[Andorion]

A lot of the early tests exposed lots of people to radiation

http://www.ctbto.org...ting-programme/

[Illuyankas]

Like John Wayne.

[Cause]

Gorefest, on 10 April 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Don't think anybody lives in the test zone.

Well obviously no one wants to be near the bomb when it goes off, Still the common idea that nukes will leave the planet or large swathes of the world uninhabitable for generations appears to be false.

[EmperorMagus]

As an aside, someone asked me what people in Iran thought about this deal.

[Graveljaw]

what the hell. im bored. most of the middle east issues and everywhere to an extent is the belief in imaginary dieties. if you worship an all powerful diety. cant he kill people himself if hes pissed at them

[Maark Abbott]

I'll get the popcorn.

[Gorefest]

Graveljaw, on 11 April 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

what the hell. im bored. most of the middle east issues and everywhere to an extent is the belief in imaginary dieties. if you worship an all powerful diety. cant he kill people himself if hes pissed at them

I fear that this is an overly simplistic version of reality. There is quite a lot more going on than religious issues. There are historical issues (colonialism, forced migrations, cold war aftereffects), there are political issues, there is oil, there is poverty and lack of education, there is global imbalance. Saying that it is all about religion is rather blinkered.

[Grief]

It's also overly vague and off-topic for this thread.

Posting vague generalisations, such as the one above, doesn't add anything to the discussion at hand. Broad, off-topic, attacks on religion that don't have much in the way of either relevancy or interesting talking points that might lead to a reasonable in-depth discussion, is just baiting. If you have a specific, concrete point about how religion is relevant to some particular aspect of the Iranian nuclear deal, feel free to post it. Otherwise, this thread is not the place for it (which everyone should note); there is a religion subforum for discussing religious issues, although I would advise you to provide something more than "Religion causes most of the world's problems, discuss" if you want a productive discussion on the topic.

Stay on topic please.

[Graveljaw]

The main reason colonialism has them so screwed up is because they cut the land up into countries in which you have different religions that hate each other all trapped inside those borders.

[Graveljaw]

It was off topic. My bad

[Vengeance]

Graveljaw, on 11 April 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

The main reason colonialism has them so screwed up is because they cut the land up into countries in which you have different religions that hate each other all trapped inside those borders.

I suspect that you are referring to the Sykes-Picot deal between england and france and ultimately to the treaty of Versailles. While that is an interesting conversation to have about unintended consequences and shortsighted diplomacy. It is a little off topic in regards to this specific conversation. Feel free to either find a thread about that or to start a new one.

-Venge

[Maark Abbott]

Back to topic: Mag, I've always thought it a bit weird how Iran seems to be painted in the news as some form of theocratic pseudo-terror state. I guess that ties into the image of 'otherness' that I mentioned. Or perhaps more of an 'us versus them' mentality that is supposed to be imparted? I don't know.

[Terez]

Maark, on 13 April 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

Mag, I've always thought it a bit weird how Iran seems to be painted in the news as some form of theocratic pseudo-terror state. I guess that ties into the image of 'otherness' that I mentioned. Or perhaps more of an 'us versus them' mentality that is supposed to be imparted? I don't know.

I'd say it has something to do with the fact that they have a religious Supreme Leader who dictates policy. Many people in Iran aren't too fond of that situation, hence the Green Revolution, but we all know how that turned out.

[Grief]

When I asked people to note that this wasn't the thread to discuss things unrelated to the Iranian nuclear deal, that also included discussions on the nature of trolling and "I'm not responding to trolling but if I was then I'd say this..." responses.

I've trimmed the thread down. Reign it in please.

If anyone has any queries, feel free to PM me.

[Graveljaw]

Yes venge. Exactly what I was referring to. I do think Iran should be able to have a civil nuclear program and they need to have sanctions lifted. They definitely seem to treat their ethnic and religous minorities better than alot of nations and I think if they are allowed to participate in the world arena alot of tensions will cease. And as an American I do know our CIA along with our cousins across the pond are to blame for ousting mosaddegh who was democratically elected and quite the visionary. I'm very proud to be American but not always very proud of what our leaders have done. And Ukraine is another. Non-NATO or not. We told them we had their back if they gave their nukes up and we see how it's played out. Guess y'all should have had oil resources then maybe the guys who bankroll our politicians would have pushed for more than condemning Russia's actions

[Maark Abbott]

Just seen from the news that Russia is supplying Tehran with a missile defense system (i300s, I think?). This is a good example of that 'otherness' that I mentioned; there was no direct backlash from the news about it, but the general overtone that the report was giving off was "Russia is doing this and they are bad, and Iran must therefore be suspect by association'.

This is the same sort of thing that makes me wonder what the issue is with Iran running a nuclear program: why should they not be able to do things that nations elsewhere can?

[Andorion]

Maark, on 14 April 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Just seen from the news that Russia is supplying Tehran with a missile defense system (i300s, I think?). This is a good example of that 'otherness' that I mentioned; there was no direct backlash from the news about it, but the general overtone that the report was giving off was "Russia is doing this and they are bad, and Iran must therefore be suspect by association'.

This is the same sort of thing that makes me wonder what the issue is with Iran running a nuclear program: why should they not be able to do things that nations elsewhere can?

On the other hand there would probably be no adverse reaction if say, India were to buy military hardware from Russia like say Su-30s or Su-35s. And India has bought miitary hardware from Russia, tons of it. The average Indian would be more or less ok with this, what with Pakistan and China and see it as a legitimate purchase even if they would wince at the price. Now if say Britain or USA were to condemn this as undermining internaional peace or whatever, Indians would get pretty angry about it. So yeah, Iran's position is understandable in this regard.

Anothe rinstance of hypocrisy is the USA recently giving $1 billion worth of arms to Pakistan to fight terrorism. Now this is something the American political establishment has denied for a long time, but the reality is that a significant percentage of the arms or money ends up in the hands of anti-Indian terrorist groups. This is because the Pakistani military and intelligence establishment has a significant percentage of people who see no problem in funding and organizing terrorist activities and groups in India. The infamous 26/11 Mumbai attacks were simply the most blatant examples of this.

Remember where Laden was found.

The point if this is that, in spite of this reality, there is no security issue with Pakistan getting, not purchasing mind you but receiving as aid billions of dollars in aid, yet Iran can't procure defence equipment.

[EmperorMagus]

Maark, on 14 April 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Just seen from the news that Russia is supplying Tehran with a missile defense system (i300s, I think?). This is a good example of that 'otherness' that I mentioned; there was no direct backlash from the news about it, but the general overtone that the report was giving off was "Russia is doing this and they are bad, and Iran must therefore be suspect by association'.

This is the same sort of thing that makes me wonder what the issue is with Iran running a nuclear program: why should they not be able to do things that nations elsewhere can?

Heh, as If Russia is going to give Iran anything without making them pay five times for it.
In all seriousness, I think the otherness is just a political ploy. Each side uses it in their hate rhetoric and as their propaganda. You see mostly the western side, I've experienced both sides. U.S has nothing to gain by directing the same malic towards Pakistan. They get Arab/Israeli Kudos when they do it towards Iran.

Furthermore, I think maybe the effect is multiplied by how Republican money affects U.S media and how much other media sources take their cues from U.S sources. I am not well read on the subject so these are all speculations.

[Maark Abbott]

EmperorMagus, on 14 April 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

Maark, on 14 April 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Just seen from the news that Russia is supplying Tehran with a missile defense system (i300s, I think?). This is a good example of that 'otherness' that I mentioned; there was no direct backlash from the news about it, but the general overtone that the report was giving off was "Russia is doing this and they are bad, and Iran must therefore be suspect by association'.

This is the same sort of thing that makes me wonder what the issue is with Iran running a nuclear program: why should they not be able to do things that nations elsewhere can?

Heh, as If Russia is going to give Iran anything without making them pay five times for it.
In all seriousness, I think the otherness is just a political ploy. Each side uses it in their hate rhetoric and as their propaganda. You see mostly the western side, I've experienced both sides. U.S has nothing to gain by directing the same malic towards Pakistan. They get Arab/Israeli Kudos when they do it towards Iran.

Furthermore, I think maybe the effect is multiplied by how Republican money affects U.S media and how much other media sources take their cues from U.S sources. I am not well read on the subject so these are all speculations.

I'm very skeptical of the western side, to be honest. Something about the portrayal just rankles.

[Cause]

We only have to look at Syria to admit to ourselves that Russia does have an agenda. One that is shockingly (Sarcasm)) pro Russian in sentiment. Selling Missile defence to Iran is a political move and countermove.