[Terez]

If Drogon is Dany's, then I expect Jon to get Rhaegal (Green), since his father was Rhaegar and all. I still think Drogon will be Jon's, though. Big black dragon? He'll fit right in at the Night's Watch.

This post has been edited by Terez: 04 May 2016 - 03:02 AM

[Andorion]

Heh I am trying to imagine the faces of the Nights Watch if Jon introduces Drogon as the newest addition..."What? He isn't even a wildling!"

I agree Thorne is the most likely. Jon will have to deal with the mutineers next episode and Thorne has to go.

Ramsay... dies after the battle. I think he will be injured in the battle, he will flee back into Winterfell, fall into the kennels, and as he is too injured to whistle properly the dogs will get him

Cersei - if this season, then episode 9 or 10. My personal interpretation of the Valonqar is Tyrion riding in on a dragon, jumping off and strangling her in mid air
....though Jaime does seem more likely.

There was a lot of Riverland hype preseason due to Blackfish and Edmure returning but I can't see either Brienne or Jaime going there without the Bolton/Sparrow issue being settled first.

What bothers me is we have not seen Littlefinger yet. What the hell is he upto now?

I am willing to bet that Arya now joins an entertainment group, probably as a spy of the FM, but, in their company, regains her old personality adn travels with them back to Westeros

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I'm in agreement with the fact it was Mel's desperate "please" that did the trick. Thoros in the show said you had to ask - she did.

I am a hopeful in the Tyrion being a Targ camp (as long as Aegon is fake - which I think he is. You can definitely overdo it). I like the symmetry of Jaime and Tyrion killing each other's fathers unknowingly, and I also like the irony of "Tyrion is Tywin's true son" - because how much would it gall Tywin that the one son who took after him wasn't actually his? It also flies in the face of all Tywin's pronouncements of him being a Lannister any time he did anything not-terrible for Tyrion.

I hope it's Tyrion and not the twins anyway. Cersei has been cheapened enough as a character - let's not add Targ crazy too. I also don't like it as a reason for the incest - she says that the Targaryen's did it for years, so why shouldn't they to Ned, and that's fine as it is for me.

Also going to miss Roose, mostly because I think the actor did such a great job, but I also agree that passing the Bolton claim and army to Ramsay is the single quickest way the show can topple them. Roose was clever enough to hold the North, if grudgingly. Ramsay certainly isn't.

[Traveller]

I think it's possible Jon will spare Alliser - and leave the Nights Watch. His return will totally blow them all away; he's hopefully learned the need for a coherent NW, so will leave Alliser in charge, and then take Ghost and the now totally loyal Wildlings south with him.

Thorne will likely then fall when the Walkers arrive.

Really the should all just be mining dragonglass and making a fuckload of arrows with glass tips.

(The 'gift' is intriguing. It could be Rickon - did anyone else notice two burning figures on Ramseys side at the beginning of a battle?)

[Terez]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 04 May 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

I am a hopeful in the Tyrion being a Targ camp (as long as Aegon is fake - which I think he is. You can definitely overdo it).

I mean, they cut him from the show entirely. That says a lot. I never read up very thoroughly on the fake-Aegon theories but I always figured he'd be irrelevant, maybe by dying before the time came for him to be important, though there was a certain appeal to Aegon winning out over Dany (the three strongest non-Targaryen Houses in Westeros mixed with Targaryen blood). It's just bad storytelling to build up certain people and have them overshadowed by someone literally out of nowhere in the last half of the series.

The early POV characters are always going to be the ones that keep people reading; those are the people we fall in love with. Ned and Catelyn were the darlings he set up to be killed early on. The prologue and epilogue POVs always die, and it's always that person's only POV. Other than that, all the POV characters from books 1-3 are still alive. At least one or two of them will probably die at the end, but these are our main characters: Dany, Jon, Bran, Arya, Sansa, Tyrion. Theon and Davos join in book 2. Jaime and Sam join in book 3.

Brienne and Cersei join in book 4, and that's a mixed bag (though they're both still alive, for now), but the only POV characters in AFFC who have died are Aerys Oakheart (books only) and Areo Hotah (who is only dead in the show), though Aeron's whereabouts are unknown in the books. (Of course, Arianne and Victarion don't exist in the show, but they're still alive in the books.) In ADWD, we get Quentyn (books only), Barristan Selmy (only dead in the show), Jon Connington (books only, has greyscale), and Melisandre.

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 04 May 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

I like the symmetry of Jaime and Tyrion killing each other's fathers unknowingly...

Ooh, never thought about it like that.

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 04 May 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

I hope it's Tyrion and not the twins anyway. Cersei has been cheapened enough as a character - let's not add Targ crazy too. I also don't like it as a reason for the incest - she says that the Targaryen's did it for years, so why shouldn't they to Ned, and that's fine as it is for me.

I wouldn't mind if it was all of them. I like aspects of both theories so it makes no difference to me. I like impotent Tywin and I like Tyrion being the special one. The only scenario I don't like is where Tyrion is the only legit Lannister of the three.

Traveller, on 04 May 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

I think it's possible Jon will spare Alliser - and leave the Nights Watch. His return will totally blow them all away; he's hopefully learned the need for a coherent NW, so will leave Alliser in charge, and then take Ghost and the now totally loyal Wildlings south with him.

It's possible, but I don't like the idea of Jon leaving the Night's Watch altogether at all. You have to assume that it's going to play a major role in the ending of this series because the Night's Watch was created to fight the True Enemy. And Jon was apparently resurrected by the powers of the True Enemy's archrival god. But, going by the books, it seems he's at least going to turn his back on his duties momentarily to fight the Stark war. GRRM made that the reason for his assassination; B&W went with the Wildlings. But he's going to do it either way.

I just think Jon is the kind of character that is designed to transcend rules. Everyone seems to see his position with the Night's Watch as holding him back from loftier duties, but the truth is that his loftiest duty is at the Wall. If he unites the North, it's going to be for the purpose of the war beyond the Wall, not to take the Iron Throne. The North remembers its duty. Winter is coming.

Tyrion understands that duty because he has been to the Wall. That's another reason why he's a dragonrider. Hardcore GRRM fans like GRRM because he's anti-tropey so I think they undersell the really obvious stuff that GRRM foreshadowed in book 1. There were even a lot of them who refused to believe R+L=J, which by the way is similar if not entirely comparable to my hatred for (WoT spoilers):

Spoiler

... the bodyswap theory;

I found it too obvious and too easy. But I think most people have come around since B&W revealed that their answer was a condition of their hire.

I don't think Tyrion=Targ is overdoing it. There are three dragons; that's where the limit should be. Aegon, probably overdoing it, though the three dragonriders were so well-foreshadowed, I guess I can see the need for a red herring to keep people from being too sure. I think the foreshadowing for the three is beautifully done; I don't care how tropey and obvious it is; it's good stuff.

Traveller, on 04 May 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

Really the should all just be mining dragonglass and making a fuckload of arrows with glass tips.

That I can agree with. Maybe Davos and Melisandre will be sent off. I really hope we see Sam soon; his family was cast for this season to he'll be turning up eventually.

This post has been edited by Terez: 04 May 2016 - 09:08 AM

[Tattersail_]

Can you bring up what foreshadowing you mean? I am reading what you say but I need to know the source too.

[Terez]

For Tyrion specifically? I mean, Dany is obvious, and Jon not much less so at this point.

For Tyrion it's much subtler in the beginning. His visit to the Wall was an important first step, but a subtle one. His obsession with dragons is another important point that was developed early on.

His marriage to Sansa ties him to her queen foreshadowing in book 1; that might be important down the road if she becomes queen by her marriage to Tyrion (rather than Joffrey).

In ACOK, Varys asks Tyrion, "Did honor die with our fathers?" And Tyrion said "My father is not dead yet." Of course, Aerys wasn't very honorable, but his death did mark a rather unusual breach of traditional honor since he was stabbed in the back by one of his own Kingsguard.

The stuff with Aerys having a thing for Joanna Lannister was spelled out in ADWD (Barristan Selmy to Dany, when she asked if there was a woman Aerys loved more than his queen), and that was reinforced in TWOIAF. In ADWD, it was merely a matter of Aerys taking liberties at the wedding bedding, and regretting the old 'first night' laws being repealed. In TWOIAF, they add rumors that Joanna was Aerys's secret paramour when she was attendant to Princess Rhaella, which Grand Maester Pycelle dismissed because he did not think Tywin would have married her if it were true. But Pycelle is an idiot, and Tywin might not have known, and even if he did know, it's said he loved her more than anything in the world. Anyway, Joanna was dismissed by Rhaella after the bedding antics.

There's probably more I'm forgetting right now; it's late. But the show has pretty much ignored all this; there was a similar conversation with Tyrion and Varys but other than that, we only have hints of his love for dragons, and his visit to the Wall. The scene in this past episode goes somewhere the books haven't gone yet, perhaps based on something GRRM told them, perhaps not. It might have just been their way of making up for lost foreshadowing.

This post has been edited by Terez: 05 May 2016 - 07:01 AM

[Khellendros]

Andorion, on 03 May 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

To get back to the episode I think two elements are in need of address

1. Robert Strong - the very casual way in which he killed that guy makes me think his strength is at Wun Wun levels. There is no way he dies in a duel or battle. Something big, like Wildfire or a dragon takes him down in the end.

But how did he know that guy was insulting Cersei? Chap was in a bar. RS should have been in the Red Keep. Does he have super hearing?


2. Davos: Lots of people have asked why Davos would do so much for Jon and why would he trust Mel. Davos spent his life following a strong and righteous leader. With Stannis dead, his life lacks direction. Plus he got a good chance to see and admire Jon. A young leader, unafraid to break tradition to do what he things is right. Jon is as adamant as Stannis, he refused Stannis thrice because of a vow, and yet he has a merciful side - he would not let Mance burn. It is inevitable that Davos admired Jon. So when he runs out to the yard to find Jon dead by treachery, his natural first reaction is to help. The rest spiralled.

As for Mel, it should be noted that Davos has seen Mel perform a lot of magic including the most explicit one - the Shadow Assassin. He has probably hear dof the resurrectionary powers of the Red Priests. He does not know Mel burnt Shireen. So why not go to her? What harm could it do?

With regards to 1, in the scene where the guy is boasting, you see a woman looking suspiciously at him. Qyburn is now Master of Whispers, right? So woman to Qyburn to Frankenmountain - and you might assume that some hours pass between his boasting and his pissing.


Enjoyed the episode, though sad to see Roose go so cheaply, really liked that actor.

[Gorefest]

Terez, on 04 May 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

Nevertheless, I suspect Alliser Thorne's death is coming soon, and perhaps as early as next week. I can't imagine anyone else important who could die so soon. I wonder if Jon will show Olly mercy. I will be extremely disappointed if he shows Thorne mercy, though. Not only was he the ringleader, he has a grudge that will never die. He's dangerous, and always will be.

He could always send him to the Wall inst....

Oh, wait.

[blackzoid]

I so wish one of the 3 dragons will be killed off, for both book and show. Drogon if possible to shake things up for Dany.
It would restore some of the shows/novels "anything can happen" ness if they have to face the Walkers without the full compliment of perfect Anti-White Walker weapons.

[champ]

Hopefully the White Walkers will have a dragon of their own...that would be amazing to see on screen and a great holy F moment!

edit

ICE DRAGON!

This post has been edited by champ: 04 May 2016 - 03:28 PM

[Cause]

Andorion, on 02 May 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

Liked the episode a lot/


Regarding the resurrection, its clearly Mel losing all faith and just saying "please" in quiet desperation that did the trick. No power, no rituals, no blood. As QT posted above it worked for Thoros

Is Tyrion a Targaryen?[img]http://forum.malazanempire.com/public/style_emoticons/Malazan/:thumbsup:.gif[/img]


Also what is wrong with Westeros? The discussion there is so bitter and negative - its toxic. Even fairly new members seem to be like that.

Except I think the books have long hinted that its the resurrection of dragons that powers up all the spells. Its like dragons are engines the release magical energy into the world for others to tap. Their is lot we don't know about in westeros but if its becomes as simple as gods are real and the god of fire wanted john to live that will suck.

[Nevyn]

Cause, on 04 May 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Andorion, on 02 May 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

Liked the episode a lot/


Regarding the resurrection, its clearly Mel losing all faith and just saying "please" in quiet desperation that did the trick. No power, no rituals, no blood. As QT posted above it worked for Thoros

Is Tyrion a Targaryen?.gif" />


Also what is wrong with Westeros? The discussion there is so bitter and negative - its toxic. Even fairly new members seem to be like that.

Except I think the books have long hinted that its the resurrection of dragons that powers up all the spells. Its like dragons are engines the release magical energy into the world for others to tap. Their is lot we don't know about in westeros but if its becomes as simple as gods are real and the god of fire wanted john to live that will suck.

This (along with a lot of Targ theories and prophecy interpretations) risks falling into the 'Lost' trap (Malazan trap would also work. It is easy to assume that every thread, possibility, or hint will be explained when it is all said and done, but it seldom works that way. We may never know the 'why' of how people get resurrected, Do we need to?

[Gorefest]

Well, to a certain extent you could leave it up in the air. But at the very least you would have to give some sort of justification on why there's no resurrected people walking around all over the place, even if it is divine choice or something vague like that. Can anyone do it? Is it just red priests? Unless that's exactly what is going on north of the Wall and the only reason that we don't have hordes of the recently deceased walking around in Westeros and Essos is because the people there have forgotten how to say 'please' with feeling.

On a side note: Lost wasn't really a 'trap', just incredibly bad writing. Not sure if that is the best example to float a meme on.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 04 May 2016 - 01:39 PM

[Nevyn]

Gorefest, on 04 May 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

Well, to a certain extent you could leave it up in the air. But at the very least you would have to give some sort of justification on why there's no resurrected people walking around all over the place, even if it is divine choice or something vague like that. Can anyone do it? Is it just red priests? Unless that's exactly what is going on north of the Wall and the only reason that we don't have hordes of the recently deceased walking around in Westeros and Essos is because the people there have forgotten how to say 'please' with feeling.

On a side note: Lost wasn't really a 'trap', just incredibly bad writing.

Well, they don't just say please. They are Red Priests having crises of faith who say the words of their ritual and then ask please (and optional burn hair and give a bath). I think whatever the answer, we don't need special information to assume not everyone can do it.

[Werthead]

amphibian, on 03 May 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:

Nettles had brown skin, so it's not only a white person thing too.

Suspect there may be ice dragons too, but maybe super rare/few in number.

There was some ice dragon setup in TWoIaF, but there's not been a lot in the novels. I am interested in the idea that there's an ice dragon/ice giant living in the Wall, powering its magic, and the Horn of Joramun will shatter the Wall by releasing that spirit.

Quote

Except I think the books have long hinted that its the resurrection of dragons that powers up all the spells. Its like dragons are engines the release magical energy into the world for others to tap. Their is lot we don't know about in westeros but if its becomes as simple as gods are real and the god of fire wanted john to live that will suck.

George has indicated that there is a relationship between magic, the dragons and maybe the seasons, but how those effect one another may or may not be explored further.

Quote

On a side note: Lost wasn't really a 'trap', just incredibly bad writing. Not sure if that is the best example to float a meme on.

I'm rewatching LOST right now and there really isn't that much they leave unexplained in the ending, apart from the core question of what the Island is. And I don't think you can fully explain that (alien spaceship, protrusion of another dimension into our own, a giant sea turtle) in a manner that wouldn't be preposterous so it's better left unexplained. It's a weird natural phenomena that people can tap into in certain ways. LOST certainly isn't as guilty of the lazy/bad writing issue as BATTLESTAR GALACTICA was in its last two seasons.
MODGOD NOTICE OF LOST POSTS MOVED. YOURE WELCOME.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 05 May 2016 - 12:27 AM

[Tattersail_]

Lost was fantastic.

Some good theories on here.

I want a pet dragon!

[Nevyn]

Tattersail_, on 04 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

I want a pet dragon!

OMG Tattersail is a secret Targaryen!

[Tattersail_]

Nevyn, on 04 May 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 04 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

I want a pet dragon!

OMG Tattersail is a secret Targaryen!

Not anymore evidently

[Gabriele]

Terez, on 03 May 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

PS: This was back when there were, like, 10 females on Malazan. That might be a slight exaggeration, but only a slight one.

I remember that time. I was one of them.

I've been less active lately because I cut down on my internet time, including several forums and twitter. Got a more stressful job for one, and those half-finished novels in my files won't get finished at all if I spend hours browsing the net every day. But I do peek into Malazan and Westeros for a bit several times a week. Can't live entirely without them.

This post has been edited by Gabriele: 04 May 2016 - 06:02 PM