[BellaGrace]

I'm halfway through TCG (so no end of book spoilers).

I've been thinking about questions I have that needed answering by the end of the series...

One of them was about Gothos. Wasn't he a guardian of the Deadhouse in Malaz City - I seem to recall at the end of one of the books a bunch of people were in an Azath in 7C and ended up coming out in the Deadhouse Azoth and they found Gothos there and there was a discussion about Icarium.

So the question is...if Gothos was an Azath house guardian, how did he later end up in a tower in Genabackis where Nimander & crew ran into him? I had the impression that Azoth house duty was a permanent job. Even if Gothos is there voluntarily, he couldn't just leave it unattended could he?

Was this ever explained - maybe in one of ICE's books? (I've only read the first two).

[D'rek]

Indeed, something doesn't line up does it?


In Night of Knives, Jhenna was said to be the Deadhouse's Guardian and after she was defeated Temper took over the role. That was quite a while before Deadhouse Gates, but then in The Bonehunters Temper seems to still be filling the role, albeit not necessarily in the same way (he can leave the grounds and drink at Coop's). But Fiddler and co. did assert that Gothos was the Guardian in DG. Then there's also the problem that Gothos was supposedly held by a different Azath that Icarium destroyed, so why is he guarding the Deadhouse then?

And yes, we then saw Gothos on Genebackis in Toll the Hounds... but Gothos tells Kallor that the edifice they are in is a dormant/deceased Azath house. Then Nimander tumbles into the glass world where the Builder is building Azath houses and says Gothos makes them disappear to somewhere else every time.

So, it certainly seems like Gothos is no Azath Guardian, but he does seem to have some role related to the Azath. Possibly as powerful and complex as being the one who is controlling their creation and choosing where they appear.

Whether that is true or not, of course it doesn't tell us why he is doing it, or why Gothos in particular is the one doing it.

Personally, my pet theory is that Gothos is the leader of or heavily involved with the Nameless Ones and their Azath worship/usage, too.

[Aptorian]

What D'rek said.

The assumption is the DG was that he was some kind of guardian. However, as far as I recall, Gothos implied that he was just staying there because he felt like it. That's why Icariums assault on the Azath was so tragic/stupid. Gothos wasn't a prisoner, he was there on his own volition.

Of all the characters we have encountered this series, Gothos definitely appears to be the most knowledgeable and ressourceful. I find it very likely that Gothos has been manipulating the Azath structures for quite some time. To what end is however not certain.

[BellaGrace]

Both good answers/explanations. However, that leaves still leaves the Deadhouse without a guardian.

Regarding NoK - I always thought that Temper was some kind of "grounds guardian" (call it whatever you like) - I got the impression that he was not the same role as the inside guardian.

Although, do all Azath houses have to have guardians? The one that was made out of Kettle didn't have one (unless her ghost was it?) - and the one Icarium made with the Errant's eyeball at the big KCCM fight doesn't have one (or maybe it does? That's possibly venturing into spoiler territory for me since I'm not finished with Crippled God yet).

This post has been edited by BellaGrace: 21 January 2015 - 09:46 PM

[worry]

The one made out of Kettle was also, in a way, made out of Scabandari so maybe it's him, but yah it's unclear what role either of them have inside it. Also not sure if the underwater one had any, as it sure wasn't Sech or Kil.

The one from the end of DoD probably has Sulkit as its guardian.

[D'rek]

Perhaps all Azath *can* have a Guardian, but certainly not all Azath always do. As far as we know, the Azath don't immediately have a Guardian created in them when they are created, so there would at least be some time without a Guardian before the first one is picked. And then if a Guardian dies/rebels/flees/whatever a new one isn't necessarily recruited immediately - ie Tremorlor in DG (Guardian had been dead/gone for a while, then Moby takes the position).


Temper is an interesting case. There's been some speculation that the Deadhouse could have inside and outside Guardians, and that the Faro/Trenech were the outer Guardian(s) while Jhenna was the inner Guardian. Temper was pushed into becoming the new Guardian by the dying Faro, IIRC, but that could've been for either, if there is a difference. Then in The Bonehunters it seems the armoured figure who pulls Kalam into the Deadhouse couldn't be Temper because he steps out from Coop's a minute later (but then again, Coop's has stairs leading down to the basement with an unnatural chill... Temper's secret tunnel to-and-from the Deadhouse? ).

So, your guess is as good as mine and I don't think we'll ever get an explicit answer/explanation. I do like the idea that because Temper became the Guardian voluntarily he is allowed some freedom, while when the Azath makes a deal with one of its prisoners it keeps them more contained.

This also brings up the suits of armour that seem to be in every Azath, and the question of whether they're just awesome armour the Guardians wear or whether they are autonomous/Azath-controlled beings separate from the Guardians.

[Andorion]

To add to the discussion, I always felt Gothos was some type of super-guardian. Clearly his abilities meant he was never bound to a single Azath, as he keeps on popping up all over the place, but the TTH segment made me think that Azath houses are needed not just in Wu but in many other places and Gothos has taken over the duty to distribute thme as needed.

[BellaGrace]

D, on 21 January 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

This also brings up the suits of armour that seem to be in every Azath, and the question of whether they're just awesome armour the Guardians wear or whether they are autonomous/Azath-controlled beings separate from the Guardians.

Wasn't there a part in DG where the Suit of Armor spoke - I seem to recall after everyone left the monkey and the armor were talking...

However, I could be remembering wrong...I loaned my copy of DG to my brother so I can't go look up the part I'm thinking of.

[D'rek]

BellaGrace, on 22 January 2015 - 01:14 AM, said:

D, on 21 January 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

This also brings up the suits of armour that seem to be in every Azath, and the question of whether they're just awesome armour the Guardians wear or whether they are autonomous/Azath-controlled beings separate from the Guardians.

Wasn't there a part in DG where the Suit of Armor spoke - I seem to recall after everyone left the monkey and the armor were talking...

However, I could be remembering wrong...I loaned my copy of DG to my brother so I can't go look up the part I'm thinking of.

I think you're right, excellent point! I wonder if it was the armour itself talking or the Azath talking through the armour?

[BellaGrace]

D, on 22 January 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

I think you're right, excellent point! I wonder if it was the armour itself talking or the Azath talking through the armour?

right - that's how I "read" it - like the house was sentient and talking through the armor.

it's weird the details I remember and then there will be some minor character that has appeared in four books and I won't be able to remember who it is...then I wiki-search it and inevitably end up reading a spoiler...