[Brujah]

REQUEST FOR THIS THREAD TO BE TEMPORARILY STICKIED.

That's so I won't have to keep looking for the tier thread, as it will always be on top.

These tiers can and will shuffle about as new polls are added and older polls receive new votes(enough votes to change the current outcome)

The first poll matchups went up in June of 2012, so 3 years of battles and 35 poll battles later and our results are as follows.


RESULTS as of June 13, 2015

The number next to the name is the number of votes received in that specific poll matchup.

1) Rake 44 defeats Draconus 24
*this poll also gave forum users an option to vote them "Equals" which received 16 votes. This really only left me wondering which character these 16 players would have chosen if this option wasn't available, and was only included in the first couple polls, then removed. For example, had the 16 who voted "Equals" voted Draconus if forced to choose one or the other, then the final results would have been 44 to 40. So the vote as "Equals" option was dropped for future matchups, save for a few.*

2)Cotillion 10 vs Quick Ben 6

3) Dassem Ultor 18 vs Karsa 7

4) Tool 11 vs Brys Beddict 3

5) Hood 18 vs Shadowthrone 10
*I recommend that everyone should view this poll as it has one of my favorite opening stories that sets the scene for the fight between these two. *

6) Laseen/Surly 25 vs Vorcan 24

7) Quick Ben 18 vs Dassem 12

8) Mok 29 vs Trull Sengar 12

9) Kalam Mekhar 30 vs Iron Bars 27

10) Karsa 26 vs Tool 22

11) Iron Bars 24 vs Gruntle 11
*included a third voting option
"Both collapse in exhaustion and tie. 4 votes *

12) Quick Ben 50 vs Karsa 18
*another of the polls with an option to vote them as "Equals" receiving 10 votes. *

13) Shadowthrone 29 v QuickBen 15

14) Silchas Ruin 33 vs Apsalar/Sorry 9

15) Hood 22 vs Dassem 8

16) Brys Beddict 21 vs Trull Sengar 16

17) Gesler 14 vs Stormy 9

18) Karsa 19 vs URKO Crust 10

19 Edgewalker 17 vs Osseric 16
*another poll with an "Equal" option gets 18 votes. *

20) Kallor 28 vs Kalam Mekhar 13

21) Leoman of the Flails 15 vs Redmask 11

22) Tayschrenn 91 vs Cowl 20

23) Mok 32 vs Brys Beddict 5

24) Kallor 47 vs Skinner 8

25) Hood 37 vs Karsa 4

26) Cotillion 20 vs Ganoes 7

27) Osseric 23 vs Kilmandaros 13

28) Telorast 8 vs Curdle 4

29) Sinn 23 vs Tattersail 5

30) Brys Beddict 21 vs Yedan Derryg 19
*option included "Equal" yields 2 votes*

31) Quick Ben 15 vs Ganoes Paran 12

32) Apsalar/Sorry 58 vs Lostara Yil 4

33) Mok 73 vs Kallor 29

34) Hood 26 vs Gothos 23
*included a third option for "Equal"
that received 13 votes.*

35) Trull Sengar 21 vs Spinnock Durav 12



Right now, based on the polls, we have:


Tier 1) Rake

Tier 2) Draconus

Tier 3) Hood, Gothos, Edgewalker, Osseric

Tier 4) Shadowthrone

Tier 5) Quick Ben , Cotillion

Tier 6) Dassem

Tier 7) Karsa

Tier 8) Mok

Tier 9) Kallor

Tier 10) Tool

Tier 11) Yedan Derryg, Brys Beddict

Tier 12) Trull Sengar

Tier 13) Spinnock Durav

Tier 14) Iron Bars, Kalam Mekhar




Many, many more characters still to be added, as



Also, please use this thread to help me make corrections to any mistakes I may have made, point out things I may have missed, help me compare and suggest tier rankings for any unranked characters, suggest polls that would be critical to helping establish an important piece in the tier ranks.




EDITS

Edit - added Tool in above Brys and Yedan, and since Brys and Yedan are tied, Tool also outranks Yedan by default.

Edit(June 11, 2015) - moved Rake to top tier alone, Draconus alone on 2, Osseric and Edgewalker moved to tier 3 with Hood and Gothos temporarily.

This post has been edited by Brujah: 26 June 2015 - 08:48 PM

[Andorion]

How are Osseric and Edgewalker all the way up there? Osseric compared to Rake isn't really much and we haven't actually seen Edgewalker do anything.

Caladan Brood should be at least a tier 2, and Kallor should be way higher. Iron Bars took out Teblor Gods and an Ascendant Jheck.

Names I think should be added: Silchas Ruin, Gruntle (in Trakes champion form), Apsalar (this will probably ignite another firestorm), Envy and Spite, Kilimandaros, Mael, Cowl, Raest.

Are we doing dragons? Then Silanah, and of course Korabas.

This post has been edited by Andorion: 01 April 2015 - 07:16 AM

[BellaGrace]

IMO Mael needs to be added - he's top tier

Agree with everything Andorian said.

Who decided on these rankings - I think Hood is top level - it was said in the books he could have been an elder God.

This post has been edited by BellaGrace: 01 April 2015 - 03:14 PM

[LinearPhilosopher]

QB over karsa? idk. In a straight on fight i'd bet on karsa everytime.

[Brujah]

All these current rankings were decided by all the polls labeled "Democratic Hierarchy of the Gods," and all of these questions and issues have been answered in the various other polls.

I'll need to actually go back into each of the polls and pull forth all relevant information, as it's far too spread about. I'll try to get around to that soon, and post it more concise here in this thread.

The above tiers were created from the results of battles voted on by forum members.

BalrogLord, on 01 April 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

QB over karsa? idk. In a straight on fight i'd bet on karsa everytime.

So would I. So did 17 other people. But Quick Ben received 50 votes, so that should answer your question.


Here's the poll battle between Quick Ben and Karsa:

http://forum.malazan...hy-of-the-gods/

[Brujah]

BellaGrace, on 01 April 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

IMO Mael needs to be added - he's top tier

Agree with everything Andorian said.

Who decided on these rankings - I think Hood is top level - it was said in the books he could have been an elder God.

Mael is definitely going to be a part of our rankings. He's just one of many characters I haven't been able to get to yet.

As for you thinking Hood should be top level, do you mean above everyone else on a top tier of his own, or as part of the current top tier with Rake, Draconus, Osseric, and Edgewalker?

Hood could most definitely end up in a higher tier, but not yet. We need more results. Also, since Hood tied in a poll battle with Gothos, the two of them would have to move together.


In this poll battle between Hood and Gothos, Hood had about 25 votes, Gothos had 23 votes, and we also had 12 votes claiming they were a tie.

http://forum.malazan...hy-of-the-gods/


When we have ties, it helps progress the tier ranks somewhat faster because now that Hood and Gothos have tied, if Hood was to ever win or lose to another character in a poll battle, we can also assume Gothos would also meet with the same result. Of course there will always be unique circumstances, but for the most part, it works quite well.

Hood is most definitely a true and total badass, but Mr. Erikson did say once that he'd choose Gothos as his 'shaved knuckle.'

Thems powerful words right thar.

But I digress. The forum has spoken. Hood and Gothos are too close to call, and remain on the same tier.


Lastly, please.don't forget how I've made sure to mention many times that these tier rankings are in no way final, and will more than likely shift about from time to time.

[Shadow Knight]

I mentioned this in a different post but people seem to be voting for there favourite character rather then who would win if there was ever a confrontation between them,

[Kartoolian Spider Squisher]

Kallor should be at the bottom of any list that comprises of ascendants.

[Shadow Knight]

I dont think Kallor is actually an ascendant is he?

[Kartoolian Spider Squisher]

Kallor is cursed to never ascend.

Edit: auto-correct fails

This post has been edited by Kartoolian Spider Squisher: 07 April 2015 - 08:33 PM

[Shadow Knight]

Ya so in the scheme of things he shouldnt be ranked on the same tier as any ascendent,

[melonhead]

Shadow Knight, on 07 April 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Ya so in the scheme of things he shouldnt be ranked on the same tier as any ascendent,

He is cursed never to ascend, but that doesn't mean he does not have crazy power. Like, he razed a entire civilisation and he wasn't ascendant then. Also, I believe it is stated by Krul somewhere in GotM that in these modern times, a mortal can kill a God.

[Brujah]

Shadow Knight, on 02 April 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

I mentioned this in a different post but people seem to be voting for there favourite character rather then who would win if there was ever a confrontation between them,

Yes, this is something that's going to affect these polls. I wish it could be helped.

What we'll be left with, when all is said and done, is the MalazanEmpire.com's fingerprint of a Hierarchy of Special Characters.

I just happen to prefer to call that unique fingerprint -

The Democratic Hierarchy of the Gods

[Brujah]

Kartoolian Spider Squisher, on 06 April 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

Kallor should be at the bottom of any list that comprises of ascendants.

It is confusing , I suppose, as I've named it a hierarchy of the gods, but if you've paid attention to the polls, then it's shown to include any of the major players in the storyline, as well as just as many of lesser written about characters.

It will include any character that deserves to be compared to someone else where the factor being used for comparison is their 'power.'

Simple. Power.

What is 'power?'

I'm sure we can come up with many, many different meanings. The definition we seek is something simple and easy to assign to each character for the purpose of deciding who is more powerful; who would win in a fight with X, Y, and Z.

The Malazan Realm is filled with characters of mortal men who aren't as mortal as the author would have you believe, along with characters that could be gods, some that actually are, and some that no one seems to know for sure. No one is what they seem, therefore we're basically dealing with a hierarchy of characters of varied powers, which I decided to compare based on votes from the people from our forum, and decided that the term 'gods' was a great word for dealing with any character of power that would end up making it on the list hierarchy.

[Brujah]

Andorion, on 01 April 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

How are Osseric and Edgewalker all the way up there? Osseric compared to Rake isn't really much and we haven't actually seen Edgewalker do anything.

Caladan Brood should be at least a tier 2, and Kallor should be way higher. Iron Bars took out Teblor Gods and an Ascendant Jheck.

Names I think should be added: Silchas Ruin, Gruntle (in Trakes champion form), Apsalar (this will probably ignite another firestorm), Envy and Spite, Kilimandaros, Mael, Cowl, Raest.

Are we doing dragons? Then Silanah, and of course Korabas.

To start off by answering you from the bottom of your post - Are we doing dragons? But of course. Any character at all is fair game.

As for Osseric and Edgewalker being tier 1, first remember that this isn't the final rankings and are going to keep shifting somewhat based on how the polls go.

The only characters we have ranked are done so solely on their results in the polls as of now. We have a poll ranking Osseric and Edgewalker as equals in power, and the books often speak of the epic battles between Osseric and Rake, whom we have temporarily equal as well. That's how Osseric and Edgewalker are still sitting on tier 1, though don't expect that to be the case in the end.

There's still much room for shifting and even more room for additional characters.

These rankings are all based straight from our own malazanempire polls.

I could see Osseric and Edgewalker falling down one or more tiers. I still see Rake sitting at the very top either along side Draconus, or a tier above Draconus.

Hood and Gothos could end up moving up past Osseric and Edgewalker, but it's tough to know how the votes will go.


As for Caladan Brood deserving to be tier 2, then he needs to start winning some polls.

He'd need to tie with either Hood or Gothos in a poll pairing to be a tier 2 character.


You mentioned Caladan Brood, Apsalar, Silanah, Silchas Ruin, etc.....

Which two characters would you like to see matched up in a poll to decide who's more powerful? And where they'd be ranked?


EDIT - I just remembered there is a poll between two of the characters you mentioned.

Silchas Ruin vs Apsalar/Sorry - Silchas Ruin easily defeated Apsalar in our poll. The current vote counts sit at 33 to 9 in favor of Silchas.

I felt it was important to mention this, even if I still doesn't provide enough information on either one to place on a tier quite yet.

This post has been edited by Brujah: 29 May 2015 - 04:39 AM

[Andorion]

Obviously Ruin would be more powerful than Apsalar, he is an ancient Elient Soletaken Ascendant after all.

I think Rake is above Osserc easily. In RG there's a reference to Osserc being beaten up by Rake, and then Rake outsmarting Osserc. IN fact while Rake vs Osserc battles are mentioned a lot, nobody ever says Osserc won any. Plus boing by poll rules, if its each character at the most powerful, Osserc could never match Dragnipur.

Plus what exactly has Osserc done in the books?

Apart from the above two references, he headbutted an Azath and almost killed himself, he got trapped in a dream and was used as fuel by a Mage, he got stabbed by Cowl and had to hide in a sword to survive, he got into a staring contest with Gothos and lost, he got clobbered by falling Jade meteors and fell unconscious. Thats it. Doesn't really make an impressive CV does it?

In fact the one positive thing he did was save L'Oric, whose net contribution after that was to be judgemental about babies.

[Brujah]

Andorion, on 30 May 2015 - 01:12 AM, said:

Obviously Ruin would be more powerful than Apsalar, he is an ancient Elient Soletaken Ascendant after all.

I think Rake is above Osserc easily. In RG there's a reference to Osserc being beaten up by Rake, and then Rake outsmarting Osserc. IN fact while Rake vs Osserc battles are mentioned a lot, nobody ever says Osserc won any. Plus boing by poll rules, if its each character at the most powerful, Osserc could never match Dragnipur.

Plus what exactly has Osserc done in the books?

Apart from the above two references, he headbutted an Azath and almost killed himself, he got trapped in a dream and was used as fuel by a Mage, he got stabbed by Cowl and had to hide in a sword to survive, he got into a staring contest with Gothos and lost, he got clobbered by falling Jade meteors and fell unconscious. Thats it. Doesn't really make an impressive CV does it?

In fact the one positive thing he did was save L'Oric, whose net contribution after that was to be judgemental about babies.

No I agree with you for the most part. Osseric hasn't really 'done' much at all in the books. Yet we do read passages here and there that make it seem as if Rake and Osseric were equals, but they are hard to find. This is one example.


"In this day there was war among the dragons. The First Born had all but one bowed necks to K’rul’s bargain. Their children, bereft of all that they would have inherited, htust skyward from the towers in great flurry yet even these were not uuited beyond rejecting the First Born. Factions arose and red rain descended upon all the Realms. Jaws fastened upon necks. Talons opened bellies. The breath of chaos melted flesh from bones. ‘Anomander, Osserick and others had already tasted the blood of Tiam, and now there came more with raging thirst and many a demonic abomination was spawned of this crimson nectar. So long as the Gates of Starvald Demelain remained open, unguarded and held by none, the war would not end, and so the red rain descended upon all the Realms. ‘Kurald Liosan was the first Realm to seal the portal between itself and Starvald Demelain, and the tale that follows recounts the slaughter committed by Osserick in cleansing his world of all the pretenders and rivals, the Soletaken and feral purebloods, even unto driving the very first D’ivers from his land. ‘This begins at the time when Osserick fought Anomander for the sixteenth time and both had blood on their faces before Kilmandaros, she who speaks with her fists, took upon herself the task of driving them apart."

-----------------------------------



But a lot of this information is old and I'd be ok with Rake having separated himself from Osseric and outgrown him in sheer power. Plus, like you said, Rake has Draginpur at his peak power.

I did say the results and.tiers were fluid and would shift for some time.

The poll with Rake vs Draconus has Rake on top, although I disagreed and voted Draconus. I think Draconus, once he's released from Draginpur, emerges more powerful than ever. He literally kills Kilmandaros and The Errant, one vs two, and it's not even a close fight. It's an execution. I think Draconus is still King Shit, but I have to go with the poll. I wonder if the 16 votes that went for 'rank them equal' had been applied to Draconus if there had been no 'equal' option available. This would have left the poll very close with Rake at 44 votes, and Draconus with 40. But assumptions aren't part of the equation.

Currently I'm debating on putting Rake on tier 1 alone, and Draconus on tier 2 alone. But do I then put Hood and Gothos on tier 3 and let Osseric and Edgewalker fall below them to tier 4, or would Osseric and Edgewalker outrank Hood and Gothos. This will have to be determined by a poll. I'll put it up tonight.

[Brujah]

RESULTS as of June 13, 2015

The number next to the name is the number of votes received in that specific poll matchup.

1) Rake 44 defeats Draconus 24
*this poll also gave forum users an option to vote them "Equals" which received 16 votes. This really only left me wondering which character these 16 players would have chosen if this option wasn't available, and was only included in the first couple polls, then removed. For example, had the 16 who voted "Equals" voted Draconus if forced to choose one or the other, then the final results would have been 44 to 40. So the vote as "Equals" option was dropped for future matchups, save for a few.*

2)Cotillion 10 vs Quick Ben 6

3) Dassem Ultor 18 vs Karsa 7

4) Tool 11 vs Brys Beddict 3

5) Hood 18 vs Shadowthrone 10
*I recommend that everyone should view this poll as it has one of my favorite opening stories that sets the scene for the fight between these two. *

6) Laseen/Surly 25 vs Vorcan 24

7) Quick Ben 18 vs Dassem 12

8) Mok 29 vs Trull Sengar 12

9) Kalam Mekhar 30 vs Iron Bars 27

10) Karsa 26 vs Tool 22

11) Iron Bars 24 vs Gruntle 11
*included a third voting option
"Both collapse in exhaustion and tie. 4 votes *

12) Quick Ben 50 vs Karsa 18
*another of the polls with an option to vote them as "Equals" receiving 10 votes. *

13) Shadowthrone 29 v QuickBen 15

14) Silchas Ruin 33 vs Apsalar/Sorry 9

15) Hood 22 vs Dassem 8

16) Brys Beddict 21 vs Trull Sengar 16

17) Gesler 14 vs Stormy 9

18) Karsa 19 vs URKO Crust 10

19 Edgewalker 17 vs Osseric 16
*another poll with an "Equal" option gets 18 votes. *

20) Kallor 28 vs Kalam Mekhar 13

21) Leoman of the Flails 15 vs Redmask 11

22) Tayschrenn 91 vs Cowl 20

23) Mok 32 vs Brys Beddict 5

24) Kallor 47 vs Skinner 8

25) Hood 37 vs Karsa 4

26) Cotillion 20 vs Ganoes 7

27) Osseric 23 vs Kilmandaros 13

28) Telorast 8 vs Curdle 4

29) Sinn 23 vs Tattersail 5

30) Brys Beddict 21 vs Yedan Derryg 19
*option included "Equal" yields 2 votes*

31) Quick Ben 15 vs Ganoes Paran 12

32) Apsalar/Sorry 58 vs Lostara Yil 4

33) Mok 73 vs Kallor 29

34) Hood 26 vs Gothos 23
*included a third option for "Equal"
that received 13 votes.*

35) Trull Sengar 21 vs Spinnock Durav 12





Right now, based on the polls, we have:


Tier 1) Rake

Tier 2) Draconus

Tier 3) Hood, Gothos, Edgewalker, Osseric

Tier 4) Shadowthrone

Tier 5) Quick Ben , Cotillion

Tier 6) Dassem

Tier 7) Karsa

Tier 8) Mok

Tier 9) Kallor

Tier 10) Tool

Tier 11) Yedan Derryg, Brys Beddict

Tier 12) Trull Sengar

Tier 13) Spinnock Durav

Tier 14) Iron Bars, Kalam Mekhar

[Kanese S's]

Andorion, on 01 April 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

How are Osseric and Edgewalker all the way up there? Osseric compared to Rake isn't really much and we haven't actually seen Edgewalker do anything.

Caladan Brood should be at least a tier 2, and Kallor should be way higher. Iron Bars took out Teblor Gods and an Ascendant Jheck.

Names I think should be added: Silchas Ruin, Gruntle (in Trakes champion form), Apsalar (this will probably ignite another firestorm), Envy and Spite, Kilimandaros, Mael, Cowl, Raest.

Are we doing dragons? Then Silanah, and of course Korabas.

I agree, Apsalar should be added, as she's basically, in terms of how dangerous she is, a clone of Dancer.

LinearPhilosopher, on 01 April 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

QB over karsa? idk. In a straight on fight i'd bet on karsa everytime.

And I'd bet on QB not allowing it to be a straight on fight.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Dassem vs Cottilion.

That needs to be a thing.

The forum will literally implode. The aftermath will be a dusty barren wasteland with a large rock in the middle stating "Brood waz hre"