[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 29 June 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

Indeed, though I always saw the last bit as Robert doing the asshole, Friendzone-disgruntled thing...like he was betrothed to Lyanna as an arrangement (and loved her off), but Lyanna OBVIOUSLY loved Rhaegar, and Robert was pissed off and basically fed Ned a line about Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna to get him to go get her back. It fits with the Robert Bartheon that we all know from the books. He was ALL about his own POV of the events, which seems like it was very far from the truth.

I wouldn't go that far.

But I doubt her going willingly with Rhaegar was in any way obvious to most. They are not taking Robert's word for this. You don't just take off with a noble daughter without the family's permission in this sort of culture. Brandon and Rickard went to protest, and that would not be based on Robert's word. No one needed to be 'fed a line'. Robert is certainly deluded, but I don't think he is ignoring obvious discouragement (not that that would mean anything in an arranged marriage). It simply never occurs to him that she wouldn't love him back.

[worry]

Who do you like better, Princess Shireen or Lady Mormont?

[Nevyn]

All the badass lines in the world can't cure RBF

I vote Shireen.

[worry]

All RBF means to me is Reel Big Fish. Do we got another third wave ska hater on the premises?

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 28 June 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

The timeline is not important,

the timeline is not important,

hi ho bye Daario,

the timeline is not important....

...it's like they want me to make a graph or something



I didn't even notice any sort of supposed timeline issues until I came to read this thread.

So Varys is in Dorne negotiating Tyrell/Dorne to support Daenarys, and then later he is on a ship in Daenarys' fleet... a fleet which now has Tyrell and Dorne ships in it! Why would you immediately assume the show creators messed up instead of automatically thinking "oh, I guess this is a while later after the ships left Highgarden/Dorne and joined Daenarys' forces. Varys must have gone with them, hence him being here." ???

And how in the heck are Malazan fans, of all people, having this problem?! Where was all this whining about magical teleporters back when Deadhouse Gates came out and there was no scene showing how the BBs/Daru group got to Seven Cities?

[amphibian]

I think the issue lies more in the juxtaposition of the Varys scenes in between scenes that probably took place in much closer time to each other than the Varys scenes did. It's odd for television to do that without the jumps further down the timeline being explicitly shown as that.

In books, it's different. The modality lets authors play with timelines much more and the reader has a greater built in capacity to tolerate the timeline issues.

I didn't mind the timeline jumps that much or the superfast travel some characters appear to enjoy. It was the Arya/pie thing that came off as 1) needlessly over the top and 2) as a bodge created just to get one of the more shocking book moments into the show rather than something Arya the trained assassin would do.

[Cause]

Did Arya get taller when she out on the mask

[Felisin Fatter]

D, on 30 June 2016 - 04:20 AM, said:

And how in the heck are Malazan fans, of all people, having this problem?! Where was all this whining about magical teleporters back when Deadhouse Gates came out and there was no scene showing how the BBs/Daru group got to Seven Cities?

At least Malazan has established that magical teleporters exist... Also wriggle room for 'time passes different in warrens' and 'it might even be time travel!' And kids aging at the speed of plot (or the speed of the actor playing them) happens in all tv-shows that involve kids, one can choose to ignore that as long as all the characters ignore it too.

[Morgoth]

Has it ever been confirmed, or plausibly established, that Rhaegar did not take Lyanna against her will?

[Terez]

Morgoth, on 30 June 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Has it ever been confirmed, or plausibly established, that Rhaegar did not take Lyanna against her will?

This is the best evidence I know of that he didn't:

AGOT said:

"Ah, Arya, You have a wildness in you, child. 'The wolf blood,' my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave." Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. "Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."

"Lyanna was beautiful," Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya.

"She was," Eddard Stark agreed, "beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time."

Of course, there are plenty of other small clues, like Lyanna telling Ned that Robert would never be faithful to her, that marriage wouldn't change him. And Dany hearing from Viserys that Rhaegar had loved her. But if Ned can recognize that it was Lyanna's free will that brought her to an early grave, then it seems unlikely she was abducted. It's even possible that Ned knew that all along, and he joined Robert's rebellion because he couldn't break it to his buddy and because Rhaegar had dishonored Lyanna's marriage arrangement.

[Cause]

That and Arys killed his brother and father and planned to kill the entire stark line I think.

[Terez]

Again, those are consequences of the rebellion, not causes.

[acesn8s]

[QuickTidal]

acesn8s, on 30 June 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Epic troll.

On the bright side...thankfully the incarnation of Lady Mormont that we all love so much, is the TV one...and I doubt B&W are ready to send her packing just yet. Especially since she's kind of a huge hit.

[Nevyn]

Terez, on 30 June 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

Again, those are consequences of the rebellion, not causes.

What on earth gave you that idea?

There was no rebellion before those two were killed.

Chronology:

1) Rhaegar 'takes' Lyanna
2) Brandon goes to KL to call out Rhaegar and is arrested
3) Aerys calls Rickard to court
4) Aerys kills Rickardin front of Brandon , then kills Brandon
5) Aerys sends a command to Jon Arryn to kill Ned and Robert
6) Rebellion


EDIT: corrected

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 30 June 2016 - 01:26 PM

[QuickTidal]

Technically the events that led to the rebellion began at the Harrenhall tourney when Rhaegar crowned Lyanna the "queen of love and beauty" or whatever instead of his wife Elia Martell.

But everything else is right.

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 30 June 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Technically the events that led to the rebellion began at the Harrenhall tourney when Rhaegar crowned Lyanna the "queen of love and beauty" or whatever instead of his wife Elia Martell.

But everything else is right.

Only because I fact checked and went back and edited my mistakes, lol.

But yeah, the point it that the Starks were not killed as a consequence of the rebellion.

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 30 June 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 30 June 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Technically the events that led to the rebellion began at the Harrenhall tourney when Rhaegar crowned Lyanna the "queen of love and beauty" or whatever instead of his wife Elia Martell.

But everything else is right.

Only because I fact checked and went back and edited my mistakes, lol.

But yeah, the point it that the Starks were not killed as a consequence of the rebellion.

True. And it's okay, I had to fact check it myself as my memory was foggy. But yeah, the Starks deaths were the catalyst for the Rebellion proper (when Jon Arryn refused Aerys command).

[Cause]

Oh right that reminds me. Did the value bannemen also cheer the king of the North? Seemed a little odd. If they are to be allies you'd think they would argue their Lord should be king? He seems to have more men. Or are they just cheering the happy news without proclaiming him there king.

This post has been edited by Cause: 30 June 2016 - 01:56 PM

[QuickTidal]

Cause, on 30 June 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Oh right that reminds me. Did the value bannemen also cheer the king of the North?

The Value Bannermen were too busy at costco saving money on a pallet of goldfish crackers.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 30 June 2016 - 02:01 PM