[Terez]

I think most of us are on the Cersei wildfire train. My only question was why she needed Qyburn to investigate this for her when she could have just asked the pyromancers about it. If they don't know where the stashes are, who would?

[Tatterdemalion]

Terez, on 13 June 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

I think most of us are on the Cersei wildfire train. My only question was why she needed Qyburn to investigate this for her when she could have just asked the pyromancers about it. If they don't know where the stashes are, who would?

I agree. But still think it's wildfire. Just a way of letting the audience know she's got a trick up her sleeve.

Is there a hint back in the scene where Qyburn gives the kids candy and sends them out to spy?

[Traveller]

Were there any of the original pyromancers left though? The ones now in those roles might not have been the ones to hide the original stashes?

[Tatterdemalion]

All other complaints are but gnats compared to what that Arya scene COULD have been.

EVEN having her lure Waif into the dark, draws Needle.
Then we see Waif come out of the chamber, grim and hurting - but no Arya.
We follow Waif back to the House. She meets J'quqhajyn. She says life has paid for death. He nods, satisfied.
Waif takes her face off to reveal Arya, who actually won the duel. She has Needle. She says she's leaving.
J'quqhaiyn says something cryptic, she stalks out badass.

Even THAT is better, without fixing the Terminator and without fixing the drastic loss of tension and missed opportunity of having Arya chased through the streets by a faceless person who could be anyone, than what they did. SO MUCH TO FIX IN THAT 'FINALE'. Guh.

I almost never complain about Game of Thrones.
As far as I'm concerned seasons 1-4 were damned perfect, and everything in 5 was perfect minus the Dorne storyline.
This season has been great too, but this limp noodle makes me wish Areo Hotah was still kicking it. COULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH COOLER.

[Terez]

Tatterdemalion, on 13 June 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

Terez, on 13 June 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

I think most of us are on the Cersei wildfire train. My only question was why she needed Qyburn to investigate this for her when she could have just asked the pyromancers about it. If they don't know where the stashes are, who would?

I agree. But still think it's wildfire. Just a way of letting the audience know she's got a trick up her sleeve.

Is there a hint back in the scene where Qyburn gives the kids candy and sends them out to spy?

Yeah, I'm just unsure why the kids would be more helpful in finding out about this than the pyromancers.

Traveller, on 13 June 2016 - 08:43 PM, said:

Were there any of the original pyromancers left though? The ones now in those roles might not have been the ones to hide the original stashes?

The ones Tyrion talked to in season 2 were around for Aerys. Maybe they're dead now? Who knows. But even if the ones from the Aerys era are dead, you'd still think they'd know more about it than anyone else. Unless Qyburn's kids are gutter rats who hide in tunnels underneath the city, or something. But I still got the impression that Qyburn's birds will turn on him just as soon as Varys makes contact, assuming Varys ever lost contact.

Coonass, on 13 June 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

She's not Queen anymore. Maybe they would tell her to go get fucked if she asked.

Yeah, that's my best guess, that they will only answer to Tommen or Kevan. Cersei has no real power since Tommen has cut her out of the loop. (Joffrey kept her in, for the most part.)

[worry]

I don't think Blackfish was wasted, I just think he served -- along with Edmure -- the season-long theme of generational changes that are occurring, in terms of the social order. It's interesting because in a way Edmure was the traditionalist here, and his men sticking to the proper social order was Riverrun's downfall. It was Blackfish who wanted to shunt the social order aside, and the order didn't let him. A lot of the season -- and Jaime is one of the epicenters of this, since he doesn't play the game -- is just how empty it's always been. It's a farce: Ned's nobility, Robert's rebellion, Tywin's family legacy. The pretense of legitimacy in all its forms (no surprise the Battle of the Bastards is happening this season). All of the foundations of this social order are as legitimate as, say, trial by combat.

[Andorion]

Regarding the Cersei and Qyburn thing, my theory is that she is talking about one of the original caches of Wildfire hidden by the Mad King which may have been forgotten. Qyburn's kids have now located it.


Overall the episode was good but not great.

The Arya part was completely unrealistic. Starting from the Terminator Waif to how Arya should clearly be dead, I did not like it at all

The Hound on the other hand was gold. Best lines, good delivery. Too bad about LSH but it was unlikely to happen this late.

Brienne and Jaime was excellent. I actually liked Jaime a lot in this episode including how he could turn the darkness on for Edmure. while simultaneously waving goodbye to Brienne.

Also I think this episode may be the crux of a change in Jaime. He believes in Cersei. He believes she will do anytihng for her children. And when Cersei kills Tommen as is likely to happen, Jaime will snap

[Terez]

Andorion, on 14 June 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

Regarding the Cersei and Qyburn thing, my theory is that she is talking about one of the original caches of Wildfire hidden by the Mad King which may have been forgotten. Qyburn's kids have now located it.

It has to be more than one. Cersei said, "Is it just a rumor, or something more?" And Qyburn says, "More. Much more." That's not just one stash, unless they've simply discovered that there's a huge amount under the Sept in particular. I'm sure the Sept is her target.

[Andorion]

Terez, on 14 June 2016 - 12:41 AM, said:

Andorion, on 14 June 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

Regarding the Cersei and Qyburn thing, my theory is that she is talking about one of the original caches of Wildfire hidden by the Mad King which may have been forgotten. Qyburn's kids have now located it.

It has to be more than one. Cersei said, "Is it just a rumor, or something more?" And Qyburn says, "More. Much more." That's not just one stash, unless they've simply discovered that there's a huge amount under the Sept in particular. I'm sure the Sept is her target.

I don't doubt it will be a lot. The Mad King did try to burn the entire city after all. Maybe they found one stash under the sept and others scattered around. IN fact this could be the source of the cataclysm. They detonate the sept cache but the fire spreads to the others, engulfing the whole city

[LinearPhilosopher]

Andorion, on 14 June 2016 - 01:11 AM, said:

Terez, on 14 June 2016 - 12:41 AM, said:

Andorion, on 14 June 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

Regarding the Cersei and Qyburn thing, my theory is that she is talking about one of the original caches of Wildfire hidden by the Mad King which may have been forgotten. Qyburn's kids have now located it.

It has to be more than one. Cersei said, "Is it just a rumor, or something more?" And Qyburn says, "More. Much more." That's not just one stash, unless they've simply discovered that there's a huge amount under the Sept in particular. I'm sure the Sept is her target.

I don't doubt it will be a lot. The Mad King did try to burn the entire city after all. Maybe they found one stash under the sept and others scattered around. IN fact this could be the source of the cataclysm. They detonate the sept cache but the fire spreads to the others, engulfing the whole city

all this effort for a stupid iron chair, meanwhile frost zombies coming to kill everyone

I love this show, i keep coming back for more but i can't get over how silly everything looks in perspective.

[Gorefest]

That's the whole point, though. The books and the series even start off showing us the Others/White Walkers and the wights/zombies in the very prologue. But nobody in Westeros believes in these things anymore as it has been generations ago that the previous uprise happened and those tales have drifted to the realms of mythology and fairytales. The beauty of the series is that every reader/viewer knows what the Big Bad is, but hardly any of the book/show characters are aware of it. So they keep getting drawn into petty in-fighting while the whole world is about to be pummeled. It's a great premise and GRRM is a master in making us care and get involved mostly in the squabbles between the various Houses, even though we all know that it is really just a side show to a far greater threat. It's a masterclass in going "Here's the horrific TRUTH!!! Now, all of you, look at the monkey. Look at the monkey. Isn't he cute?"

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 14 June 2016 - 11:40 AM

[Primateus]

I sorta liked this episode. I was, admittedly, thinking that the hunt was the perfect time for Syrio Forel to return, simply because I really want him to not be dead.

[Nevyn]

Primateus, on 14 June 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

I sorta liked this episode. I was, admittedly, thinking that the hunt was the perfect time for Syrio Forel to return, simply because I really want him to not be dead.

Part of me still thinks there is a revelation to come with him (perhaps even being Jaqen). Don't know what the exact goal is, but very much doubt the faceless men really expected Aria to stay and become no one.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I'm with most of what's already been said now I've watched it.

Cersei/Qyburn is wildfire. I'm hoping this plays into a rather poetic theory I came across which is that Cersei's death at Jaime's hand will be the same as Aerys' - to stop her destroying KL.

Arya was naff for me. It took far too long to get to this point if that's all that was going to happen. I'm of the opinion if those circumstances happened to any other character they'd be very dead. Arya's plot armour is wearing a bit thin for me. Hopefully though if she is going home things will pick up.

Brienne and Jaime were fantastic. I think the show has done a terrific job of their relationship. Also, Nikolai Coster-Waldau might be my favourite piece of casting. Particularly in the later series he's given Jaime so much nuance.

Also, Hound. So good to have him and his best lines in the show back.

[Terez]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 June 2016 - 09:55 PM, said:

Nikolai Coster-Waldau might be my favourite piece of casting. Particularly in the later series he's given Jaime so much nuance.

I thought he was godawful in the first season; he really overdid the snide voice to the point of eye-rolling. But he toned it down at some point, between seasons 2 and 3, and eventually I was able to appreciate his acting skills.

[amphibian]

I thought he was pretty good in the first season and then among the best consistently from season two onwards.

He's been given a wide range of scenes with varying levels of directors and consistently finds a way to be compelling when on screen.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Yeah, I'd agree for the first series or so. I think everything during and post his travels with Brienne has been super for me though.

Best way I can describe it is that he's made Jaime engaging for me in a way he never really was in the books.

Think it was Andorion mentioned the likelihood of Cersei killing Tommen - I hadn't given Tommen too much thought before tonight but that would be a great way to bring about the close of the "gold will be their shrouds" prophecy.

[Terez]

Well, he can hardly have a shroud if he's vaporized by wildfire. And despite what's going on now, it's hard to see Cersei killing him on purpose. He's all she's got left. I'm not sure how else he would die, though. Varys?

[worry]

The odds-on favorite to kill Tommen is the Mountain, but I've never heard a detailed reasoning; just the poetic justice of Cersei's creation killing her last kid. I wonder how that could/would play out. Is there a circumstance under which the Mountain kills Tommen without a direct order?

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Terez, on 14 June 2016 - 10:12 PM, said:

Well, he can hardly have a shroud if he's vaporized by wildfire. And despite what's going on now, it's hard to see Cersei killing him on purpose. He's all she's got left. I'm not sure how else he would die, though. Varys?

[to tune of show's "A lion still has claws"]:

A shroud of golden flames....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 June 2016 - 01:48 AM