[QuickTidal]

Suit yourself man. We're just shouting past each other now. No need to continue.

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 28 June 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

The timeline is not important,

the timeline is not important,

hi ho bye Daario,

the timeline is not important....

Hey, I've been meaning to ask you.

Is the timeline important at all?

[Coltaine -]

A timeline/teleportation discussion? Had this already today.

I understand Nevyn's point of view. In most case you can only explain it with people traveling super fast or nothing happening for weeks.

But I'm hoping that they can stop doing it and go back to the good work they had done before in this case, now that nearly everyone is together with someone else or dead. Winterfell, Kings Landing and the Invasion fleet + Arya, Samwell and Bran. Looks manageable.

[Nevyn]

- Coltaine -, on 28 June 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

A timeline/teleportation discussion? Had this already today.

I understand Nevyn's point of view. In most case you can only explain it with people traveling super fast or nothing happening for weeks.

But I'm hoping that they can stop doing it and go back to the good work they had done before in this case, now that nearly everyone is together with someone else or dead. Winterfell, Kings Landing and the Invasion fleet + Arya, Samwell and Bran. Looks manageable.

Actually, I suspect it may become even more common. The show is simply moving faster in general, and at the quicker pace it is simply tougher to sync the relevant character meetings and conversations with the movements of armies, etc.

Plus, the more the characters converge, the tougher it is to rely on the "things may not be chronological order" excuse. Arya is easy to excuse away because her story was almost completely disconnected from what was happening on Westeros.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 28 June 2016 - 04:22 PM

[worry]

Maybe Westeros isn't that big. Don't children like cross back and forth across England several times a day playing hoop and stick or whatever the hell British kids do for fun? And this world is probably like the moon of a Pluto sized planet.

I also have a theory that the "mile" on this planet isn't the same as ours. It's just the distance a certain Ser Myles could travel in 5 minutes back in like Year 12 of King Aegbert's reign.

[Primateus]

Kanyemander West, on 28 June 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

Maybe Westeros isn't that big. Don't children like cross back and forth across England several times a day playing hoop and stick or whatever the hell British kids do for fun? And this world is probably like the moon of a Pluto sized planet.

I also have a theory that the "mile" on this planet isn't the same as ours. It's just the distance a certain Ser Myles could travel in 5 minutes back in like Year 12 of King Aegbert's reign.

I once saw a kid in the Australian outback take his tricycle to his neighbor to see which way their toilet flushed!

[worry]

Also this link sheds a lot of light on a certain death in the finale: https://gfycat.com/G...FatalBubblefish

[Nevyn]

Kanyemander West, on 28 June 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

Also this link sheds a lot of light on a certain death in the finale: https://gfycat.com/G...FatalBubblefish

Ah, I see. The key is to forget to hit the ground.

[Maark Abbott]

Gorefest, on 28 June 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Nor necessarily correct either. Point out a blatant flaw in overall timeline to me that cannot be reasoned away by consecutive events in different locations not necessarily taking place in chronological order and I will hold my hands up in deflated acceptance. Until then, just sit back and enjoy the story.

How did muh Malazans get to Lether in just one book eh EH

[Cause]

Short of marrying the nights king how is cersei actually gonna be a villian. She should have no power. Left

This post has been edited by Cause: 29 June 2016 - 07:45 AM

[Terez]

Cause, on 29 June 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

Short of marrying the nights king how is cersei actually gonna be a villian. She should have no power. Left

She has been the villain all along. Her short reign will serve as the final expression of her madness. Right now she's ruling King's Landing with fear, but even if there weren't armies on the way, she has Jaime to contend with. I imagine he'll kill her just in time to hand it back to the Targaryens, just as he handed it to Stark and Baratheon all those years ago. It's probably too much to hope for that he'll survive it this time.

[Cause]

She will be crazy, she will hurt people. But she is hardly a threat. If anything the show has underplayed how incompetent and mad she is

Its also to bad that they underutilised (at least I think so) the theme of how often she regrets not being a man. I always found her thoughts on the matter, and Dorne, and the nobility were a very nice, subtle side theme in the books on the nature of power and how it is unfair. Of course in westeros but also just in general.

This post has been edited by Cause: 29 June 2016 - 09:37 AM

[Terez]

She's not meant to be a threat right now. She's meant to demonstrate just how badly Robert's Rebellion turned out. It's almost over now.

[Cause]

Terez, on 29 June 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

She's not meant to be a threat right now. She's meant to demonstrate just how badly Robert's Rebellion turned out. It's almost over now.

Dont think so at all. Her actions are hardly the fault of Roberts Rebellion. Cersei has been the poison in the background that has tainted all of westeros for the past decade. The Lannisters in fact have been that poision in general but still strong evidence that Aerys made them that way and desrved what he got.

[Terez]

Aerys deserved what he got. Rhaegar didn't. Robert's war was never about the Mad King.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Terez, on 29 June 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Aerys deserved what he got. Rhaegar didn't. Robert's war was never about the Mad King.

This.

If memory serves, Jon Arryn rose in rebellion against Aerys when ordered to kill Robert and Ned.

Robert however? He was fighting for Lyanna and the misconception that Rhaegar had taken her against her will - which incidentally led Brandon Stark to his death as well, as he challenged Aerys in response to the kidnapping.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 29 June 2016 - 12:15 PM

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 29 June 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Terez, on 29 June 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Aerys deserved what he got. Rhaegar didn't. Robert's war was never about the Mad King.

This.

If memory serves, Jon Arryn rose in rebellion against Aerys when ordered to kill Robert and Ned.

Robert however? He was fighting for Lyanna and the misconception that Rhaegar had taken her against her will.

Indeed, though I always saw the last bit as Robert doing the asshole, Friendzone-disgruntled thing...like he was betrothed to Lyanna as an arrangement (and loved her off), but Lyanna OBVIOUSLY loved Rhaegar, and Robert was pissed off and basically fed Ned a line about Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna to get him to go get her back. It fits with the Robert Bartheon that we all know from the books. He was ALL about his own POV of the events, which seems like it was very far from the truth.

[Terez]

Yep yep, except the friendzone is not a thing in a world where women have little say in their marriage arrangements.* From Robert's POV, he owned Lyanna; it never occurred to him that the quality of his love for her should be questioned.

* It's a stupid concept in real life, too.

[Ceda Cicero]

I spent a lot of time this season mulling over timeline issues and wacky fast travel/teleportation issues in the show and asking myself how much they bother me. I think I've sort of come to the conclusion that they don't bother me much, but I can understand how they'd be dealbreakers for some. Here's why.

At its inception, ASoIaF was a series that that lived and breathed in the gritty minutiae of matters like geography and timelines and thousands of other details. Those sorts of details are part of what make the world and the story animate—they're in its essential DNA. So it should come as no surprise that as the narrative ballooned, Martin has hit endless roadblocks trying to accommodate those sorts of details as he advances the story. in MBotF, Erikson eventually threw up his hands and walked away from the mess of the timeline, paid less attention to matters of mundane consistency and plausibility in favor of telling his story. And that worked, for MBotF and the bulk of committed Malazan readers, because from jump those things weren't necessarily an essential part of Erikson's world. But Martin would never be able to do that and get away with it.

Now the HBO series is essentially doing with the story what Erikson did with Malazan somewhere in the middle of the series, which will be fine with some and absolutely unacceptable to others, and I get it, on both sides. Varys teleporting from Meereen to Dorne and back again in like 5 minutes is ridiculous and upsetting to me but it's not a dealbreaker because hey, one time Orfantal was a girl and ID really GAF because the story's still good. But I can understand how it'd be a dealbreaker for some.

[Cause]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 29 June 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Terez, on 29 June 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Aerys deserved what he got. Rhaegar didn't. Robert's war was never about the Mad King.

This.

If memory serves, Jon Arryn rose in rebellion against Aerys when ordered to kill Robert and Ned.

Robert however? He was fighting for Lyanna and the misconception that Rhaegar had taken her against her will - which incidentally led Brandon Stark to his death as well, as he challenged Aerys in response to the kidnapping.

Rhaegar was not a bad person but his act still ruined the seven kingdoms. For his culture not speaking to Lyanna's father or brother before taking her and bedding her (even if he married her) was an act of war and he knew it. He knew that his actions would cause problems. At its best outcome it would have strained relations between the crown and stormsend. At its worst, well we know what happened. Smart and Noble people can do dumb things. Maybe one day Martin will explain the need for secracy, otherwise who knows. The Starks might have jumped at the chance to marry their daughter to the crown prince.