[Itwæs Nom]

Nevyn, on 25 September 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Charlie Nom, on 25 September 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

I think not.
Kallor gets played by everyone more than anything else, even CG decieved him (the thing with king and reaver).
Worry just told us his idea of "badass" character and topic changed from killing machines to the nicest people being alive. And I believe hes just sitting there and laughing.
Hes Shadowthrone.

No, shadowthrone has shadowy motives, and grand ambitions. Kruppe is too noble.

He's Tehol.

Tehol has a kind heart.

[HoosierDaddy]

Kallor's a whiny bitch. Always, all the time. Bitch, bitch, bitch.

Torvald Nom is a whiny bitch. Yeah, I said it, Illy. No questions after Orb.

The real winner is Twist. Suck it.

[Mentalist]

HoosierDaddy, on 25 September 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

Kallor's a whiny bitch. Always, all the time. Bitch, bitch, bitch.

Torvald Nom is a whiny bitch. Yeah, I said it, Illy. No questions after Orb.

The real winner is Twist. Suck it.

Twist died. Did he ascend with the BBs?

[HoosierDaddy]

Nope. It makes him more badass. Just a Black Moranth kicking ass.

[Andorion]

Charlie Nom, on 25 September 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 25 September 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Charlie Nom, on 25 September 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

I think not.
Kallor gets played by everyone more than anything else, even CG decieved him (the thing with king and reaver).
Worry just told us his idea of "badass" character and topic changed from killing machines to the nicest people being alive. And I believe hes just sitting there and laughing.
Hes Shadowthrone.

No, shadowthrone has shadowy motives, and grand ambitions. Kruppe is too noble.

He's Tehol.

Tehol has a kind heart.

Tehol is in a different league from Whiskeyjack or Itkovian when it comes to kindness.

Lets say some city guards were abusing helpless streetkids. If Whiskeyjack or Itkovian heard of that, they would kick the shit out of the guards rescue the kids, take them to healer and get them protection under someone powerful or even get them to join the army Grey Swords or the Host...

If Tehol encountered this, the next day the kids would find themselves mysteriously adopted by a wealthy patron, their memoroes and wounds of trauma would be magically healed, they would each be set on paths to lucrative future careers. As for the guards, they would find that they organization they had been a part of had been disbanded, they had been conscripted into unpaid factory labour and their first job would be to melt down their weapons armours and badges of rank.

Tehol ins't kind. He is diabolically kind.

Remember what he did to the Patriotists and the economy in reapers gale?

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Mentalist, on 25 September 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

The other thing that eliminates both Kallor and Skinner from the list of potential badasses is the fact that whenever someone does lay a smackdown on them, they cry and beg for Crippled God to heal and save them, rather than taking the hurt like a man.

This. So much this.

I find Kallor interesting, but I don't find him to be badass-central like the OP. Something to bear in mind with the old Ascendants like Anomander Rake, Silchas Ruin, Caladan Brood et al is that although they're immensely powerful and could flatten just about anybody they wanted, they have had hundreds of thousands of years to temper the impulse to do so, to learn restraint and responsibility for their great power.

In short, for me it's prowess tempered with wisdom that hits the mark (whcih isn't to say there aren't some much younger candidates knocking about - Cotillion, Traveller et al). Being very old, whiny and bitter and going "Look at me, I'll do what I want and you can't stop me" just doesn't quite fit.

Icarium sits in a category by himself for me. He's an unstoppable force when unleashed, but it's not within his control and he doesn't know it's happening, so it can't really be deliberate badassery, as much as I absolutely adore the character.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 26 September 2015 - 08:08 AM

[Andorion]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 26 September 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 25 September 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

The other thing that eliminates both Kallor and Skinner from the list of potential badasses is the fact that whenever someone does lay a smackdown on them, they cry and beg for Crippled God to heal and save them, rather than taking the hurt like a man.

This. So much this.

I find Kallor interesting, but I don't find him to be badass-central like the OP. Something to bear in mind with the old Ascendants like Anomander Rake, Silchas Ruin, Caladan Brood et al is that although they're immensely powerful and could flatten just about anybody they wanted, they have had hundreds of thousands of years to temper the impulse to do so, to learn restraint and responsibility for their great power.

In short, for me it's prowess tempered with wisdom that hits the mark (whcih isn't to say there aren't some much younger candidates knocking about - Cotillion, Traveller et al). Being very old, whiny and bitter and going "Look at me, I'll do what I want and you can't stop me" just doesn't quite fit.

Icarium sits in a category by himself for me. He's an unstoppable force when unleashed, but it's not within his control and he doesn't know it's happening, so it can't really be deliberate badassery, as much as I absolutely adore the character.

Prowess tempered with wisdom is a good point, though in some cases the 'tempering' is of a different nature. Case in point is Karsa. he was powerful to begin with but his impetuous nature and untempered arrogance landed him into deep trouble. Late when he learns he becomes even more dangerous.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Karsa's a fantastic example!

[NefaraisBredd]

I agree that karsa is a greatexample of wisdom.
I also like how Tehol dound his way into this thread. Tehol is diabolical no doubt, he is probably the most ethical character in the series aside from bugg perhaps. It would take a most compassionate person to see the misery and actually work towards sustainable change.

[Kanese S's]

Nevyn, on 25 September 2015 - 12:16 AM, said:

NefaraisBredd, on 24 September 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

Kallor for President!
I have said this many times in this forum-Kallor is the most underrated character in this series. There are more ascendants than one can shake a stick at-Kallor has never ascended, yet Gods are afraid of him (Draconus&Co.)Kallor had a God dropped on him, the very same god who required almost every available god/ascendant to chain the bastard, yet, Kallor shrugged it off. He defeated Spinnok Durav, who is also extremely underrated. He's 300,000 yrs old for effin crimney sakes ! That automatically qualifies him to be one of the best swordsmen alive, period. But back to Kallor-Rake shows a lot of bravado around Kallor but never actually does anything. And another Azathanai(Brood) grumbles and threatens but again, doesnt actually try to follow through. Kallor is like Bruce Banner's alter ego-he just keeps coming like an unstoppable force-the more you resist, the mightier his rage, an inexorable force like Icarium. He fought Durav for an entire evening and was not really challenged by it-a twinge of a forgotten conscience stayed his hand. Oh ya! Draconus, the king of badassness, only cursed him cause he likely could not have defeated him!!!! No contest. Kallor is top five of all of Wu's badass characters.

Bah, Kallor is poop. They brought down a god on his continent but missed him. And while they were trying to bring a god, they weren't really trying to do what they did.

He only lives without ascending because he got cursed. And each of the 3 gods managed to hack his pathetic curses so that they were not nearly as bad as he intended (he was too darn specific).

He gets to fight and beat Spinnock, because he is the upper limit of characters they could have him fight and win. And oh yeah, he fails at everything, forever, even the things he succeeds at. He even fails at murdering little girls in surprise attacks, little girls he is AFRAID of because a small part of the girls soul was once sort of an elder goddess.

This.

He is the avatar of failure.

Also his curses were lame and stupid and eventually overcome by their victims.

Kallor's a lameass, not a badass.

[Kanese S's]

NefaraisBredd, on 25 September 2015 - 01:48 AM, said:

This is the same stuff i have heard before. Sure, he is cursed to fail-if they could have eliminated him they would have. Of course he fears azath spirits/souls-however-he is also cursed to live forever and SE's writing describes him as a warren unto himself when he starts swinging that bastard sword of his. Haters r gonna hate no matter what i guess

They cursed him because they felt that eternal failure would be more torturous for his ego than death.

Nevyn, on 25 September 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

NefaraisBredd, on 25 September 2015 - 01:48 AM, said:

This is the same stuff i have heard before. Sure, he is cursed to fail-if they could have eliminated him they would have. Of course he fears azath spirits/souls-however-he is also cursed to live forever and SE's writing describes him as a warren unto himself when he starts swinging that bastard sword of his. Haters r gonna hate no matter what i guess

They didn't eliminate him because the curse was a more potent punishment.

Precisely.

Maark, on 25 September 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

I think Kallor is actually Worry.

No. Worry is funny. Kallor fails at humor.

Andorion, on 25 September 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

The one person I can think of who is compassionate and tries to make the world better and doesn't die is tavore. Ganoes paran is a candidate, but he died in GotM and only survived due to divine intervention.

@mentalist, yeah if you consider cotillion and dancer to be totally different. But is cotillion independent of dancer?

Tavore, also Tehol and Janath.

Vorcan is pretty badass, too. Chains herself to the floor of her basement because she knows and is afraid of what she's capable of in OST.

[Battalion]

Andorion, on 25 September 2015 - 02:45 AM, said:

worry, on 25 September 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

Why must you equate "badass" to "proficiently violent", Ando?

My definition of badass is someone who doesn't hesitate to fight irrespective of whether he or she could win. Basically someone who fights confidently against overwhelming odds.

People who fit this definition are Iron Bars, Spinnock, Karsa, Yedan Derryg, Trull, Kalam etc

Kallor is not like this. He is more of an opportunist. ANd he actively tried to avoid or run away from stronger opponents. He never confornted Rake to the point Rake would kill him. He only went after Whiskeyjack when he knew the CG would give him an escape route. He basically ran from Dassem

Iron Bars ... was a hard case in MT but did an unholy shit in his pants and walked around looking at the floorboards when he was confronted with sea-going Seguleh in an ICE books the name of which I can't remember. Lost his badass tag after that

[Battalion]

I vaguely remember a scene where Kallor is standing in the rain staring at a muddy river. Everyone else is oblivious but he notices the river is full of mud/sand and is flowing the wrong way. Its a shit load of T'lan Imass desolved into dust going somewhere. Was a good scene because it showed the depth of his knowledge regarding Imass