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Canadian Politics American politics' smaller less interesting cousin!

#741 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 28 September 2021 - 06:42 PM

View PostAbyss, on 28 September 2021 - 06:15 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 27 September 2021 - 01:18 PM, said:

...I don't think any protestors ever got close to him after that again.


The security service agents' job switched from keeping them away from him to keeping him away from them.


YAS!
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#742 User is offline   LinearPhilosopher 

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Posted 28 September 2021 - 10:37 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 27 September 2021 - 12:41 PM, said:

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

try reading the comment again, O Toole doesn't appeal to the hard line conservatives.


Implying someone didn't read the comment is an interesting and point less jab. O'Toole very much appeals to the hard line cons even with his centrist talk....because guess what? They vote like a tribe. My whole extended family doesn't exactly like him, but are ALL hardline cons and all voted for him anyways...the only one who didn't is my batshit sister who I heard voted PPC becuase she's in a cult. O'Toole appeals to them anyways, and he purposely rides that line....I mean, this MFer praised Jason fucking Kenney's handling of the Pandemic DAYS before Alberta was revealed to be a predictable dumpster fire.

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

I'd also like to know where you're getting your information on O'toole


Would you?

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

As far as I can see he is


View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

A tory that does acknowledge climate change


Looks about the same as every other Con...pretty lies not even all that dressed up.

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

A frequent proven liar- heh... you can say this about any politcian, i think this needs more qualitative information.


I mean, a little more than normal....but you go off I guess.

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

Anti-abortion, yeah sadly with tories if they are too socially progressive they don't suceed as tories.


And you don't see a problem with this? A leader who buckles to party norms that not only go against progressiveness, but try to rewind time? Don't you live in Toronto?

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

Anti-reconciliation: I don't think we've ever had a PM that did a good job on this issue across the board. It's always been some progress and more of the same.


There's a difference between "not doing good" and THIS. Sorry, not sorry. Again, he tried to walk this back and even tried to take Trudeau to task on this topic during the campaign....nah bro, sorry you let the cat out of the bag, no one is buying it.


View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

Anti-lgbtq: This one's false hes actually voted in favor of LGBTQ policies even during the harper era.


He's full tilt withy washy, all the way through. I don't give a shit if he had enough COVER under Harper to vote a way to look good....his clear wishy washiness is disgusting. So no, it's not false if you read between the lines.


View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

Anti -vacc: This one i don't buy as well. He's repeatedly stated he is pro vaccine and wants people to get vaccinated.


Oh no? This is another one of the things that he peddled to the other side with deafening SILENCE until a few weeks before the election and he swung around and started talking them up. A little too late. If he'd not been forced, he would have said nothing.

And his gun views...yeah that's not a good and supportive position.

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 25 September 2021 - 04:34 PM, said:

Anyways if there's a positive in this election is the liberals are likely going to be moving JT out so that's a positive.


They won't. There's nothing inherently wrong with Trudeau. He's just a very milquetoast PM. All of the insane rhetoric from the other side is exactly that. Am I mad that he didn't institute election reform or stick to his original guns on the pipelines and climate? Yep. Which is why I didn't vote for him this time.

The positive from this election is the PPC splitting the CON vote.

Beyond ALL this...his two slogans were "Take Canada Back"....a Trumpian slogan (going back to my original point) and I ask..from who? Whatever "other" he invented to appeal to the Cons racist tone?...and then worse was "Secure The Future" which is dripping with well known racist undertones...again which of these two are you okay with?


Lovely contradiction there at the top. O Toole is many thing but he's definetly not the harper esque tory that appealed to the right wingers and that the right wingers actually like. Sounds more like people voting tories cause of lack of viable options. It's not dissimilar from voting liberal when you're a NDPer/green party voter if you're in a riding where they don't have a chance (like mine... every year i vote NDP knowing of the futility of the act).

In order top from above

His green plan is a joke, but there's a difference between being a climate change denier (complete denial of reality) and just someone who lacks the backbone to come to terms with the fact that Alberta's tar sands (where his base is) is incompatible with a green future. It's more of a political thing being he's a tory, less of a "Climate change is a hoax."

With respect to lying: ahhhh i wish the star wasn't behind a paywall, would love to read the article.Used to read em a fair bit about 20 years ago.

Abortion: Oh there is a problem with it for sure, but with tories my expectations are set low. Besides didn't we enshrine a woman's right to abortions in the constitution a little while ago? I'm aware there's still steps to be taken re: getting the abortion and all that paperwork, but it's something thats in our consitution now so I doubt Toole had he been elected would have done much to reverse the progress on this issue.

Anti- reconciliation: Ok fair point you shouldnt in good conscience being saying anything positive about residential schools

Anti lgbtq: Ty for the link. Good Article. Point conceded.

Anti vacc: Hes not pro-vaccine enough for my liking which is was the deal breaker for me. But not being pro-vaccine enough is not the same as being full on anti-vac. There's a bit of granulity here.

And his gun views? *shrug* I'll spare you the rants from my gun friends, but the long and short of it is canada already has extensive rules as to who can, and cannot buy firearms, and the level of hoops that exist are pretty good. The latest legislation for instance as worded bans airsoft guns for instance. Airsoft guns which are heavily used in the movie industry and as a sport and aren't exactly lethal.


Disagree about your assessment about trudeaus longevity. The fact he didn't win a majority and that when the election was going to happen the liberals were leading and barely made any gains, there's a sizeable part of the party that are going to be doubtful about his ability to bring in a majority or even hold onto his minority come the next election. Im hopeful they start looking at someone who can replace him and give them time to grow into the position before an election. Might get a leader actually capable of making hard decisions when they are warranted by extra-ordinary circumstances.

Nothing wrong with trudeau? How about that WE charity business... We already have something called the youth summer jobs programs which is a federally run program. Why do we need this random charity that the trudeaus have been engaged with in the past to head this new job initiative.

There's that whole SNC Lavalin thing which was disgusting, and don't get me started on "2015 is the last first past the post election".

Or let's just talk about having a vanity election in the middle of a once in a century pandemic.

Re: Slogans: can't say i care for either slogan. ButI also don't care for any political slogans. It's all rhetoric.
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#743 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 29 September 2021 - 07:48 AM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 28 September 2021 - 10:09 AM, said:

Yeah but just imagine how great the last decade would have been, comparatively, had Milliband won... We're definitely in one of the darker timelines here...


Oh for sure. I didn't really align with Milliband over much but I'll take a boring, beige PM over a blue and malicious one any day.
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#744 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 29 September 2021 - 03:44 PM

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 28 September 2021 - 10:37 PM, said:

...

Anti vacc: Hes not pro-vaccine enough for my liking which is was the deal breaker for me. But not being pro-vaccine enough is not the same as being full on anti-vac. There's a bit of granulity here.

And his gun views? *shrug* I'll spare you the rants from my gun friends, but the long and short of it is canada already has extensive rules as to who can, and cannot buy firearms, and the level of hoops that exist are pretty good. The latest legislation for instance as worded bans airsoft guns for instance. Airsoft guns which are heavily used in the movie industry and as a sport and aren't exactly lethal.
...


To my utter shock he participated in the party leaders 'Get the shot' ad... I am reasonably comfortable in saying no prior Tory leader would have ever had the guts to do that, tho reading the room in Alberta and Sask may have gotten him over the hump.

But his flip flop waffle slide on assault rifles was exactly what it looked like, and no. Just no. No. I don't care if you live in a distant isolated rural community known for its unique local population of rare vampire grizzly bears ridden by indigenous cannibals, you do not need a fncking AK-47 and that's what a chunk of his funding base were demanding.
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#745 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 29 September 2021 - 05:00 PM

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 28 September 2021 - 10:37 PM, said:

Abortion: Oh there is a problem with it for sure, but with tories my expectations are set low. Besides didn't we enshrine a woman's right to abortions in the constitution a little while ago? I'm aware there's still steps to be taken re: getting the abortion and all that paperwork, but it's something thats in our consitution now so I doubt Toole had he been elected would have done much to reverse the progress on this issue.


Abortion being legal and "right to an abortion" isn't necessarily quite the same thing, but yes abortions are super duper legal now and there's probably no chance whatsoever the Tories would try to overturn that law even if they got a majority. BUT, what you would potentially see from them is things like new laws put in place making it more of a hassle for abortion services to be provided - some U.S. states are like this where abortion is technically legal but there are tons and tons of onerous regulations like the building must meet 100 accessibility criteria, only overqualified surgeons who should be off doing heart transplants are allowed to do the abortion procedure, etc, and the end-result is that hardly any medical clinics can actually meet all these requirements so there's nowhere to actually go for a (legal) abortion.

That's the sort of bullshit strategies I'd expect the Tories to try to put into place if they had a majority. Not sure about O'Toole specifically, but IIRC weren't some of the Tories talking about "doctors' right to refuse" during their campaign? Definitely a roundabout tactic to try and reduce availability to abortion services.

And there are a lot of areas in Canada where the closest medical center with any sort of abortion services is half a day's drive away (hope you have a car!) (and often those only have mifegymso, so if you need a surgical abortion (which you probably do, because no one even knows they're pregnant in the first 8 weeks) instead it's even farther!).

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#746 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 29 September 2021 - 07:24 PM

View PostD, on 29 September 2021 - 05:00 PM, said:

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 28 September 2021 - 10:37 PM, said:

Abortion: Oh there is a problem with it for sure, but with tories my expectations are set low. Besides didn't we enshrine a woman's right to abortions in the constitution a little while ago? I'm aware there's still steps to be taken re: getting the abortion and all that paperwork, but it's something thats in our consitution now so I doubt Toole had he been elected would have done much to reverse the progress on this issue.


Abortion being legal and "right to an abortion" isn't necessarily quite the same thing, but yes abortions are super duper legal now and there's probably no chance whatsoever the Tories would try to overturn that law even if they got a majority. BUT, what you would potentially see from them is things like new laws put in place making it more of a hassle for abortion services to be provided - some U.S. states are like this where abortion is technically legal but there are tons and tons of onerous regulations like the building must meet 100 accessibility criteria, only overqualified surgeons who should be off doing heart transplants are allowed to do the abortion procedure, etc, and the end-result is that hardly any medical clinics can actually meet all these requirements so there's nowhere to actually go for a (legal) abortion.

That's the sort of bullshit strategies I'd expect the Tories to try to put into place if they had a majority. Not sure about O'Toole specifically, but IIRC weren't some of the Tories talking about "doctors' right to refuse" during their campaign? Definitely a roundabout tactic to try and reduce availability to abortion services.

And there are a lot of areas in Canada where the closest medical center with any sort of abortion services is half a day's drive away (hope you have a car!) (and often those only have mifegymso, so if you need a surgical abortion (which you probably do, because no one even knows they're pregnant in the first 8 weeks) instead it's even farther!).


Exactly: they probably can't make it illegal, but they can make it more difficult. Recall Harper insisting the debate was over and done with while individual MPs tried to get private members' bills passed recognizing the rights of the fetus at conception or requiring an independent medical assessment or other nonsense. Again and again, a Tory leader tries to appear moderate or even progressive while their supporters froth at the mouth in the background. I don't care if JT has a drawer full of WE Charity onesies - complete with feet and the little hatch in the back - that he sleeps in nightly, WE Charity was never trying to control women's bodies and give men assault rifles so they can keep up with their buddies down south.
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#747 User is offline   LinearPhilosopher 

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 08:56 PM

View PostAbyss, on 29 September 2021 - 07:24 PM, said:

View PostD, on 29 September 2021 - 05:00 PM, said:

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 28 September 2021 - 10:37 PM, said:

Abortion: Oh there is a problem with it for sure, but with tories my expectations are set low. Besides didn't we enshrine a woman's right to abortions in the constitution a little while ago? I'm aware there's still steps to be taken re: getting the abortion and all that paperwork, but it's something thats in our consitution now so I doubt Toole had he been elected would have done much to reverse the progress on this issue.


Abortion being legal and "right to an abortion" isn't necessarily quite the same thing, but yes abortions are super duper legal now and there's probably no chance whatsoever the Tories would try to overturn that law even if they got a majority. BUT, what you would potentially see from them is things like new laws put in place making it more of a hassle for abortion services to be provided - some U.S. states are like this where abortion is technically legal but there are tons and tons of onerous regulations like the building must meet 100 accessibility criteria, only overqualified surgeons who should be off doing heart transplants are allowed to do the abortion procedure, etc, and the end-result is that hardly any medical clinics can actually meet all these requirements so there's nowhere to actually go for a (legal) abortion.

That's the sort of bullshit strategies I'd expect the Tories to try to put into place if they had a majority. Not sure about O'Toole specifically, but IIRC weren't some of the Tories talking about "doctors' right to refuse" during their campaign? Definitely a roundabout tactic to try and reduce availability to abortion services.

And there are a lot of areas in Canada where the closest medical center with any sort of abortion services is half a day's drive away (hope you have a car!) (and often those only have mifegymso, so if you need a surgical abortion (which you probably do, because no one even knows they're pregnant in the first 8 weeks) instead it's even farther!).


Exactly: they probably can't make it illegal, but they can make it more difficult. Recall Harper insisting the debate was over and done with while individual MPs tried to get private members' bills passed recognizing the rights of the fetus at conception or requiring an independent medical assessment or other nonsense. Again and again, a Tory leader tries to appear moderate or even progressive while their supporters froth at the mouth in the background. I don't care if JT has a drawer full of WE Charity onesies - complete with feet and the little hatch in the back - that he sleeps in nightly, WE Charity was never trying to control women's bodies and give men assault rifles so they can keep up with their buddies down south.



Fair points.

View PostAbyss, on 29 September 2021 - 03:44 PM, said:

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 28 September 2021 - 10:37 PM, said:

...

Anti vacc: Hes not pro-vaccine enough for my liking which is was the deal breaker for me. But not being pro-vaccine enough is not the same as being full on anti-vac. There's a bit of granulity here.

And his gun views? *shrug* I'll spare you the rants from my gun friends, but the long and short of it is canada already has extensive rules as to who can, and cannot buy firearms, and the level of hoops that exist are pretty good. The latest legislation for instance as worded bans airsoft guns for instance. Airsoft guns which are heavily used in the movie industry and as a sport and aren't exactly lethal.
...


To my utter shock he participated in the party leaders 'Get the shot' ad... I am reasonably comfortable in saying no prior Tory leader would have ever had the guts to do that, tho reading the room in Alberta and Sask may have gotten him over the hump.

But his flip flop waffle slide on assault rifles was exactly what it looked like, and no. Just no. No. I don't care if you live in a distant isolated rural community known for its unique local population of rare vampire grizzly bears ridden by indigenous cannibals, you do not need a fncking AK-47 and that's what a chunk of his funding base were demanding.


You're right in that if you live in the middle of nowhere you don't need an AK-47. You're going to want a hunting rifle cause if you need to kill a bear that made it's way into your kitchen (story from a friend of mine) you're going to want a usable carcass.

Automatic weapons like Ak-47, are essentially for "hobbyists and collectors" and are basically dangerous toys. Should they be accessible to civilians? Maybe? I don't have particularly strong feelings on it, my issues with gun control though is the latest liberal bill which in typical shoot from the hip legislation, goes too far and affects things that aren't even firearms.

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 08 October 2021 - 09:05 PM

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#748 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 10:49 PM

No.

The answer is fucking no.

No hobbyist or collector needs a fucking assault rifle.
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#749 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 12:53 AM

View PostQuickTidal, on 08 October 2021 - 10:49 PM, said:

No.

The answer is fucking no.

No hobbyist or collector needs a fucking assault rifle.


Agreed. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone besides soldiers or tactical police to have an automatic weapon of any description, let alone an assault rifle.
Just have a very long, hard rethink on any shit that you belive justifies it. Because it is wrong.

Hell, even semiautomatics need to be restricted AF. Why would a civilian need to put as many rounds out as fast as they can pull the trigger? I'm trying to come up with logically and morally acceptable reasons and I'm really struggling. Professional hunters maybe?

I have spoken. :p

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 09 October 2021 - 12:54 AM

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#750 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 02:29 AM

Okay that Shawnigan Handshake story is pretty funny.
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#751 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 03:02 AM

View PostTsundoku, on 09 October 2021 - 12:53 AM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 08 October 2021 - 10:49 PM, said:

No.

The answer is fucking no.

No hobbyist or collector needs a fucking assault rifle.


Agreed. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone besides soldiers or tactical police to have an automatic weapon of any description, let alone an assault rifle.
Just have a very long, hard rethink on any shit that you belive justifies it. Because it is wrong.

Hell, even semiautomatics need to be restricted AF. Why would a civilian need to put as many rounds out as fast as they can pull the trigger? I'm trying to come up with logically and morally acceptable reasons and I'm really struggling. Professional hunters maybe?

I have spoken. :p


Thirded. Fuck no.
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#752 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 12:52 PM

But what if their peepee is like, really small, they need those AKs
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#753 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 03:46 PM

View PostMacros, on 09 October 2021 - 12:52 PM, said:

But what if their peepee is like, really small, they need those AKs

Well I've got a small peepee and never needed a gun!
Haha yeah totally...
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#754 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 02:07 AM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 09 October 2021 - 03:46 PM, said:

View PostMacros, on 09 October 2021 - 12:52 PM, said:

But what if their peepee is like, really small, they need those AKs

Well I've got a small peepee and never needed a gun!
Haha yeah totally...


Show us your billy club/night stick ... ;)

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 10 October 2021 - 02:08 AM

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#755 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 08:35 PM

I'm hearing a lot about this dumb "Freedom Convoy" in Canada at the moment which is a thinly disguised right wing/white supremacist/Christian nationalist event acting under the "we're about freedom and against masks" banner or something.

I mean I know there are morons in every country but I thought Canada was generally a bit more sedate than the US.
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#756 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 12:36 AM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 29 January 2022 - 08:35 PM, said:

I'm hearing a lot about this dumb "Freedom Convoy" in Canada at the moment which is a thinly disguised right wing/white supremacist/Christian nationalist event acting under the "we're about freedom and against masks" banner or something.

I mean I know there are morons in every country but I thought Canada was generally a bit more sedate than the US.


Yeah, they are super clowns.
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#757 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 05:40 AM

Am in Ottawa currently. Can confirm.
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#758 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 09:09 AM

Even heard Confederate flags were flying at points. I'm not sure if that's about Canadian mandates and local politics and truckers rights...
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#759 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 31 January 2022 - 05:33 AM

To be fair, truck drivers crossing into the States on a regular basis have near ZERO human contact. The border crossings is automated, and so are most big cargo terminals (source: my father who's been driving to NYC/New Jersey harbors 3 times a week for over a decade). A trucker's highest chance of coming into proximity with someone would be at a truck stop bathroom.

That being said, it's a pretty pointless gesture. And if people are vaccine hesitant, well, good news, we finally got J&J shots, so go sign up for a traditional vaccine instead of wasting time and money.
Overall level of anti-vax/restrictions sentiment is nowhere near high enough to accomplish anything meaningful.
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View PostJump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#760 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 31 January 2022 - 01:23 PM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 29 January 2022 - 08:35 PM, said:

I'm hearing a lot about this dumb "Freedom Convoy" in Canada at the moment which is a thinly disguised right wing/white supremacist/Christian nationalist event acting under the "we're about freedom and against masks" banner or something.

I mean I know there are morons in every country but I thought Canada was generally a bit more sedate than the US.


Now that I'm at a computer instead go my tablet, I wanted to contribute more to my reply.

Here's a few factoids that these truckers and idiots are ignoring while they try to make some kind of point (a point which just seems to boil down to petulantly "I don't want to get a vaccine"):

- The US Department of Homeland Security has a border vaccination mandate, so EVEN if the Canadian govt allowed them, the US would block them, so the overall point is moot.
- They claim to want to protest the govt mandates (PLURAL)...the only mandate they could be protesting in Ottawa at Parliament is the border crossing mandate....ANY other mandates would be the ones that Doug Ford put out provincially as the province handles Health Care mandates...but that would war with the anti-Trudeau parade who want to blame the liberals for their issues.
- They parked cars on and danced on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier...which is a level of disrespect I can't exactly explain.
- and if that was not disrespectful enough, they decorated the Terry Fox statue with anti-vaccine crap. A man who died of cancer, who ran and was famous for cancer research...who would have been VERY pro-science and pro-vaccine...I can't even explain this one.
- radio chatter that's been recorded proves that some of these idiots harassed a homeless soup kitchen into giving them food.
- radio chatter also has many fo them defecating on the street because there's not enough open bathrooms.
- They could not "storm" the Parliament bldgs, so they stormed the Rideau Centre Mall, harassed many stores by not wearing masks and starting fights about it...so bad that the mall had to close early.
- They claimed there was a lot of people...we're talking MAYBE 4-5k total...in a province of 14.8million people.....there were more people in Dundas Square in TO when then Raps won there series, or at the SARS concert in 2003...there are more people who head up to their cottages on a long weekend FFS.
- There are Confederate flags, don't tread on me flags, trump flags, and nazi flags....all attached to White Supremacy in one regard or another.
- Parliament is not sitting, and has been largely working from home for the Pandemic, so all they've accomplished is gridlocking downtownOttawa and annoying the people who live there with constant horns for a whole weekend....
- The two major organizers of this whole thing are BOTH well known and connected white nationalists...AND both are tied to previous gofundme grifts of the alt-right...
- These are the very people who would bemoan protests for indigenous rights and water, or call BLM terrorists, or block hospitals (apparently one trucker refused to move his truck out of the way so an ambulance could get a heart patient to the heart clinic.....)....all trying to pretend they are fighting for rights and freedoms.

The delusion is high....there's a bunch of them on TikTok saying that these few thousand are proof that THEY have the majority and this is the new reality...

So yeah, these people will accomplish nothing but piss off Ottawa citizens, and waste police budgets, and make for a ridiculous amount of cleanup.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 31 January 2022 - 01:28 PM

"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora
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