[QuickTidal]

Ack! I haven't watched yet! Tonight probably. I'll weigh in after.

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 13 March 2025 - 09:30 AM, said:

Well, that was quite the opener!

Still feels like the fast forward button has been pushed, which I think is just something that needs to be accepted because of how much ground there is to cover.

The Forsaken continue to be the best thing about the show. Lanfear was brilliant in series 2 and it's as if the showrunner went "Oh, you thought Lanfear was potentially scary? You simply must meet Moghedien.."

Absolutely. That last scene in episode 1 was TERRIFYING...amazing work on the part of everyone involved in that. Also, the whole episode in general was just really kinetic and pacey, but everyone got a chance to shine for their reintroductions.

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 13 March 2025 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'm staunchly staying away from commentary on the series because I can already hear a certain section of audience losing its mind over:

Spoiler

Elayne and Aviendha. Can't say I so much as blinked at it, feels fine as an extension of their close bond in the books, and it'll be interesting to see how it plays into however the show decides to tackle Rand and his Wives later.

Agree with you entirely.

Spoiler

Was not even a bump on the road for me...and really later on in the book series when the harem existed, are we meant to assume that there never was a co-mingling of bodies in lust? I doubt the heck out of that, so this feels like it fits that notion well. Like "Hey Rand, we already have this relationship thing going, want to get down on this too?" LOL I dunno. But yeah, it was fine by me....same is true of Moiraine and Siuane's continued relationship which goes beyond the "we were pillow sisters when we were younger" stuff in the books....and I expect that later on it will be a point of conflict when Siuane gets....you know, married. So good fodder for relationship drama down the road.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 March 2025 - 12:28 PM

[Macros]

I'd say they will swing it aways from harem, with Min falling in with Mat

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 15 March 2025 - 07:13 AM, said:

I'd say they will swing it aways from harem, with Min falling in with Mat

That’s a really good assumption I think. The harem won’t fly wi5 current generations, but we may get some love triangle stuff

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Agreed, they seem to be making sure Min spends most of her time with Mat and they've barely had her interact with Rand at all.

Finished up the first three episodes. I'm impressed, if still finding it a bit intense with the sheer speed they're rattling through at.

Spoiler

It was great to meet Elaida, I look forward to seeing more of her. Morgase was great (that opening? That was COLD) and I think the change with Lord Gaebril is actually a smart one. It's going to hurt the whole Andoran royal family now when he's unmasked, rather than him being unknown to everyone bur Morgase. I'm also very glad they've thus far steered clear of the more extreme "lovesick puppy" side of the compulsion with Morgase, and I hope it stays gone. She's a smart woman and I always felt it was a bit of an injustice to her character in the books.

YAY we got the quarterstaff fight. Shame it was with no audience but it was good to see it. Donal Finn is great!

So we're one Forsaken short of our eight - one of the statues had a stringed instrument so I assumed it was Asmodean, but they seem to have set Loghain up to possibly take that storyline. They did mention Mazrim Taim in the third episode, so I think the potential is there for the red sisters to go to him, not come back, and he proceeds to be Demandred as originally intended? We shall see.

I'm enjoying the Aiel and it was great to see Maiden's Kiss included (Loail's face when they asked him to play!!) - but I hope Aviendha starts getting a bit more room to shine soon. I like the actress but she's not had a lot to work with since her introduction.

The Wise One with the Golden Crane tattoo was interesting - and hopefully means they'll give Lan a bit more to do as well.

Do we think we're getting Moiraine going through the doorway with Lanfear at all (whether this series or not)? It feels big to lose Rosamund Pike but given the truncated storyline she could end up only being absent for a whole season and then end on the cliffhanger that she isn't actually dead? I feel a bit 50/50 on whether they'll end up skipping that altogether.

Aaaaand we've met Faile. I will forgive the show literally everything if they make her less irritating. It's a big ask, but you never know.

Can someone please give Kate Fleetwood all the awards? She's just pure joy to watch, and elevating Liandrin into a worthwhile character was such a smart choice.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 17 March 2025 - 09:00 AM

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 17 March 2025 - 08:52 AM, said:

Agreed, they seem to be making sure Min spends most of her time with Mat and they've barely had her interact with Rand at all.

Yep, I noticed that too, and I ain't mad at it. It works. They vibe very well together. The actors have solid chemistry.

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 17 March 2025 - 08:52 AM, said:

Spoiler

I'm also very glad they've thus far steered clear of the more extreme "lovesick puppy" side of the compulsion with Morgase, and I hope it stays gone. She's a smart woman and I always felt it was a bit of an injustice to her character in the books.

Yep, same feeling here. Also is it me or is Olivia Williams in a blonde wig distracting? I dunno, I'm used to her with her natural hair...

YAY we got the quarterstaff fight. Shame it was with no audience but it was good to see it. Donal Finn is great!

I don't want to disparage Barney, but Donal Finn is OWNING the role of Mat so much more than he did....giving him ample amounts of the deeper upset, but keeping it light and airy on the surface to everyone.

I'm enjoying the Aiel but I hope Aviendha starts getting a bit more room to shine soon. I like the actress but she's not had a lot to work with since her introduction.

Agreed. Aviendha's role should have a deeper presence than she's delivering (whether that's script or actress)...she should be a force of nature, but for now Bain and Chiad are eating that lunch in their even sparser airtime. Ayoola Smart is good, but I think she's got better in her somewhere.

The Wise One with the Golden Crane tattoo was interesting - and hopefully means they'll give Lan a bit more to do as well.

Yeah, my wife (who is not a book reader) was like "Why did Moiraine gasp when she saw that girl? I was like, the tattoo is from Lan's lost homeland and I gasped too.

Do we think we're getting Moiraine going through the doorway with Lanfear at all (whether this series or not)? It feels big to lose Rosamund Pike but given the truncated storyline she could end up only being absent for a whole season and then end on the cliffhanger that she isn't actually dead? I feel a bit 50/50 on whether they'll end up skipping that altogether.

Yeah, she's 100% their lead actor...so yeah I could see it go either way....they might skip it, or they might try to fool the non-book nerds into buying she's dead....but IF they do that storyline, no way does she stay gone a season...4 eps at best.

Aaaaand we've met Faile. I will forgive the show literally everything if they make her less irritating. It's a big ask, but you never know.

I think they will. I don't think Jordan ever really knew how to make her less irritating because to him she wasn't...so he never net her storyline to make her the way. I think they'll give her the opinionated edge from the books that she has up front (we already saw shades of it), but that will soften as time goes on and they might give her some heroics to warm the audience to what has been a pretty universally disliked character. Hell, even watching I saw her pop up and I said out loud "Oh good, THERE SHE IS....fucking Faile"...and my wife was like "Who? that girl who looks like Billie Eilish?"....LOL



Can someone please give Kate Fleetwood all the awards? She's just pure joy to watch, and elevating Liandrin into a worthwhile character was such a smart choice.

I was saying to my wife that they've done SO right by Liandrin on the show VS the books where she feels cartoonishly evil...kind of like some other villains in well written material they REALLY show you why and how she went bad and embraced darkness...she comes from a fucked up family in a fucked up place. When they crash the wedding in Tanchico and she rescues the child bride and gives her squad the go-ahead to take no prisoners you almost go "Fuck yeah, fuck all those horrid people"


I would also like to note that Priyanka Bose is doing a LOT of great heavy lifting this series. She's probably my fave non-Moiraine Aes Sedai....just chewing scenery and being a badass. And diving into the bond with her Ivhor and Maksim just gives so much more meat to the proceedings dramatically.

My comments on yours in red inside the spoiler text.


Loving this season. What day does the next episode drop?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 17 March 2025 - 11:50 AM

[QuickTidal]

The Rotten Tomatoes score is off the charts this season...

Critics: 94%
Audience: 89%

They've come a long way from the juddering covid-interrupted S1....which coincidentally is where Amazon's other fantasy show RINGS OF POWER sits for score at s2 (84% critical, 59% audience).

I don't think we need to worry about the show getting axed before they finish the story if the ratings keep up like this.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 17 March 2025 - 02:41 PM

[Cause]

Season 3 is a lot better. The budget is up, the characters have more chance to do things. I think in some ways I am happier because the show is now so far off track I dont have an uncanny valley effect in my brain. They still try to capture some of the same story beats but I am still not sure they always capture the right ones. Its far from perfect and not the show I wanted but so far season 3 is off to a good start.

Season 3, episode 3: Finally we got to see Rand train with lan. Its should have been season 1 but we cant go back

Spoiler

The Harem. I can see them abandoning but I can also see them keeping it. I actually feel like for now they are keeping their options open. Elayne slept with Aviendha yes but this could also just lead to the creation of a thrupple/polycule that's more balanced than just the chosen one and his 3 women. They have also used Alanna to prepare the audience for this. Elayne was also supportive of Rand and tried to ask Aviendha to give Rand a chance too. I would have to go back to season 1 but I am sure they did play a scene that hinted that min was kind to and helped Rand because she knew they were tied together. She has had the least interaction with him since and has instead spent more time with Rand and 'book Min' would have tried to at least get a chance to see Rand if she knew she was nearby. So its weird if she has foretold their love life and just doesn't respond. Which would be a major change.

As far as the importance of Rands lovers goes its Min>>>Aviendha>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Elayne. Elayne is the only one that pursues him from the very beginning but they spend like ten days together (1 in book 1, a couple in book 2 post falme, and a week in tear?). Aviendha and Rand bond heavily in the aiel waste but Min carries him through most of the series, close by his side, until they all start reuniting near the end. They could change all of this but not even having Min end up with Rand would seem strange.

What makes this love Harem more complicated is they have perhaps improved the early Lanfear storyline and we can see that Rand and Selene are closer and the temptations she offers feal more real. He is also still with Egwene aswell and they are having *gasp* sex. Of course RJ was even more chaste than brandon sanderson so I dont mind this at all but in the books Egwene had long ago left Rand behind. If he jumps from egwene and Lanfears beds to Aviendha, Elayne and Mins beds he really will be a letch. Although Rand not thinking he is a rapist for having consensual sex is also a huge and welcome improvement.

If I had to guess a combination of finding Lanfear in Rands dreams, the arches and the Rhuidean rings may finally cause Egwene to break with Rand. I also believe we will see the moraine and Lanfear battle in the last or penultimate episode.

Having Lanfear responsible for the bubble of evil effects seems like a mistake. If the forsaken can do things like that then they have already won. Which was already a kind of problem in the books only partially explained away by their goal to capture and turn rather then kill rand.

I do think culling down the frosaken from 13 to just 8 is good move, Many of them accomplished so little and can be rolled into each other. Despite some overlap between Sammael and Demandred I hope Demandred is one of the 8. Also had no idea thats how you pronounce Semiraghe. I thought at first they had gender swapped her and changed the name but seems I have always just said it wildly wrong. Demandred as Mazrim Tiam may make an easier plot than having to find the time for Shara.

This post has been edited by Cause: 17 March 2025 - 05:55 PM

[the broken]

WOT continues to be interesting.

Spoiler

They seem to be going for a soft reboot closer to the books, which runs into problems because it doesn't line up with things previously set up in the show itself. How does that artist in Tar Valon know what Ishamael looks like? Season 1 Mat might brag about the Horn, but Season 3 definitely would not. Liandrin needs a fast escape from Tar Valon. She knows how to use the Ways, as established in Season 2, she wouldn't try to cut her way out through the docks.

Siuan's story about her uncle works in the books because Mat is super reliable, in the show he has repeatedly run away from trouble, so it doesn't fit who he is. Also, "I'm sure you wouldn't use the horn as social capital' is a lie, which Siuan should not be able to say. Careless, scriptwriters.

Rand would not get all smirky and happy about Selene, that was a super traumatic betrayal.

Min is angry that Mat holds a mild grudge about betraying him to Ishamael. That's kind of a dungeonworthy offence, he's being very very nice about it.

Aviendha/Elayne was mostly funny, because Elayne's totally lying about her last night of freedom, alchohol and novice sex is not in short supply in the tower, as demonstrated by Gawyn and Galad.

If Callandor is known to be a necessary tool for the Dragon, what was Moiraine smoking in Season 1 that she thought the Dragon was facing the Dark One at the eye?

The performances are still brilliant. Elaida is absolutely perfect. Liandrin is perfect.

It's a step up, but they disregarded a lot of what was in Season 1 and 2 to make this happen. Hard to know if it'll work going forward.

This post has been edited by the broken: 17 March 2025 - 11:11 PM

[QuickTidal]

the broken, on 17 March 2025 - 11:09 PM, said:

WOT continues to be interesting.

Spoiler

They seem to be going for a soft reboot closer to the books, which runs into problems because it doesn't line up with things previously set up in the show itself. How does that artist in Tar Valon know what Ishamael looks like? Season 1 Mat might brag about the Horn, but Season 3 definitely would not. Liandrin needs a fast escape from Tar Valon. She knows how to use the Ways, as established in Season 2, she wouldn't try to cut her way out through the docks.

Siuan's story about her uncle works in the books because Mat is super reliable, in the show he has repeatedly run away from trouble, so it doesn't fit who he is. Also, "I'm sure you wouldn't use the horn as social capital' is a lie, which Siuan should not be able to say. Careless, scriptwriters.

Rand would not get all smirky and happy about Selene, that was a super traumatic betrayal.

Min is angry that Mat holds a mild grudge about betraying him to Ishamael. That's kind of a dungeonworthy offence, he's being very very nice about it.

Aviendha/Elayne was mostly funny, because Elayne's totally lying about her last night of freedom, alchohol and novice sex is not in short supply in the tower, as demonstrated by Gawyn and Galad.

If Callandor is known to be a necessary tool for the Dragon, what was Moiraine smoking in Season 1 that she thought the Dragon was facing the Dark One at the eye?

The performances are still brilliant. Elaida is absolutely perfect. Liandrin is perfect.

It's a step up, but they disregarded a lot of what was in Season 1 and 2 to make this happen. Hard to know if it'll work going forward.

Nope. They've been explicit, this is not the books, this is another turn of the Wheel accounting for the differences.

[Cause]

QuickTidal, on 18 March 2025 - 11:43 AM, said:

the broken, on 17 March 2025 - 11:09 PM, said:

WOT continues to be interesting.

Spoiler

They seem to be going for a soft reboot closer to the books, which runs into problems because it doesn't line up with things previously set up in the show itself. How does that artist in Tar Valon know what Ishamael looks like? Season 1 Mat might brag about the Horn, but Season 3 definitely would not. Liandrin needs a fast escape from Tar Valon. She knows how to use the Ways, as established in Season 2, she wouldn't try to cut her way out through the docks.

Siuan's story about her uncle works in the books because Mat is super reliable, in the show he has repeatedly run away from trouble, so it doesn't fit who he is. Also, "I'm sure you wouldn't use the horn as social capital' is a lie, which Siuan should not be able to say. Careless, scriptwriters.

Rand would not get all smirky and happy about Selene, that was a super traumatic betrayal.

Min is angry that Mat holds a mild grudge about betraying him to Ishamael. That's kind of a dungeonworthy offence, he's being very very nice about it.

Aviendha/Elayne was mostly funny, because Elayne's totally lying about her last night of freedom, alchohol and novice sex is not in short supply in the tower, as demonstrated by Gawyn and Galad.

If Callandor is known to be a necessary tool for the Dragon, what was Moiraine smoking in Season 1 that she thought the Dragon was facing the Dark One at the eye?

The performances are still brilliant. Elaida is absolutely perfect. Liandrin is perfect.

It's a step up, but they disregarded a lot of what was in Season 1 and 2 to make this happen. Hard to know if it'll work going forward.

Nope. They've been explicit, this is not the books, this is another turn of the Wheel accounting for the differences.

Or its just an adaption. Rand isnt trapped in a circle fo breaking the world and then fixing it for all times. Besides balefire means half the cast would be missing.

Am I quibling yes, but for some reason the conceipt of it being another turn of the wheel bugs me.

[QuickTidal]

Cause, on 18 March 2025 - 05:59 PM, said:

Am I quibling yes, but for some reason the conceipt of it being another turn of the wheel bugs me.

Why? It's literally what the whole world in the books is based on. Repeated trips around the wheel, each one trying to get it "right"

[the broken]

Spoiler

It doesn't have to be consistent with the books, but it has to be consistent with itself season to season. But sometimes stuff happens that is consistent with the books, but not consistent with anything the show has set up. The artist in Tar Valon is drawing Rand and Ishamael fighting in the sky in Falme, despite the fact that never happened in the show. Perrin uses the super dangerous Ways to go back home, even though he doesn't have a reason to do that because he doesn't know about the Whitecloaks or Trollocs yet. Mat does not go home, even though he should be very concerned about his sisters, as established in Season 1.

Siuan tells Mat the story about her uncle because she did in the books, even though Show Mat doesn't resemble her uncle.

Callandor is suddenly something the dragon absolutely needs, even though Moiraine wasn't worried about him not having it facing the dark one at the Eye in Season 1.

Liandrin doesn't use the Waygate to escape the Tower, even though that's a much better option than trying to cut her way to the docks.


Moirainew had a sa'angreal in Season 1 that everyone has forgotten about. Siuan trusts Min's visions, even though Min spent last season working for her arch-rival Liandrin, and Ishamael.

Half the Sitters were killed in the Hall of the Tower, and everyone is weirdly nonchalant about that.

This post has been edited by the broken: 19 March 2025 - 01:37 AM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 18 March 2025 - 06:09 PM, said:

Cause, on 18 March 2025 - 05:59 PM, said:

Am I quibling yes, but for some reason the conceipt of it being another turn of the wheel bugs me.

Why? It's literally what the whole world in the books is based on. Repeated trips around the wheel, each one trying to get it "right"

Y'know they tried that w THE DARK TOWER film and tv, no one bought it, likely because the products weren't actually that good.
Here tho, the product IS good, which should be enough to get over the hump to the extent anyone needs to if they're enjoying the show. I ack if someone isn't enjoying it, or is determined to hate it, then the wheel can spin at 1000 rpms and they won't care.

[Cause]

I don't think there is any shame in calling an adaption an adaption and that's what it is.

The author who created the setting is dead, they have adapted and changed his work and there is no reason they cant, but calling it an alternate spin of the wheel makes their story the equal of his.

From a storyline point of view the wheel is cycle and ages come and pass but while they may have shared themes they are not near identical reweaving of the same threads. Rand isn't reborn to fix Lews Therin unfinished business only to be reborn as Lews Therin and make that unfinished business until they unlock some perfect cycle of the wheel. Under this interpretation of the wheel I may actually come to believe Ishamael has a point. I remmeber that Lews Therin was addressed as the Dragon Reborn when he was introduced sometime in season 2. I took it to just mean they didn't trust the audience to realize that if Lews is the Dragon and Rand is the Dragon reborn then Rand is Lews Therin. Now I think its a change to the story that alters the theme of the Wheel of time entirely.

Spoiler

Rands awakening and ephinany that infinite lives give him infinite chances to enjoy life, make up for his past mistakes but also to to reunite with loves one is a beautiful thought and counter to Ishamaels Nihilism. He literally manifests sunny skies and flowers wherever he goes after this moment. If instead Rand spends every incarnation of his soul stuck in the most horrendous war than yeah maybe he should just balefire the wheel from existence.

They could call it a portal stone world if they want or again they could just call it Amazons wheel of time too.

[the broken]

If it actually was another turning of the wheel, the magic system would not be different. It's just a way of saying 'this will not be a 1 to 1 adaptation' which nobody is expecting anyway.

[QuickTidal]

the broken, on 19 March 2025 - 06:01 PM, said:

If it actually was another turning of the wheel, the magic system would not be different. It's just a way of saying 'this will not be a 1 to 1 adaptation' which nobody is expecting anyway.

Says who? You?

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Episode 4.

They devoted the entire episode to Rhuidean. Best decision they've made in three series.

Spoiler

It was lovely to see Josha have more to get his teeth in to (playing all of the figures Rand witnesses the past through) and he did great. Rand at this point is just so bland.

[Cause]

Very good episode.

Spoiler

Interesting that they had him experience a vision of his father. I remember they tell him who his father and mother were but I can’t remember if they explain right away that his mother was daughter heir of andor. Or if we as the reader intuit that before they really say it. I don’t believe Rand or anyone really figures out slayer is his uncle and land brother.

Landers mentioned it already so to see it come up so quickly and for Morraine to just take the most powerful sangreal so soon was still a surprise. I can see why dropping the choden kal was a decision but to replacing them with this sangreal and calandor will cause a lot of changes. Rand can’t almost destroy the world with calandor, unless he can, but then he has so much more power. Setting it up so he and a women do challenge the dark one with the one power would also be a huge change. In fact I can’t see how the season doesn’t end with it being lost.

Making sevena even more evil/selfish right from the get go. Her husband is dead and instead of marrying his brother she married his son? Aka her son? Presumably step son we hope. And she will soon marry her step son’s brother, aka her other son. I don’t see why this change is necessary at all? She seems to be a wise one already which may just simplify the plot.

Was Rand in rhuidean for 7 days before I can’t remember ? It seems against lanfears plots this time to put the dragons on couladins arms but clearly it’s being set up.

This post has been edited by Cause: 20 March 2025 - 07:35 PM

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 20 March 2025 - 04:35 PM, said:

Episode 4.

They devoted the entire episode to Rhuidean. Best decision they've made in three series.

Spoiler

It was lovely to see Josha have more to get his teeth in to (playing all of the figures Rand witnesses the past through) and he did great. Rand at this point is just so bland.

GREAT episode!

Spoiler

Getting to see the Sharom split apart from the bore into the pattern and thus the Dark One's Prison and in turn releasing the Dark One was REALLLLLLLLLLLY cool. The black/bleeding affect and splintering almost glitch before it imploded was a DOPE special effect. IIRC in the books it's over a futuristic city and not an idyllic field with the Jenn. Aiel working it....but still cool as fuck.

I'm at SHADOW RISING in my Re-read so it will be really nice to have something to picture now when I re-read that bit.

EDIT: Things I didn't QUITE understand or perhaps didn't grasp the full weight of in the books that last nights ep made clear:

Spoiler

So The Aiel were once one people with the Tuatha'danan (the song that the latter are seeking is the song they sang as a united people having tilling the land) and the split occurred when on the road to escape the Breaking and take the Avendesora trees to safety, bandits took and assaulted some of the Aiel and Rands Ancestor killed them with a sword, thus being shunned and the spit occured. Modern Aiel follow the way of that violence with spears and veils, and the Tinkers follow the original Aes Sedai instructions and the way of the Leaf.

The most powerful Sangreal for Saidar is in the tree in Rhuidean.

Mieren Sedai, during the Age of Legends (AKA the Future) in her floating sphere of science-doing finds a spot where the Pattern is thin and realizes she can BORE into it to access the fabled "True Source"....non-gender split magic....but this action accidentally allows the Dark One (who up until now had been locked way in a Void outside the pattern) to influence the World....and this causes the evil to infect the closest people at that point, Mieren becoming Lanfear....I assume on the promise by the Dark One that he will allow them to access the True Source.

This action implodes the Science-Doing Sphere to implode with the Dark Ones presence leaking out.

It just gives me a fresher and cleaner perspective on events I was fuzzy on the first time I read the books. Love that.

Also someone could correct me if I'm wrong, but using:

Spoiler

Latra as the Ads Sedai who shows up in the crystal columns in Rhuidean who tells the Aiel about their past, since it was she as Amyrlin Seat who warned Lews Therin against sealing the Dark One in a prison, feels a smart choice...and I can't recall if that was who was there in the Books or was it just visions? anyways, I felt it worked well to use her (who we have no seen since the end of S1 in the 3000 years Ago scene)

EDIT 2: Also Moiraine's vision being this constantly moving spinning 360 of her view was genius as it not only ratcheted up the tension but allowed Rands visions to be the meat of the episode, which I feel was more important. Well done.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 March 2025 - 01:44 PM