[Gintokian]

I think I got a couple thousand off from grants but I'm still paying off the majority of it. But that's a lot different than getting rid of them entirely and forgiving all outstanding loans. That's going to cost the government a pretty penny and as much as I would love not having to pay off the rest of my loans I'm not so sure it's a good idea.

There's a difference between never charging tuition fees and forgiving all loans. Especially if the government is used to receiving this money it could leave a big hole in their collective wallet. I think if anything they should slowly increase grants and decrease amounts to be paid back so as not to shock the system.



I really do like the idea of free dental as that can be expensive as hell. Not everyone has insurance and some dental issues can be extremely painful. A number of people I worked with back in my landscaping days hadn't been to the dentist in 10 years or more because they couldn't afford it. If they ever had any issues they would just take some percs and hope it went away.
Again, there's the issue of where the money would come from but I think this is a basic healthcare service that really should be covered.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Did you guys also miss how the NDP wants to de privatise Hydro one? Like im not sure thats going to work... That ships already sailed

Still at this rate its unsurprising. Promise the electors the world, and then when the weight of governance comes you realize you can't do any of it. The prov libs have had OVER A DECADE to do most of the stuff they have promised. Its unsurprising they are implementing pandering policies in an election year. Talk of free tuiton is great and all, but universitys do not run on the free (just look at any university's financials) Money for all those salaries have to come from somewhere...

In regards to student debt, the core of the problem is the majority of people going to post secondary because its the thing to do (School trains you for more school, not real life) as opposed to going to the school to learn skills that are translatable to a job. Its why many go for a 4-5 Bachelor before going to college because a college diploma costs less and is more likely to net you a job. (but still an additional 1-3 years)

So rather than having people going for schooling they can't afford, that won't lead to jobs that will enable them to pay back their loans, we stop indoctrinating kids into getting the High School expansion pack known as university and encourage them to make better life decisions. Point them towards a career. With a career they will have the means that if they want more schooling, they will be able to do it with a manageable level of debt. The upshot of this will be the value of a degree will go up due to the supply going down as in our country a Uni degree is worth less than the paper it's printed on.

I went to Uni myself, and I came out with a Bachelors in Accouting, a skill that is monetisable.

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 30 March 2018 - 02:53 AM

[Mentalist]

Yeah, career/vocational planning really needs to be a thing that's stressed hard. Let's be honest: 17 year old kids have no idea what they want to do in life. without a ton of serious guidance, they end up making a lot of poor choices.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Mentalist, on 30 March 2018 - 03:01 AM, said:

Yeah, career/vocational planning really needs to be a thing that's stressed hard. Let's be honest: 17 year old kids have no idea what they want to do in life. without a ton of serious guidance, they end up making a lot of poor choices.

Most people don't know what they want in life either but that's another story

[Gintokian]

I agree for the most part, I went into accounting myself and just finished my CPA courses and exam (which cost another small fortune). I started off doing 2 years of nanoscience (because i liked big bang theory and thought nanoscience sounded cool) and had no idea what the hell I wanted to do and as a result I had to take an extra year and pay for that.
I definitely agree that kids in high school should have better counselling to try and get an idea what they want to do.
I'm not sure what the best option would be to fix this cause 16 year olds are dumb and make major life choices based on television shoes, or maybe that's just me...

[LinearPhilosopher]

Gintokian, on 30 March 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

I agree for the most part, I went into accounting myself and just finished my CPA courses and exam (which cost another small fortune). I started off doing 2 years of nanoscience (because i liked big bang theory and thought nanoscience sounded cool) and had no idea what the hell I wanted to do and as a result I had to take an extra year and pay for that.
I definitely agree that kids in high school should have better counselling to try and get an idea what they want to do.
I'm not sure what the best option would be to fix this cause 16 year olds are dumb and make major life choices based on television shoes, or maybe that's just me...

What was your area of depth on the CFE?

[Nevyn]

LinearPhilosopher, on 30 March 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

Did you guys also miss how the NDP wants to de privatise Hydro one? Like im not sure thats going to work... That ships already sailed

Still at this rate its unsurprising. Promise the electors the world, and then when the weight of governance comes you realize you can't do any of it. The prov libs have had OVER A DECADE to do most of the stuff they have promised. Its unsurprising they are implementing pandering policies in an election year. Talk of free tuiton is great and all, but universitys do not run on the free (just look at any university's financials) Money for all those salaries have to come from somewhere...

In regards to student debt, the core of the problem is the majority of people going to post secondary because its the thing to do (School trains you for more school, not real life) as opposed to going to the school to learn skills that are translatable to a job. Its why many go for a 4-5 Bachelor before going to college because a college diploma costs less and is more likely to net you a job. (but still an additional 1-3 years)

So rather than having people going for schooling they can't afford, that won't lead to jobs that will enable them to pay back their loans, we stop indoctrinating kids into getting the High School expansion pack known as university and encourage them to make better life decisions. Point them towards a career. With a career they will have the means that if they want more schooling, they will be able to do it with a manageable level of debt. The upshot of this will be the value of a degree will go up due to the supply going down as in our country a Uni degree is worth less than the paper it's printed on.

I went to Uni myself, and I came out with a Bachelors in Accouting, a skill that is monetisable.

Exactly.

The university system was designed for academic pursuit, but starting around the tail end of gen x we got a giant nudge on how you needed university to get a good job. And over time as the numbers going ballooned jobs which did not need degrees started to ask for them because they could.

Universities have slowly adapted, catering some programs to all these students simply looking to fill resumes, but for most, a 4 year degree is an absurd value proposition for the actual qualifications it grants.

That's why I'm not wild about continuing to push kids to go, while then further subsidizing the cost. Universities are an industry. School are parents push kids at it, and from the other end the workforce create further pressure.

I'd like to see larger scale employers recruiting more right from high school. Find talented and driven kids, get them working, finding their passion, and then having the employer subsidize further education and training. I'd like to see the stigma on colleges continue to erode.

[Gintokian]

LinearPhilosopher, on 30 March 2018 - 04:11 AM, said:

What was your area of depth on the CFE?

My area of depth was Assurance, I'm not planning to go into auditing or anything at the moment but if I ever do want to go into public acccounting I had to take it. Kind of a shame because I would have liked to take the finance or PM courses but oh well.

There are a lot of good university programs that can lead to good jobs but at the same time there are a lot of useless programs that won't help you very much. Especially nowadays when everyone and their cat have bachelors degrees it doesn't mean much anymore so in order to stand our people need to get post grad education. I know lots of people that end up going to college after uni to get more practical learning and have an advantage. So now instead of leaving school with just student loans for 1 degree you have to pay for 2.

[Mentalist]

an average bachelors is a new high school diploma. All it tells a prospective employer is that you know how to do research and citations.

WHen I was in my third year of psych, they had a frank discussion with us where we were explicitly told if you want to work in the field, you need at least a masters.

I actually spent about a year after undergrad trying to find smth (while working in door-to-door fundraising), before going to law school.

Of course, back then tuition wasn't that crazy yet, so i could afford to get a useless degree.

[Gintokian]

Mentalist, on 30 March 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

an average bachelors is a new high school diploma. All it tells a prospective employer is that you know how to do research and citations.

I think that depends on what program you're in. Things like engineering and accounting degrees do show employers you know how to do required tasks, but I know what you mean.
That's the issue, that in order to get a job you need a bachelors and further education to stand out which costs a fortune and throwing massive student loans on kids is causing real issues.
With the increase in the housing market no young person will be able to buy a house and with all the baby boomers retiring there could be a market crash (especially with growing high risk loans). Not that students loans and housing markets are totally related but it could play a factor.

[Mentalist]

Gintokian, on 30 March 2018 - 07:26 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 30 March 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

an average bachelors is a new high school diploma. All it tells a prospective employer is that you know how to do research and citations.

I think that depends on what program you're in. Things like engineering and accounting degrees do show employers you know how to do required tasks, but I know what you mean.
That's the issue, that in order to get a job you need a bachelors and further education to stand out which costs a fortune and throwing massive student loans on kids is causing real issues.
With the increase in the housing market no young person will be able to buy a house and with all the baby boomers retiring there could be a market crash (especially with growing high risk loans). Not that students loans and housing markets are totally related but it could play a factor.

yeah, the problem is engineering and commerce degrees are such a miniscule portion of degrees.

In my 1st year res, we had about 45 people on our floor, and we were a perfect microcosm of our Uni:

1 CompSci
1 PhysEd
1 Nurse
2 ConEd (future teachers)
about 5 Commerce students
5 or 6 engineers
And the rest were ArtSci, split between psych, HealthSci (aspiring doctors) and PoliSci, with a few random History, English, etc. Majority of which are pretty useless as only undergrad degrees.

[Abyss]

LinearPhilosopher, on 30 March 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

Did you guys also miss how the NDP wants to de privatise Hydro one? Like im not sure thats going to work... That ships already sailed
...

Are we at the point where anything the NDP wants to do is worth taking seriously?
...because even in this Wynne/Ford lesser evil situation, I’m not seeing it.

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 31 March 2018 - 07:47 AM, said:

LinearPhilosopher, on 30 March 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

Did you guys also miss how the NDP wants to de privatise Hydro one? Like im not sure thats going to work... That ships already sailed
...

Are we at the point where anything the NDP wants to do is worth taking seriously?
...because even in this Wynne/Ford lesser evil situation, I’m not seeing it.

Well, in a contest of such unappealing sources it is worth taking seriously if for no other reason than evaluating how much permanent damage they could or would do in one term. If you arent burying the province in financial misery, electing this ndp would be a pretty strong message to the pcs about leadership selection and the liberals about craven, transparent political calculation as a mode of governance.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Nevyn, on 31 March 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

Abyss, on 31 March 2018 - 07:47 AM, said:

LinearPhilosopher, on 30 March 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

Did you guys also miss how the NDP wants to de privatise Hydro one? Like im not sure thats going to work... That ships already sailed
...

Are we at the point where anything the NDP wants to do is worth taking seriously?
...because even in this Wynne/Ford lesser evil situation, I’m not seeing it.

Well, in a contest of such unappealing sources it is worth taking seriously if for no other reason than evaluating how much permanent damage they could or would do in one term. If you arent burying the province in financial misery, electing this ndp would be a pretty strong message to the pcs about leadership selection and the liberals about craven, transparent political calculation as a mode of governance.

You're making some valid points sir.

[Abyss]

Except that I’m not convinced the NDP agenda wouldn’t create an even bigger fiscal mess.

[Gintokian]

Well that's kind of what we've been talking about here. It may be really appealing for young people who don't want to pay back student loans and work towards their savings, as well as people who don't have insurance plans that cover dental fully since it's so expensive.
A lot of voters are looking more at what can the government do for me and less at the financial issues it would cause the government.
I agree it could cause a huge fiscal mess but not everyone is looking at the big picture for ontario and just at themselves.

[Gintokian]

Damien Lewis tapped to play Rob Ford in new movie. Bizzare choice but ok should be interesting to watch him smoke a bunch of crack and eat a lot I guess.

[Malankazooie]

This Rednexican is looking forward to it.

[Gintokian]

Malankazooie, on 13 April 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

This Rednexican is looking forward to it.

This is really sad because it says that the video is not available in my country...

This post has been edited by Gintokian: 13 April 2018 - 10:46 PM

[Malankazooie]

Gintokian, on 13 April 2018 - 10:45 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 13 April 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

This Rednexican is looking forward to it.

This is really sad because it says that the video is not available in my country...

That's a bummer man. I think there might be a way around it. Maybe google has an answer?