[QuickTidal]

In news that should surprise absolutely no one….Last King Of Osten Ard has been split into 4 volumes instead of 3.

Tad always does this so I actually expected it.

3rd book out this July.

[QuickTidal]

My re-read of EMPIRE OF GRASS (in prep for INTO THE NARROWDARK) is going swimmingly. And since I never commented on it here while I read it the first time, I'll note a few things here.

This book 100% solidifies that this series is better than MS&T and possibly the finest thing Tad has written.

The plot strands from WITCHWOOD stretch out here and breathe, and the characters come even more alive than they did. The beginning of learning more about the Garden and the Gardenborn is completely engrossing, and now that we know that:

Spoiler

Josua and Vorzheva's kids are separated (for many years and in completely different places; Derra is actually Tzoja (mortal from Witchwood who is concubine to a somewhat benevolent Norn) and gets involved with the Hidden, and Deornoth is a Clan leader in Thrithings) it makes those two characters even more compelling and adds a new dimension to Nezeru as Tzoja/Derra's kid. Remenevring that these are the "prophecy twins" as per Aditu when they were born in the end of MS&T, so they are going to be a part of something big.

I love all the characters plot lines really. There's no slog to this book at all. It's all cream and almost punishingly entertaining.

Oh and knowing that I'm about to see another siege if Naglimund, but this one will succeed....excellent.

I'll chime in more as I go. I'm only about 200 pages in so far. I'm taking my time and if I can push it to two weeks I will line up BotW (which I've never read) as a stormking/Hakatri refresher as my next cottage read before heading into INTO THE NARROWDARK.

[T77]

Just downloaded ItN audiobook from my library last night. Thought about a reread of the first two books, but decided against it. I want to dive in, but I want to finish my current read first.

You will love BotW! It was my favorite book last year.

[QuickTidal]

T77, on 13 July 2022 - 01:10 PM, said:

Just downloaded ItN audiobook from my library last night. Thought about a reread of the first two books, but decided against it. I want to dive in, but I want to finish my current read first.

Yeah, and you'll be great too since Tad puts those helpful "The story so far" for each previous book at the beginning!

T77, on 13 July 2022 - 01:10 PM, said:

You will love BotW! It was my favorite book last year.

Oh good to know! I'm excited to read it.

[Tiste Simeon]

I'd quite like to read Otherland again. I read it a few times back when I was around 20 years old or so and really enjoyed them.

However my tastes and what I look for in a book have changed a lot since then and I wonder if I'd still like them. Especially as a few years ago I read the Memory Sorrow Thorn series and more or less hated most of it.

[T77]

QuickTidal, on 13 July 2022 - 01:21 PM, said:

T77, on 13 July 2022 - 01:10 PM, said:

Just downloaded ItN audiobook from my library last night. Thought about a reread of the first two books, but decided against it. I want to dive in, but I want to finish my current read first.

Yeah, and you'll be great too since Tad puts those helpful "The story so far" for each previous book at the beginning!

T77, on 13 July 2022 - 01:10 PM, said:

One of the reasons why I didn't do a reread.

[QuickTidal]

THREADSURRECTION!

Spoilers for up to INTO THE NARROWDARK

QuickTidal, on 14 July 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

Nearing the last 100 pages of WITCHWOOD, and it continues to be really enthralling. The table setting in this book for the whole trilogy is IMMENSE. You can feel him setting upon LOT of plot points to cover and unfold throughout the series.

And I think one I guessed at early on:

Spoiler

Morgan and Tanahaya becoming an eventual mortal and sithi relationship.

may be coming true.

NOPE. You were wrongo wrongo QT. After EMPIRE OF GRASS and especially the first 200 pages of INTO THE NARROWDARK it's clear that said relationship is not

Spoiler

Sithi Envoy/scholar Tanahaya and Morgan....as Tanahaya is not only in a relationship with ya boy Jiriki, but is pregnant with his child. So I'm thinking her relationship with Morgan is more going to be more like a "badass Aunt".

And the Morgan love interest is instead very likely to be....Nezeru. Now....we should be clear, Nezeru being the love child of the union between a Norn (Viyeki) and Tzoja/Derra (who was the daughter of Josua and Vorzheva) means that Nezeru and Morgan are DISTANTLY related being that his grandmother (Miriamele) and her grandfather (Josua) were Niece and Uncle respectively....1st cousin once removed I think? So there is blood shared, but it's watered down enough for this medieval world I think.

Anyways, that's what I'm calling right now...but I could still be wrong. In my defence of the Morgan / Tanahaya thing, Tad hid her relationship with Jiriki till about the 3/4 point way of EMPIRE OF GRASS, so I can't be blamed...and her being pregnant isn't revealed till her opening chapter of INTO THE NARROWDARK.

QuickTidal, on 13 July 2022 - 12:36 PM, said:

My re-read of EMPIRE OF GRASS (in prep for INTO THE NARROWDARK) is going swimmingly. And since I never commented on it here while I read it the first time, I'll note a few things here.

This book 100% solidifies that this series is better than MS&T and possibly the finest thing Tad has written.

The plot strands from WITCHWOOD stretch out here and breathe, and the characters come even more alive than they did. The beginning of learning more about the Garden and the Gardenborn is completely engrossing, and now that we know that:

I will line up BotW (which I've never read) as a stormking/Hakatri refresher as my next cottage read before heading into INTO THE NARROWDARK.

So life got away from me and I never read INTO THE NARROWDARK till now, and by the time I had a copy of it (this past summer) I already knew that THE NAVIGATORS CHILDREN was coming out near Christmas this year so I waited.


Now I'm 300 pages into NARROWDARK and it's exquisite. Everytime I think I'm going to be bored by a chapter or POV something crazy happens and I absolutely am not. It's been a wonderfully riveting book thus far.

[QuickTidal]

I'm rounding the last like 400pgs of INTO THE NARROWDARK so I can finally read THE NAVIGATORS CHILDREN (which I got for Xmas last year)...and this thread made me realize that I never updated when I paused ITN midway to read the prequel novella BROTHERS OF THE WIND...so here's a quick take...

Spoiler

Though short, BotW is one of the best books Tad has written. It's tight, simple, and yet evocative and endlessly emotional. It gives such a deeper depth to not only Hakatri (who we knew next to nothing about), but more interestingly Ineluki back when he was a decent, if brash and impetuous Sithi youth. Little aspects of it like seeing Likimeya (Pre-Dragon blood injury of her father) as a precocious kid are juxtaposed against the latter one who doesn't recognize him, and thinks that the burned Hakatri is not her father...fucking heartbreaking. Watching Ineluki develop his hatred of mortals is fascinating, because it is well known that dragons of ANY kind instill a fear in all beings, and to humans especially....so the confluence of events where their mortal leader's horse falls into a hole and throws him off causing them to (in the face of said rampaging dragon) abandon the plan, and run from the scene, which in turn causes Hakatri to take up the huge tree spear himself to impale the thing, causing his injuries that haunt him for the rest of the book (and his life)...and Ineluki has everything he needs to hate humanity/mortals, right? Perhaps...but the other layer (that even Ineluki is aware of) is that all of this occurs because Ineluki's rash decision to swear an oath to the humans that he will take out this Worm for them, so one might say that if he hadn't done that, then none of them would have been in that situation to begin with. So it's super interesting to see that from there all it takes is a push and nudge from the (at the time still friendly) Hideka'ya to send the Storm King on the path he ends up on towards the events of MS&T, and his eventual demise.

I also LOVE the pov character for the story being a Tinukeda'ya as it adds yet another political layer to things, since Pamon Kes is very much an outsider with insider info. Directly speaking with the Sa'onsera (Who was still Amerasu Shipborn at that time) multiple times showed you how important he was...while still showing you that many Sithi just consider him a slave race. You can feel his eventual post-script life with Lady Sholi at Ravensperch coming, but it's still nice when it's confirmed.

The last thing I'll comment on is the final scene on the ship before Kes is sept overboard by fate or storm (another heartbreaking scene)...makes me wonder about the Hakatri interludes in INTO THE NARROWDARK, which seems to show him as awake in the armour (Ruyan's Navigator armour) and wondering why....but also the scene from Sesuadr'a (the Stone of farewell) from BotW seems to imply that there's a reason Hakatri will be needed and it FEELS benevolent there....but in the interludes in ITN it feels more nefarious? I could be wrong...but the last time we see Hakatri is sailing on that ship with one of the finest Captains to ever sail a ship, looking to find the West and perhaps a cure for his maladies....but in ITN he's been dead and we just know he's ben brought back to life by magic....so what's in between?! I'm so curious.

There's that heartbreaking scene near the end of BotW where child Likimeya asks Kes why he's talking to not her father....like she honestly doesn't recognize him through the burns or his actions/feelings, but I think it goes deeper...

so I also want this: Since we know that as of TWC adult Likimeya is severely injured, incapacitated, and in a state of suspended animation...that if we get Hakatri properly showing up again, I want Likimeya to see him when she's awake and look into his eyes and say something like "Oh, there you are father." It would fucking break me, but I want it. I also hope we get Kes since even though Tinukeda'ya are not AS long lived as Sithi or Norns, they are still longer lived than mortals...

Anyways, Like I said, I'm around 300 pages from the end of INTO THE NARROWDARK, and I still love this book...and not just cause Tanahaya tames and rides a MASSIVE red buck she named Quarrel...but also that...Tad's writing has gotten so incredible filled with nuance and emotion.

Anyone who abandoned Osten Ard after MS&T is missing out. Williams really came into his own in the last 15 years or so.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 February 2026 - 01:21 PM

[T77]

QuickTidal, on 23 February 2026 - 01:15 PM, said:

I'm rounding the last like 400pgs of INTO THE NARROWDARK so I can finally read THE NAVIGATORS CHILDREN (which I got for Xmas last year)...and this thread made me realize that I never updated when I paused ITN midway to read the prequel novella BROTHERS OF THE WIND...so here's a quick take...

Spoiler

Though short, BotW is one of the best books Tad has written. It's tight, simple, and yet evocative and endlessly emotional. It gives such a deeper depth to not only Hakatri (who we knew next to nothing about), but more interestingly Ineluki back when he was a decent, if brash and impetuous Sithi youth. Little aspects of it like seeing Likimeya (Pre-Dragon blood injury of her father) as a precocious kid are juxtaposed against the latter one who doesn't recognize him, and thinks that the burned Hakatri is not her father...fucking heartbreaking. Watching Ineluki develop his hatred of mortals is fascinating, because it is well known that dragons of ANY kind instill a fear in all beings, and to humans especially....so the confluence of events where their mortal leader's horse falls into a hole and throws him off causing them to (in the face of said rampaging dragon) abandon the plan, and run from the scene, which in turn causes Hakatri to take up the huge tree spear himself to impale the thing, causing his injuries that haunt him for the rest of the book (and his life)...and Ineluki has everything he needs to hate humanity/mortals, right? Perhaps...but the other layer (that even Ineluki is aware of) is that all of this occurs because Ineluki's rash decision to swear an oath to the humans that he will take out this Worm for them, so one might say that if he hadn't done that, then none of them would have been in that situation to begin with. So it's super interesting to see that from there all it takes is a push and nudge from the (at the time still friendly) Hideka'ya to send the Storm King on the path he ends up on towards the events of MS&T, and his eventual demise.

I also LOVE the pov character for the story being a Tinukeda'ya as it adds yet another political layer to things, since Pamon Kes is very much an outsider with insider info. Directly speaking with the Sa'onsera (Who was still Amerasu Shipborn at that time) multiple times showed you how important he was...while still showing you that many Sithi just consider him a slave race. You can feel his eventual post-script life with Lady Sholi at Ravensperch coming, but it's still nice when it's confirmed.

The last thing I'll comment on is the final scene on the ship before Kes is sept overboard by fate or storm (another heartbreaking scene)...makes me wonder about the Hakatri interludes in INTO THE NARROWDARK, which seems to show him as awake in the armour (Ruyan's Navigator armour) and wondering why....but also the scene from Sesuadr'a (the Stone of farewell) from BotW seems to imply that there's a reason Hakatri will be needed and it FEELS benevolent there....but in the interludes in ITN it feels more nefarious? I could be wrong...but the last time we see Hakatri is sailing on that ship with one of the finest Captains to ever sail a ship, looking to find the West and perhaps a cure for his maladies....but in ITN he's been dead and we just know he's ben brought back to life by magic....so what's in between?! I'm so curious.

There's that heartbreaking scene near the end of BotW where child Likimeya asks Kes why he's talking to not her father....like she honestly doesn't recognize him through the burns or his actions/feelings, but I think it goes deeper...

so I also want this: Since we know that as of TWC adult Likimeya is severely injured, incapacitated, and in a state of suspended animation...that if we get Hakatri properly showing up again, I want Likimeya to see him when she's awake and look into his eyes and say something like "Oh, there you are father." It would fucking break me, but I want it. I also hope we get Kes since even though Tinukeda'ya are not AS long lived as Sithi or Norns, they are still longer lived than mortals...

Anyways, Like I said, I'm around 300 pages from the end of INTO THE NARROWDARK, and I still love this book...and not just cause Tanahaya tames and rides a MASSIVE red buck she named Quarrel...but also that...Tad's writing has gotten so incredible filled with nuance and emotion.

Anyone who abandoned Osten Ard after MS&T is missing out. Williams really came into his own in the last 15 years or so.

Thanks for reminding me. I still haven't read the latest book. Got it queued up now. If you haven't read Brothers of the Wind, do so, it's excellent!

[QuickTidal]

T77, on 23 February 2026 - 02:49 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 23 February 2026 - 01:15 PM, said:

I'm rounding the last like 400pgs of INTO THE NARROWDARK so I can finally read THE NAVIGATORS CHILDREN (which I got for Xmas last year)...and this thread made me realize that I never updated when I paused ITN midway to read the prequel novella BROTHERS OF THE WIND...so here's a quick take...

Spoiler

Though short, BotW is one of the best books Tad has written. It's tight, simple, and yet evocative and endlessly emotional. It gives such a deeper depth to not only Hakatri (who we knew next to nothing about), but more interestingly Ineluki back when he was a decent, if brash and impetuous Sithi youth. Little aspects of it like seeing Likimeya (Pre-Dragon blood injury of her father) as a precocious kid are juxtaposed against the latter one who doesn't recognize him, and thinks that the burned Hakatri is not her father...fucking heartbreaking. Watching Ineluki develop his hatred of mortals is fascinating, because it is well known that dragons of ANY kind instill a fear in all beings, and to humans especially....so the confluence of events where their mortal leader's horse falls into a hole and throws him off causing them to (in the face of said rampaging dragon) abandon the plan, and run from the scene, which in turn causes Hakatri to take up the huge tree spear himself to impale the thing, causing his injuries that haunt him for the rest of the book (and his life)...and Ineluki has everything he needs to hate humanity/mortals, right? Perhaps...but the other layer (that even Ineluki is aware of) is that all of this occurs because Ineluki's rash decision to swear an oath to the humans that he will take out this Worm for them, so one might say that if he hadn't done that, then none of them would have been in that situation to begin with. So it's super interesting to see that from there all it takes is a push and nudge from the (at the time still friendly) Hideka'ya to send the Storm King on the path he ends up on towards the events of MS&T, and his eventual demise.

I also LOVE the pov character for the story being a Tinukeda'ya as it adds yet another political layer to things, since Pamon Kes is very much an outsider with insider info. Directly speaking with the Sa'onsera (Who was still Amerasu Shipborn at that time) multiple times showed you how important he was...while still showing you that many Sithi just consider him a slave race. You can feel his eventual post-script life with Lady Sholi at Ravensperch coming, but it's still nice when it's confirmed.

The last thing I'll comment on is the final scene on the ship before Kes is sept overboard by fate or storm (another heartbreaking scene)...makes me wonder about the Hakatri interludes in INTO THE NARROWDARK, which seems to show him as awake in the armour (Ruyan's Navigator armour) and wondering why....but also the scene from Sesuadr'a (the Stone of farewell) from BotW seems to imply that there's a reason Hakatri will be needed and it FEELS benevolent there....but in the interludes in ITN it feels more nefarious? I could be wrong...but the last time we see Hakatri is sailing on that ship with one of the finest Captains to ever sail a ship, looking to find the West and perhaps a cure for his maladies....but in ITN he's been dead and we just know he's ben brought back to life by magic....so what's in between?! I'm so curious.

There's that heartbreaking scene near the end of BotW where child Likimeya asks Kes why he's talking to not her father....like she honestly doesn't recognize him through the burns or his actions/feelings, but I think it goes deeper...

so I also want this: Since we know that as of TWC adult Likimeya is severely injured, incapacitated, and in a state of suspended animation...that if we get Hakatri properly showing up again, I want Likimeya to see him when she's awake and look into his eyes and say something like "Oh, there you are father." It would fucking break me, but I want it. I also hope we get Kes since even though Tinukeda'ya are not AS long lived as Sithi or Norns, they are still longer lived than mortals...

Anyways, Like I said, I'm around 300 pages from the end of INTO THE NARROWDARK, and I still love this book...and not just cause Tanahaya tames and rides a MASSIVE red buck she named Quarrel...but also that...Tad's writing has gotten so incredible filled with nuance and emotion.

Anyone who abandoned Osten Ard after MS&T is missing out. Williams really came into his own in the last 15 years or so.

Thanks for reminding me. I still haven't read the latest book. Got it queued up now. If you haven't read Brothers of the Wind, do so, it's excellent!

Yeah, I finished BotW last week, and it was indeed excellent. One of my fave Tad books ever. Informative AND heartbreaking in equal measure.

[T77]

QuickTidal, on 23 February 2026 - 03:00 PM, said:

T77, on 23 February 2026 - 02:49 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 23 February 2026 - 01:15 PM, said:

I'm rounding the last like 400pgs of INTO THE NARROWDARK so I can finally read THE NAVIGATORS CHILDREN (which I got for Xmas last year)...and this thread made me realize that I never updated when I paused ITN midway to read the prequel novella BROTHERS OF THE WIND...so here's a quick take...

Spoiler

Though short, BotW is one of the best books Tad has written. It's tight, simple, and yet evocative and endlessly emotional. It gives such a deeper depth to not only Hakatri (who we knew next to nothing about), but more interestingly Ineluki back when he was a decent, if brash and impetuous Sithi youth. Little aspects of it like seeing Likimeya (Pre-Dragon blood injury of her father) as a precocious kid are juxtaposed against the latter one who doesn't recognize him, and thinks that the burned Hakatri is not her father...fucking heartbreaking. Watching Ineluki develop his hatred of mortals is fascinating, because it is well known that dragons of ANY kind instill a fear in all beings, and to humans especially....so the confluence of events where their mortal leader's horse falls into a hole and throws him off causing them to (in the face of said rampaging dragon) abandon the plan, and run from the scene, which in turn causes Hakatri to take up the huge tree spear himself to impale the thing, causing his injuries that haunt him for the rest of the book (and his life)...and Ineluki has everything he needs to hate humanity/mortals, right? Perhaps...but the other layer (that even Ineluki is aware of) is that all of this occurs because Ineluki's rash decision to swear an oath to the humans that he will take out this Worm for them, so one might say that if he hadn't done that, then none of them would have been in that situation to begin with. So it's super interesting to see that from there all it takes is a push and nudge from the (at the time still friendly) Hideka'ya to send the Storm King on the path he ends up on towards the events of MS&T, and his eventual demise.

I also LOVE the pov character for the story being a Tinukeda'ya as it adds yet another political layer to things, since Pamon Kes is very much an outsider with insider info. Directly speaking with the Sa'onsera (Who was still Amerasu Shipborn at that time) multiple times showed you how important he was...while still showing you that many Sithi just consider him a slave race. You can feel his eventual post-script life with Lady Sholi at Ravensperch coming, but it's still nice when it's confirmed.

The last thing I'll comment on is the final scene on the ship before Kes is sept overboard by fate or storm (another heartbreaking scene)...makes me wonder about the Hakatri interludes in INTO THE NARROWDARK, which seems to show him as awake in the armour (Ruyan's Navigator armour) and wondering why....but also the scene from Sesuadr'a (the Stone of farewell) from BotW seems to imply that there's a reason Hakatri will be needed and it FEELS benevolent there....but in the interludes in ITN it feels more nefarious? I could be wrong...but the last time we see Hakatri is sailing on that ship with one of the finest Captains to ever sail a ship, looking to find the West and perhaps a cure for his maladies....but in ITN he's been dead and we just know he's ben brought back to life by magic....so what's in between?! I'm so curious.

There's that heartbreaking scene near the end of BotW where child Likimeya asks Kes why he's talking to not her father....like she honestly doesn't recognize him through the burns or his actions/feelings, but I think it goes deeper...

so I also want this: Since we know that as of TWC adult Likimeya is severely injured, incapacitated, and in a state of suspended animation...that if we get Hakatri properly showing up again, I want Likimeya to see him when she's awake and look into his eyes and say something like "Oh, there you are father." It would fucking break me, but I want it. I also hope we get Kes since even though Tinukeda'ya are not AS long lived as Sithi or Norns, they are still longer lived than mortals...

Anyways, Like I said, I'm around 300 pages from the end of INTO THE NARROWDARK, and I still love this book...and not just cause Tanahaya tames and rides a MASSIVE red buck she named Quarrel...but also that...Tad's writing has gotten so incredible filled with nuance and emotion.

Anyone who abandoned Osten Ard after MS&T is missing out. Williams really came into his own in the last 15 years or so.

Thanks for reminding me. I still haven't read the latest book. Got it queued up now. If you haven't read Brothers of the Wind, do so, it's excellent!

Yeah, I finished BotW last week, and it was indeed excellent. One of my fave Tad books ever. Informative AND heartbreaking in equal measure.

I agree, one of my favorite books of his too. He's one of my favorite authors. Been thinking of a reread of Otherland.

[QuickTidal]

Yeah , he's one of mine too. Just rich and rewarding storytelling.

Do you know how much input he has on the audiobooks narration? Andrew Wincott is fine, but his accents for the Sithi/Norns - whispery fake slavic? I have no idea what he's attempting...it's so distracting when Nezeru and Morgan have a scene and I sounds like he's talking to the broken English of a Russian car dealer instead of a beautiful young half elf girl...and the Trolls are even worse, all sounding like High Pitched (Also slavic) Yoda/JarJar...

My desperate hope is that he wasn't consulted or had no say, as I can't imagine that the accents would be that bad. I have ITN in audiobook to listen to in the car, but I've gone back to my physical copy as the narration accents are so bad. Tad has not done accents for them when he does readings himself.

Like here he is reading from THE NAVIGATOR'S CHILDREN in Germany last year...Tiamak and his wife in conversation. Like I accept that there are different regions in Osten Ard and there would be accents, but I see no reason for the extreme weird choices Wincott made when Tad just gives them milder voices.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: Yesterday, 03:39 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

I think part of the reason I really disliked the Memory Sorrow Thorn is the narrator.

I mean, the 27,000 pages of trudging and whining were certainly part of it, but the narrator was quite annoying.

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: Yesterday, 07:36 PM

[T77]

I don't recall how I felt about his narrators. But when you mentioned it it vaguely rings a bell about bad accents. I'll be sure to take notice on the next audio-book.

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 24 February 2026 - 07:36 PM, said:

I think part of the reason I really disliked the Memory Sorrow Thorn is the narrator.

I mean, the 27,000 pages of trudging and whining were certainly part of it, but the narrator was quite annoying.

It's so strange because Andrew Wincott is like a prestige narrator...so for him to fumble.

I'd be curious what you would think to read one of the novellas like THE HEART OF WHAT WAS LOST (which is post Storm King war, with Isgrimnur taking a group of soldiers north to chase the remaining Norns to their mountain stronghold), or BROTHERS OF THE WIND (which takes place when the Sithi still ruled Asu'a (The Hayholt), and Jiriiki and Aditu's family, the Year Dancing House were in charge and have to deal with a dragon in mortal lands north of them....the same dragon whose skull is what the throne is made of in MS&T)....as I feel like the shorter novellas length might better sit with you...

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: Today, 02:52 PM