[Una]

The context is that the long form census is getting reinstated, but I still like this quote from the new Innovation, Science, and Economic Development Minister "We know the history of the past government and they very much focused on ideology. We're focused on sound, evidence-based policies. We want to make sure we're driving good policies based on good evidence and quality data."
Oooooh....that sounds soooo good! Tell me more!

Also, looks like the scientists with the Department of Fisheries have been officially authorized to speak with the media and the expectation is that is going to be government-wide.
http://www.nationalo...zles-scientists

They just got sworn in 2 days ago and clearly wasting no time. Now, I recognize this is kind of the low-hanging fruit when it comes to all the promises they made, but you rarely expect government to get on things right away like this. Parliament doesn't even reconvene until December, after all.

[LinearPhilosopher]

http://syruptrap.ca/...ised-by-wolves/

too funny not to share

[Nevyn]

Necro to complain about Doug Ford.

I am so ridiculously pissed at and embarrassed by the Ontario PC's right now. 4 months ago, if I'd been sitting in a bar and you'd asked if if the PCs could possibly lose the spring election, I'd have said something like "No, well maybe if their leader is caught in a sexual misconduct scandal and they put up , I don't know, Doug Ford to replace him ...."

I mean, wtf. This is not only a terrible leader, but really the only way they can let the Liberals somehow gain power or bring the NDP into play. And the worst part to me is that they pick the leader by PREFERENTIAL BALLOT by riding. That means you can have 35% embarassing nutbars in your party who love this chucklehead, but as long as the other 65% rank the sane candidates ahead of him we are fine. It means he was 1 or 2 on a LOT of the ballots. Which means that not only can I not back this party for this election because I can't abide their leader, but it is tough to see oneself backing them in future if these are the morons I'd be agreeing with.


And of course, the next scary proposition is .... he could actually win. Please no, please god no. Congrats Ontario PCs, you've managed me to want another 4 years of Wynne alternating between scamming and pandering.

[Abyss]

 Nevyn, on 12 March 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

Necro to complain about Doug Ford.

I am so ridiculously pissed at and embarrassed by the Ontario PC's right now. 4 months ago, if I'd been sitting in a bar and you'd asked if if the PCs could possibly lose the spring election, I'd have said something like "No, well maybe if their leader is caught in a sexual misconduct scandal and they put up , I don't know, Doug Ford to replace him ...."

I mean, wtf. This is not only a terrible leader, but really the only way they can let the Liberals somehow gain power or bring the NDP into play. And the worst part to me is that they pick the leader by PREFERENTIAL BALLOT by riding. That means you can have 35% embarassing nutbars in your party who love this chucklehead, but as long as the other 65% rank the sane candidates ahead of him we are fine. It means he was 1 or 2 on a LOT of the ballots. Which means that not only can I not back this party for this election because I can't abide their leader, but it is tough to see oneself backing them in future if these are the morons I'd be agreeing with.


And of course, the next scary proposition is .... he could actually win. Please no, please god no. Congrats Ontario PCs, you've managed me to want another 4 years of Wynne alternating between scamming and pandering.

Pre Trump, I would have called a Ford win an impossibility. Now...

[QuickTidal]

 Nevyn, on 12 March 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

Necro to complain about Doug Ford.

I am so ridiculously pissed at and embarrassed by the Ontario PC's right now. 4 months ago, if I'd been sitting in a bar and you'd asked if if the PCs could possibly lose the spring election, I'd have said something like "No, well maybe if their leader is caught in a sexual misconduct scandal and they put up , I don't know, Doug Ford to replace him ...."

I mean, wtf. This is not only a terrible leader, but really the only way they can let the Liberals somehow gain power or bring the NDP into play. And the worst part to me is that they pick the leader by PREFERENTIAL BALLOT by riding. That means you can have 35% embarassing nutbars in your party who love this chucklehead, but as long as the other 65% rank the sane candidates ahead of him we are fine. It means he was 1 or 2 on a LOT of the ballots. Which means that not only can I not back this party for this election because I can't abide their leader, but it is tough to see oneself backing them in future if these are the morons I'd be agreeing with.


And of course, the next scary proposition is .... he could actually win. Please no, please god no. Congrats Ontario PCs, you've managed me to want another 4 years of Wynne alternating between scamming and pandering.

Agreed.

They literally had the easiest layup in the history of CDN politics.

Put up ANYONE who was competent, mild enough to not rock the boat TOO much, and still ascribed to your parties core goals….to go against a Liberal candidate (Wynne) who was re-running (inexplicably) even though she’s hated by so many, and even Liberals are sick and tired of her shit.

This was (or should have been) a SLAM dunk provincial election for the PCs, made even better by the recent/abrupt ousting of “no one really likes him” Patrick Brown as leader.

Even as a Liberal myself, I was sick of Wynne, and was willing to hear out what the PC’s (and NDP) were going to offer up and who. I almost always vote platform…but Wynne is THAT level of bad that I was considering all my options just to see her gone.....but I'd still PROBABLY vote liberal....

They had that chance, and (in my eyes) the option that brought them all they wanted was Elliot.

And they give it to Doug Bloody Ford. Brother of the worst mayor Toronto has ever seen. Born into money, and ran a shitty label company, and has more skeletons in his closet than Brown.

I can’t even fathom the choice. I don’t know which PC’s assumed this was the best option…but they are unanimously idiots who took what should have been a slam dunk and made it a messy fight…and have basically put the premiership of my damned province within reach of…a Trump-like populist…instead of the three women he was up against. Showing once and for all…that sexism is obviously quite alive and well in Progressive Conservative circles of our government.

And the NDP shot themselves in the foot after the last election by leaving Horvath in charge who moved their party Right of Centre (inexplicably)….leaving them even more of a laughing stock than they normally are (newsflash NDPers…you want to be taken seriously? Put up a leader that is not some beige static painting who bends to the whims of the wind direction; you need Jack Layton WAY more now than you ever did).

If Ford wins, this is going to be Mike Harris 2.0…and ten times worse.

What’s most amusing? Rural voters are all very happy…believing that Ford will make their lives better….because apparently no one told those braindead hicks that this guy was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and he only moves it to lie through his teeth.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 12 March 2018 - 07:03 PM

[Nevyn]

Mike Harris was far better than Ford would be.

Harsh on the balance sheet, but it is important to remember those were the days of federal spending getting downloaded onto provinces. For all the complaining, he was a competent face for governance. Certainly economically more right than many Ontarians, but electably so.

And he also did not go down the social conservative and populist rabbit holes that Ford is likely to.

[QuickTidal]

 Nevyn, on 12 March 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

Mike Harris was far better than Ford would be.

Harsh on the balance sheet, but it is important to remember those were the days of federal spending getting downloaded onto provinces. For all the complaining, he was a competent face for governance. Certainly economically more right than many Ontarians, but electably so.

And he also did not go down the social conservative and populist rabbit holes that Ford is likely to.

I will NEVER forgive Harris for eternally fucking over the TTC.

Never. He is in my personal "politics doghouse" (name of my cover band!) on the back of that decision alone.

[LinearPhilosopher]

And here i was hoping for a second mulroney, le sigh.

At this rate ill prolly vote green or some other dumb crap.

[Nevyn]

 LinearPhilosopher, on 12 March 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

And here i was hoping for a second mulroney, le sigh.

At this rate ill prolly vote green or some other dumb crap.

Give it time. She's not even an mpp yet.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 12 March 2018 - 11:24 PM

[D'rek]

On the plus side, non-LCBO pot stores.

[LinearPhilosopher]

 D, on 13 March 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

On the plus side, non-LCBO pot stores.

id much rather a free market approach to cannabis rather than state sponsored incompetence so long as it's well regulated.

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 14 March 2018 - 09:25 AM

[Abyss]

 D, on 13 March 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

On the plus side, non-LCBO pot stores.

Shoppers Drugmart ... heehee...

[Gothos]

I have to ask our resident Canadians... sitting in front row seats, how do you feel about Jordan Peterson and the issue of pronouns?

I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but at first I thought that theme was some sort of internet humour in the vein of TheOnion. When it became apparent that this has actually become a heated issue, I was mortified.

But why, G-man? Are you a privileged straight white boy raging at alternative lifestyles having a chance at being respected?
Why, no, dear disembodied conversation partner! My issue is what this signifies for contemporary political and social discourse.

Now, while I don't really have anything against adding gender identity into the pool of grounds on which discrimination can be recognized by law, I can't find in that bill exactly why would not calling a transsexual student or faculty member by a gender-neutral pronoun like 'zhe' or 'zher' be so controversial. Why has this risen to the rank of hate speech for so many?
Are we at that point where the rank and meaning of hate speech has become so diluted that a pronoun becomes a matter of defending human rights? Or is this, in fact, a matter that's just been blown out of proportion in certain circles, but
is generally absent from the day-to-day existance of the general population?
It is my opinion that we live in times where the western world is getting slowly ripped apart by the aggressive expansion of the vocal minorities of the far left and the far right. Both sides seem to feed on each other's rise to prominence, while us in the silent majority are slowly being bullied into polarized positions. I'm not fond of legalized parities, so I'm a sexist. I'm not fond of historical propaganda and posturing, so I'm a traitor. I want everyone to have the possibility of a legal abortion, so I'm a murderer. I don't think those abortions should still be OK in the eight month, so I'm a monster. I think companies should pay their goddamn income tax where they make their money, so I'm a communist. I don't think the government should support people who feed off the benefits and can't be bothered to look for a job, so I'm a corporate puppet. You get the idea.

What do you think?

[QuickTidal]

Jordan Peterson is a bit of an anomaly.

He kind of claims to stand dead centre and lambast both the Extreme Right and Extreme Left Ideologies with equal fervour. I don't think he does. I think he leans quite a bit Right, and simply doesn't realize that if you remove some of the more vitriolic labelling from the Right, they line up with him far more than anyone in Centre or Left would.

And where he started with his ideas, it seemed to be AT LEAST sound arguments to be made against a battery of notions being kicked around. This was a long while ago. He would at least present you with challenging notions to explore, even if you might not come around to entertain them yourself. This was mostly the fight to defeat the Extremism and Ideological bents to Far Right or Far Left, and find more of a balance.

But in the last few years he's proven to be basically on the side of our version of Breitbart (The Rebel Media; a reprehensible fuck of an organization), and supports ideas that are basically the Alt-Right he claims to fight against.

And when you get down to the nitty gritty of his arguments these days, they amount to weird things like not wanting to use preferred pronouns....which I have never understood. As long as I know someone wants to be referred to a certain way, I'll do so....it's not skin off my nose to do that.

But yeah, in the last 5 years or more he's proven to be an Alt-Right crazy masquerading as a Centrist who hates Marxism.

I should say this, in Toronto (and even his university, UofT), he is WELL in the minority. We have other crazies who might agree with him....but they are few and far between.

I have never agreed with him. He just seems to want to argue things down to the philosophical nitty gritty where you've lost the plot, and stands in the way of any progress. That's his bag.

[D'rek]

 Gothos, on 14 March 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

I have to ask our resident Canadians... sitting in front row seats, how do you feel about Jordan Peterson and the issue of pronouns?

[...]

Now, while I don't really have anything against adding gender identity into the pool of grounds on which discrimination can be recognized by law, I can't find in that bill exactly why would not calling a transsexual student or faculty member by a gender-neutral pronoun like 'zhe' or 'zher' be so controversial. Why has this risen to the rank of hate speech for so many?

Are we at that point where the rank and meaning of hate speech has become so diluted that a pronoun becomes a matter of defending human rights? Or is this, in fact, a matter that's just been blown out of proportion in certain circles, but
is generally absent from the day-to-day existance of the general population?

In this case, I definitely think it's closer to << a matter that's just been blown out of proportion in certain circles, but
is generally absent from the day-to-day existance of the general population >>. 99% of it all is happening only on university campuses - Peterson or someone like him organizes a speaking, a bunch of student organizes protest or try to disrupt it, other student groups counter-protest/disrupt, etc etc. But you won't see big rallies about any of this on Parliament Hill or anything like that.

Anyway, Peterson's main point in all this seems to be: "If one of my students asked me to refer to them by another pronoun, I would do so (because that's just polite and decent). But the government should not be able to force me to do so if I didn't want to; it should not be a crime for me to address someone by a pronoun/title they don't like."

Or at least, that's what Peterson says his stance is (was?). I don't know if he's ever actually had a trans/non-binary student/acquaintance who put his claim to the test.

Personally, I totally agree with that above principle/belief. I think we should just encompass trans/non-binary into the existing gender discrimination rules in Canada - maybe cleaning up the wording to include those where necessary - and don't see why they should need special extra rules that limit how everyone speaks... *especially* considering that the actual English (and French) vernacular for these situations has not at all settled into an established convention yet.


All that being said... Jordan Peterson is a crappy interviewer. I've watched a couple of his interviews, and he doesn't stick to his point, he engages too much in weird tangents or logician-style exploration of the topic, etc. He says he gets crazy hard-left unfounded accusations thrown at him... and based on some videos that does indeed seem to be the case - but then he goes from those into these weird explorations of his philosophy on whether there are inherent differences in men and women's corporate aptitudes or something and it has no bearing on compelled trans pronoun usage!

So yes, I completely agree with his main/original point, but I definitely don't identify with Peterson himself. I also definitely don't like the campus groups that storm into his or anyone else's speaking engagements to try and drown it out rather than engage in actual discourse. I think both sides look pretty bad.

But again, outside of university campuses I don't think this is anywhere near a big issue. It might get discussed a lot on reddit, but it's not getting brought up in political campaigns or townhalls. Biggest non-university circumstance I can think of is the Black Lives Matter - Toronto Pride Parade debacle of the last couple years, but I am skeptical as to how much the average (non-Toronto) citizen actually cared about that, either.

[Nevyn]

 LinearPhilosopher, on 13 March 2018 - 11:39 PM, said:

 D, on 13 March 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

On the plus side, non-LCBO pot stores.

id much rather a free market approach to cannabis rather than state sponsored incompetence so long as it's well regulated.

With cannabis I could care less about free market.

It is far easier to roll out and regulate this way, and being illegal, a lot of the existing places selling it are actually backed by organized crime.

I am fine with pot being legal, don't give a damn with it being cheap nor the government getting a cut.

This isn't booze or cigarettes where there are established brands with established production standards, and where every Metro and Sobeys wants to sell it right off. Legal cannabis will take some time to get to that level. In the meantime, I'd rather people buy from a gov outlet than a storefront backed by Hells Angels, and wonder if there's anything laced in there.

Clean out the illegal market, let the legal market hit maturity, ideally let the us get their heads out of their a****, and then we can talk about licensed and regulated private stores.

Just my .02

[QuickTidal]

 Nevyn, on 14 March 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

 LinearPhilosopher, on 13 March 2018 - 11:39 PM, said:

 D, on 13 March 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

On the plus side, non-LCBO pot stores.

id much rather a free market approach to cannabis rather than state sponsored incompetence so long as it's well regulated.

With cannabis I could care less about free market.

It is far easier to roll out and regulate this way, and being illegal, a lot of the existing places selling it are actually backed by organized crime.

I am fine with pot being legal, don't give a damn with it being cheap nor the government getting a cut.

This isn't booze or cigarettes where there are established brands with established production standards, and where every Metro and Sobeys wants to sell it right off. Legal cannabis will take some time to get to that level. In the meantime, I'd rather people buy from a gov outlet than a storefront backed by Hells Angels, and wonder if there's anything laced in there.

Clean out the illegal market, let the legal market hit maturity, ideally let the us get their heads out of their a****, and then we can talk about licensed and regulated private stores.

Just my .02

Boom. Science.

Agreed.

[D'rek]

Yeah! Clean out the illegal market and replace it with a small amount of legal LCBO subsidiary stores only in the major population centres! I will totally drive 7 hours to Sudbury just so I can shop at the legal store...

 Nevyn, on 14 March 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

I'd rather people buy from a gov outlet than a storefront backed by Hells Angels, and wonder if there's anything laced in there.

But how do you know that that non-government-produced chocolate milk you get from the grocery store isn't laced with something?!

There's absolutely a possible middle ground between government-supply-only and an unregulated open market. The government could regulate the supply and what is sold quite restrictively without banning private shops, so that there's better incentive for the store-front side of the business to actually meet the demand.

[Nevyn]

 D, on 14 March 2018 - 08:55 PM, said:

Yeah! Clean out the illegal market and replace it with a small amount of legal LCBO subsidiary stores only in the major population centres! I will totally drive 7 hours to Sudbury just so I can shop at the legal store...

 Nevyn, on 14 March 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

I'd rather people buy from a gov outlet than a storefront backed by Hells Angels, and wonder if there's anything laced in there.

But how do you know that that non-government-produced chocolate milk you get from the grocery store isn't laced with something?!

There's absolutely a possible middle ground between government-supply-only and an unregulated open market. The government could regulate the supply and what is sold quite restrictively without banning private shops, so that there's better incentive for the store-front side of the business to actually meet the demand.

You may have missed where they will have online orders and delivery.
And that the small amount of stores is just the initial rollout and will grow.

But I guess you can't order online and can't wait a year. And while there is legal marijuana tourism I guess it is too much to ask to drive for product.



Milk is a dumb comparison. The brands are recognized and production is inspected and heavily regulated. You don't have the same established brands for pot. If anyone can sell it, they can sell it from everywhere. The easiest way to control it when it is brand new and prevent a gong show it to control distribution. Over time as it is legal longer, and you have established and licensed sources, and black market sources are out of business, it is easier to them look into allowing other places to sell it.

There is so much gift horse looking in mouth going on here its incredible.

[LinearPhilosopher]

 QuickTidal, on 14 March 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

 Nevyn, on 14 March 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

 LinearPhilosopher, on 13 March 2018 - 11:39 PM, said:

 D, on 13 March 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

On the plus side, non-LCBO pot stores.

id much rather a free market approach to cannabis rather than state sponsored incompetence so long as it's well regulated.

With cannabis I could care less about free market.

It is far easier to roll out and regulate this way, and being illegal, a lot of the existing places selling it are actually backed by organized crime.

I am fine with pot being legal, don't give a damn with it being cheap nor the government getting a cut.

This isn't booze or cigarettes where there are established brands with established production standards, and where every Metro and Sobeys wants to sell it right off. Legal cannabis will take some time to get to that level. In the meantime, I'd rather people buy from a gov outlet than a storefront backed by Hells Angels, and wonder if there's anything laced in there.

Clean out the illegal market, let the legal market hit maturity, ideally let the us get their heads out of their a****, and then we can talk about licensed and regulated private stores.

Just my .02

Boom. Science.

Agreed.

You may not care much for Cannabis but as a consumer drug its a giant market waiting to be taped into. That's hundreds if not thousands of jobs from production, inspection, transportation,distribution,and ALL the overhead. That's without factoring the secondary markets which are already burgeoning (weed accessories etcs). There's also international prospect as there are quite a few countries where smoking pot is legal, yet growing it is illegal. I'd much rather we capitalise on this opportunity as gain as much of the international market share as we can. Because weed is legal Canada has a potential for being a leader in this industry and doing so in a LEGITIMATE fashion.

With strong revenues you can then taxe them appropriately to fund the necessary infrastructure to regulate and police the production, at which point we can shut down illegal producers one by one, while at the same time giving enterprising entrepreneurs the ability to be legitimate businessmen. The regulation of weed itself will be a job creator. I could easily see a few thousand jobs being created in various positions. Giving your work force more options isn't a bad thing.

If we wait for the government to pull it head out of its ass, we'll be waiting till the cows come home. It's not like the ontario goverments have a solid track record for making solid financial decisions (selling the 407 ETR, closing those coal plants etc etc etc) or being able to execute properly.

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 14 March 2018 - 10:51 PM