Andorion, on 05 July 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:
Luthor's plan didn't really make a lot of sense to me. His main plan seemed to be to start a scare against Superman and sell his Kryptonite weapon to the US in exchange for access to the ship. When the Senator who chaired the Committee disagreed about taking a hard line against Superman he went for the Bomb plot. Yet apparently he was also setting Batman up with the cancelled checks? What would he have done if the Senator had taken a hard line? That would have made the Batman plot superfluous.
I think that his goal the entire time was to get at the Ship. He knew that the tech on board was going to be the dogs bollocks for his own universe. So everything he did seems to bend to that end. I'd have to re-watch to see if it all holds up. Also, I kind of think that the intention is to see Luthor as a wild card "watch the world burn" Joker-type...but with an endgame of "ruling" said burned wasteland.
Andorion, on 05 July 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:
Also how does Luthor know the secret identities of Wayne and Kent?
Ever since Superman showed up, he's basically had his "considerable" resources seeking out all and any info on Metahumans/Superheroes that he can find. We don't know how he accomplished it, but he knows because he's been studying them every since Supes showed up on the global stage presumably.
Andorion, on 05 July 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:
The Martha moment was atrocious. Batman had a pretty good case against Superman, and all of that just dissolves because they share mothers with the same name? Seriously? It was ridiculous.
See, I think that everyone seems to focus down on the fact that their mother's share the name Martha. It's not that which stays Bruce's final hand at all. It's the realization, after basically unceremoniously deeming Supes an alien demi-god who could turn at any moment and must be stopped, that this guy has a mother. A human mother. Someone who raised him with human values. This is a two-fold hit to Bruce's mindset: 1. That Superman has a human mother is a staggering turn of just who Superman is and why he would NOT turn on humanity as Bruce assumed, and 2. That his own beloved mother was taken from him at a young age and he never got to have that upbringing that Kent's gave Supes. Both of these things are what stay Bruce's hand. The catalyst for his revelations is the name "Martha"...but that's where it ends. And then add on top of the two things I noted the fact that Bruce is being given a chance to SAVE a mother, a Martha, when Superman asks him. It's an overwhelming set of things to process, and Bruce's mind is changed (at least initially) by all that...not because their mother's share the same name. I also assume rattling around in there is the knowledge that Supes drops on him at the beginning of the fight where he explains that Luthor has been playing them off one another since the beginning. At least that's how I saw it.
Andorion, on 05 July 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:
The ship and Luthor was also pretty jarring. Luthor gained access using Kryptonian DNA but then the ship let him have proscribed and restricted Kryptonian research projects simply because he asked for it? No security, no access rights?
The Kryptonian ships worked off the Keys and vocal commands not set to a particular voice (as evidenced in MoS). So with the key AND Zod's body in the water, the Ship naturally agrees. Recall that Zod had unequalled access to the information on his ship because of who he was in life (a General of Krypton). Also, be aware that one of Darkseid's generals is already messing with things on board (deleted scene on the Ultimate edition that was released online) and that may be a part of it as well.
Andorion, on 05 July 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:
Superman's death was contrived. The Kryptonite spear was the clear weapon of choice. Superman could not wield it safely. Yet Wonder Woman was present and had demonstrated great skill with archaic weapons/ Neither Superman, not Batman thought for one second that she was the clear candidate to use it? Superman keeps Doomsday busy long enough for WW to get a stab in. Instead Superman does that stupid kamikaze thing.
WW was BARELY holding down Doomsday in that whole sequence. She was holding him with the lasso, and Batman staggers him with the final Kryptonite grenade, and someone had to take the final run with the spear...there was no way DD was being taken down with just WW wielding the spear. I see your issue with it, but this is classic Trinity behaviour on the part of these three individuals.
Andorion, on 05 July 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:
There are other minor quibbles. Doomsday looked like the Mountain Troll from Fellowship of the Ring. Alfred looked like Commissioner Gordon.
Agree about the Doomsday design. He really was cribbed directly from the Mountain Troll design. LOL. Blaming Patrick Tatopolous for that (he who is responsible for the 2000 Godzilla design)...Oh, I liked Alfred. It's nice to see an Alfred who isn't a frail guy like Michael Caine (who was great mind you) and instead looks more like Alfred in the comics. At least to me. And with J.K. Simmons playing Gordon in the JL movie, I think we are in for a treat for the DCMU Gordon to be honest. Only time will tell though.
Andorion, on 05 July 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:
There were things I really liked. Wonder Woman was excellently done. I really wish she got more screentime.
Easily the BEST bit of the movie were her scenes. And yeah I wished she got more screentime, but it just gets me more amped for her solo movie....and her score theme was the best on the soundtrack too!
Andorion, on 05 July 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:
Finally there is my issue with this DC pessimistic interpretation of Superman. It just doesn't click with me. For me Superman will be the Superman of the Our Worlds at War finale who did things against impossible odds because he believed it was right. This Superman is bland.
From what I hear the goal has always been to make Superman EARN the moniker of the White Hat Superman, and earn the whole bright outlook on humanity. He has been challenged by our modern post-9/11 world since his childhood by those who didn't understand him, didn't want him around, or feared him outright...or worse wanted to USE him. He had to GET to the place where he does the things we want him to every time. I like that we've gone there organically. That only when he rises from his "death" will he be able to actually BE the Superman that we need. His sacrifice here has steeled the populace who questioned him into reverence now...so whne he comes back he can be that. If that
doesn't happen when he returns, I'll agree with you, but until then I'm okay with this route. It's certainly different than what we've seen before.
Andorion, on 05 July 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:
Also isn't Batman supposed to have a No Kill policy? He machine gunned quite a few people here.
There is collateral damage (he machine gunned no one specifically; but villains got in his way) is pretty much par for the course with Batman since the 90's. He beats everyone within an inch of their lives. But yeah, at this point the altruistic Batman who began his crusade 25 years ago is a shadow of who he was...killing, even by Collateral damage, has become a need in his jaded heart. This is the point of that last scene with Bruce and Diana, he's realized that he had long ago lost his way and become cruel and if not villainous, then misguidedly bad. Superman's sacrifice shows him that he has to go back to what he proposed to be when he set out, and Affleck has noted as much in his interviews about his standalone Bamtan movie and his input into the JL movie...that the Batman who returns in those films will be MUCH more like the old Bats, with his no-kill order (even with regards to Collateral damage) intact. What was Bruce's line? Somethign like "I've failed him... in life. I won't fail him in death." and then "Men are still good. We fight. We kill. We betray one another. But we can rebuild.
We can do better. We will. We have to. "
This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 05 July 2016 - 06:49 PM
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora
“Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone.” ~Ursula Vernon