whole story makes zero sense. In Season 5 Myrcell dies in In Jaime's arms. J isn't an idiot, he knew the Dornish had something to do with it. At this point T is on the same damn ship. So J has two courses of action - take T to KL and use him a hostage against Doran or kill him. Why would he send him back? If he did take T to KL why was T still in the ship?

Yeah, there they really needed one scene of Jaime being all 'wah she's dead but she loved you so go home and i'll kill you later' or something.

Ok, I got nothing, it was a plotting hack job .

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

blackzoid, on 26 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

I have questions on that opener.

1: Has Cersei and the showrunners forgotten about her black haired 4th child? It seems like they have.
...

1. No clue
2. Tyrion was a part of her inner council. I don't thin he is ruling it alone, I think they are doing it as a group.
...

Wait, what fourth kid? - Wasn't he stillborn I the books and never in the show?

Werthead, on 26 April 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

... Thorne and co not dealing with Jon's body right there and then; ...

I suspect the point was to send a message to those still loyal to Jon, but yeah, bad plan is bad.

Quote

Yeah, the Dorne stuff in the books was decent. The only major complaint I'd voice about that is that George shouldn't have faffed around with the POVs. Just have Arianne as the only POV in that story and not mess around with Areo and Arys Oakheart and you'd have a stronger and more focused storyline. The way it was handled was pretty good, setting them up to ally with Dany but now moving them towards Aegon (and that'll become certain with news of Quentyn's death).

The Dorne storyline on TV, on the other hand, has been a complete and unmitigated disaster since Oberyn's death. Why the hell cast an actor as talented as Alexander Siddig as Doran Martell if you are not going to give him his best material from the books and then kill him after he's only had about ten lines in the whole series? And in the TV show House Martell has just been rendered extinct. Are the other Dornish houses going to fall into civil war? They'll never follow Ellaria or her children as rulers (they have no legal rights of inheritance under Dornish law).

All true but easily handwaved. If they want the SSnakes leading Dorne to war (or whatever), they can make it happen as easily as a spear to the face.

Nevyn, on 26 April 2016 - 01:09 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 26 April 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

blackzoid, on 26 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

I have questions on that opener.
3: Why didnt the Sandsnakes kill Jaime on the boot too?

As noted upthread, they WANT war with the Lannisters. They left him be becasue they want him to go home and rile the home forces.

Ok, that's just silly. They can't have their war if they kill another Lannister? Sure they can.

And why do they want war? Because they want revenge. One of their best outcomes for a war would be killing Lannisters

True. Jaime isn't quite at the top of his game any more tho', and they needed the coup to happen.

Look, that's what I got.

[Terez]

Abyss, on 26 April 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

Andorion, on 26 April 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

blackzoid, on 26 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

I have questions on that opener.

1: Has Cersei and the showrunners forgotten about her black haired 4th child? It seems like they have.
...

1. No clue
2. Tyrion was a part of her inner council. I don't thin he is ruling it alone, I think they are doing it as a group.
...

Wait, what fourth kid? - Wasn't he stillborn I the books and never in the show?

He didn't exist in the books, as far as I know. She just told the story to Catelyn in the show after Bran fell to try to show empathy. I think. My memories of that are very vague. In the story, she actually loved Robert at that time, or wanted to; in the books, she never loved him and took pains to make sure she never bore his child.

[amphibian]

There's a certain lighting/makeup pattern in the episode (to me at least). Certain characters shown after Jon have a pallor to them that's much closer to Jon's dead body than their normal appearance. Melisande is one (when shown as old lady), Ramsay is another, and Thorne is the third I noticed. It might just be a coincidence or it could mean those are there ones that will die.

[blackzoid]

Thanks for answers guys.
Tyrions position makes more sense to me now and seems logical. Dornish stuff is less so.

[Nevyn]

On the Tristane thing I am still not even sure if that happened in Dorne or at King's Landing.

If I cared enough I'd rewatch.

I mean, he was on the boat to King's Landing at the end of last season, and when the sand snakes show up he is painting stones for eyes for a burial ... presumably for Myrcella.

On the other hand, if he is in the boat moored off King's Landing still, how did the Sand Snakes catch up and sneak aboard?

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 26 April 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

On the other hand, if he is in the boat moored off King's Landing still, how did the Sand Snakes catch up and sneak aboard?

There are 8 of them total, and those two weren't in the scene on Dorne.

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 26 April 2016 - 03:54 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 26 April 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

On the other hand, if he is in the boat moored off King's Landing still, how did the Sand Snakes catch up and sneak aboard?

There are 8 of them total, and those two weren't in the scene on Dorne.

Only 3 in the show, and those two were on the dock watching him leave at the end of last season. Possible they followed on another boat and then snuck aboard, just unexplained by the story.

[Terez]

amphibian, on 26 April 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

There's a certain lighting/makeup pattern in the episode (to me at least). Certain characters shown after Jon have a pallor to them that's much closer to Jon's dead body than their normal appearance. Melisandre is one (when shown as old lady), Ramsay is another, and Thorne is the third I noticed. It might just be a coincidence or it could mean those are there ones that will die.

I am about to rewatch it with my mother, who hasn't seen it yet. I'll keep an eye out for it.