[Andorion]

NefaraisBredd, on 24 September 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

Touche! Well said. When did Daszem defeat Kallor? I do not remember reading that. Rake never moved against him either in spite of many implied threats. Kallor sneered at many gods before Dassem showed up. Also, didnt Rake send his best man to slow Kallor down because he knew that Kallor was a rank mofo who was the most likely to be ABLE to actually take advantage of the situation? They dropped a GOD on him for eff sakes!! 3 elder Azathanai could only curse him, not defeat him. Just saying man.

Rake sent Spinnock to stop him as he knew he himself would be too busy. He was more concerned that Kallor may reach Dragnipur when Rake was dead/injured.

The Elder Gods cursed him as they wanted him to suffer.

[Jaime Lannister]

NefaraisBredd, on 24 September 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

Touche! Well said. When did Daszem defeat Kallor? I do not remember reading that. Rake never moved against him either in spite of many implied threats. Kallor sneered at many gods before Dassem showed up. Also, didnt Rake send his best man to slow Kallor down because he knew that Kallor was a rank mofo who was the most likely to be ABLE to actually take advantage of the situation? They dropped a GOD on him for eff sakes!! 3 elder Azathanai could only curse him, not defeat him. Just saying man.

Not sure if you've read RotCG, so I'll place their encounter in spoilers:

Spoiler

The two closed, feet shuffling slowly and carefully, blades extended. Kyle was worried, for the High King had just demonstrated amazing speed and his bastard sword was a much heavier blade than Traveller's. Not to mention that the man was more heavily armoured. The blades touched, scraping. Both held two-handed grips. They clashed once, iron snarling. They clashed again, parrying, then Traveller was somehow before Kallor, his fists at the man's chest, blade thrust completely through to the hilt. Kyle gaped and Kallor stared as well, just as astonished. One of his mailed hands went to Traveller's grip while the other swung his weapon. Traveller snapped up a hand to clasp the man's forearm. They held like that for a time, circling and straining, Kallor's blade held high while Traveller's slim dark blade thrust straight from Kallor's back. Kyle was chilled to see no blood upon that blade. Fury changed to consternation to disbelief on the High King's lined face as his eyes widened and his lips peeled back from grey teeth. 'Who … are … you?' he ground out. Edging his head closer, Traveller spoke, his words lost beneath Kallor's gasped breaths. The High King blanched, flinching away. 'No! Chained One, aid me!'

Another passage in the books that suggests Kallor isn't quite on the top rung comes from Brood. When Brood enumerates some individuals he seems to consider Kallor's superior, Kallor appears to (tacitly) agree.

Spoiler

'Kallor, you choose your enemies well. Have you ever crossed weapons with Anomander Rake? Dassem Ultor? Greymane? The Seguleh First?' He did not need to add: with me? 'I will face none of them in Coral', Kallor growled.

[Kalam&Quick]

Personaly Id Say Rake > Dassem/segulah First > Silchas/Karsa > Trull/Brys/tool/Whiskeyjack/Cotolllion/apsalara/Kallor
The only person i feel that wasn't mentioned that could do with some consideration is Brood.
Based off his actions it Seems like he believes he is atlas somewhat on par with Rake and He definitely believes he is above Kallor.
Even though we really have never had a true example of What he can do, and the fact that he weilds a hammer instead of a traditional "Sword" I'm sure he is able to keep his own With some of the big baddies out there.

[Jaime Lannister]

Cotillion is an interesting one. While he doesn't have much feats, that he was prepared to set himself against an enraged Icarium suggests he's on a similar level (since he must have believed his victory plausible enough to attempt it). That he didn't immediately do so and instead regarded himself as a last resort, however, also means his chances were less than certain.

[Andorion]

Jaime Lannister, on 29 September 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

Cotillion is an interesting one. While he doesn't have much feats, that he was prepared to set himself against an enraged Icarium suggests he's on a similar level (since he must have believed his victory plausible enough to attempt it). That he didn't immediately do so and instead regarded himself as a last resort, however, also means his chances were less than certain.

My impression was Cotillion was willing to put himself into the fray to get shadowthrone enough time to intervene. I don't think he ever though he stood a serious chance, but then again Cotillion has always been noble and as Dancer his job was to put his life on the line, so he may have contined in that vein

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

Kalam&Quick, on 29 September 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Personaly Id Say Rake > Dassem/segulah First > Silchas/Karsa > Trull/Brys/tool/Whiskeyjack/Cotolllion/apsalara/Kallor
The only person i feel that wasn't mentioned that could do with some consideration is Brood.
Based off his actions it Seems like he believes he is atlas somewhat on par with Rake and He definitely believes he is above Kallor.
Even though we really have never had a true example of What he can do, and the fact that he weilds a hammer instead of a traditional "Sword" I'm sure he is able to keep his own With some of the big baddies out there.

Kallor is below everyone on that list, easily. I think he would be the next tier down. Whiskeyjack would have killed him, if not for his bad let. Cotiliion and Apslara would laugh at him, quite frankly. Trull, Brys and Tool probably belong on a tier between Karsas and Whiskeyjacks. as they are far superior to the others IMO

[Andorion]

Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai, on 01 October 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Kalam&Quick, on 29 September 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Personaly Id Say Rake > Dassem/segulah First > Silchas/Karsa > Trull/Brys/tool/Whiskeyjack/Cotolllion/apsalara/Kallor
The only person i feel that wasn't mentioned that could do with some consideration is Brood.
Based off his actions it Seems like he believes he is atlas somewhat on par with Rake and He definitely believes he is above Kallor.
Even though we really have never had a true example of What he can do, and the fact that he weilds a hammer instead of a traditional "Sword" I'm sure he is able to keep his own With some of the big baddies out there.

Kallor is below everyone on that list, easily. I think he would be the next tier down. Whiskeyjack would have killed him, if not for his bad let. Cotiliion and Apslara would laugh at him, quite frankly. Trull, Brys and Tool probably belong on a tier between Karsas and Whiskeyjacks. as they are far superior to the others IMO

Whiskeyjack couldn't have killed Kallor.

In RotCG Traveller stabs Kallor to the heart but he doesn't die. He is severely injured but he doesn't die. He is way harder to kill than that. This has nothing to do with his prowess as a fighter. He is durable, tough and tenacious. Part of his long life curse I think.

[Mentalist]

Skill-wise, gotta go with Rake after what he did in TtH.

Otherwise, probably Dassem.

[Itwæs Nom]

Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai, on 01 October 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Kalam&Quick, on 29 September 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Personaly Id Say Rake > Dassem/segulah First > Silchas/Karsa > Trull/Brys/tool/Whiskeyjack/Cotolllion/apsalara/Kallor
The only person i feel that wasn't mentioned that could do with some consideration is Brood.
Based off his actions it Seems like he believes he is atlas somewhat on par with Rake and He definitely believes he is above Kallor.
Even though we really have never had a true example of What he can do, and the fact that he weilds a hammer instead of a traditional "Sword" I'm sure he is able to keep his own With some of the big baddies out there.

Kallor is below everyone on that list, easily. I think he would be the next tier down. Whiskeyjack would have killed him, if not for his bad let. Cotiliion and Apslara would laugh at him, quite frankly. Trull, Brys and Tool probably belong on a tier between Karsas and Whiskeyjacks. as they are far superior to the others IMO

Trulls fight with Silchas actually ended up with Silchas getting uncoscious, ofcourse it wouldnt prob happen if Seren didnt help, but it was very very close until Trulls spear broke and I believe he would have fair chance to win even without help if he had better spear. His spear was still just regular Edur spear while Silchas had fucking blue style forged Letherii steel swords with names(Sarat Wept and Glory Goat)! And even when Silchas fell down, Trull was still handicapped because he was down too plus he had one fo those swords stuck in his leg and after a while he defeated him.

So imho Trull is same tier as Silchas.

[Gnaw]

Really? All the MBotF lore represented here and none of you come even close let alone get it right?? Seriously?

"Allow us to introduce ourselves..." - Bottle, Reaper's Gale

• Fiddler
• Hedge
• Crump

"Isn't that just like a wop? Brings a knife to a gun fight." - Malone, The Untouchables

[Jaime Lannister]

.

Charlie Nom, on 01 October 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

Trulls fight with Silchas actually ended up with Silchas getting uncoscious, ofcourse it wouldnt prob happen if Seren didnt help, but it was very very close until Trulls spear broke and I believe he would have fair chance to win even without help if he had better spear. His spear was still just regular Edur spear while Silchas had fucking blue style forged Letherii steel swords with names(Sarat Wept and Glory Goat)! And even when Silchas fell down, Trull was still handicapped because he was down too plus he had one fo those swords stuck in his leg and after a while he defeated him.

So imho Trull is same tier as Silchas.

Trrull, in his fury, attacked a unwary Silchas who still speaking to him mid-sentence -- cutting the base of his throat and puncturing his shoulder muscle. Even so, Silchas was able to draw both his blades before another one of Trull's hits could land, instantly parry all of the incoming strikes and send Trull reeling, handily. Trull's shaft being broken was a consequence of Trull being unable to fend off Silchas's strikes -- he was forced from using the tip offensively, to using the shaft to vainly stave off Silchas's blades. I don't know how much his swords accounted for that, but I don't think it'd be enough to close such a vast gap. I mean, he wilted in a matter of seconds before someone who he delivered a sneak attack on, and had not even drawn his weapons yet.

Given Trull's superior performance against an enraged Icarium, that is arguably one of the most impressive skill feats in the entire series.

This post has been edited by Jaime Lannister: 01 October 2015 - 11:27 PM

[Andorion]

Jaime Lannister, on 01 October 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

.

Charlie Nom, on 01 October 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

Trulls fight with Silchas actually ended up with Silchas getting uncoscious, ofcourse it wouldnt prob happen if Seren didnt help, but it was very very close until Trulls spear broke and I believe he would have fair chance to win even without help if he had better spear. His spear was still just regular Edur spear while Silchas had fucking blue style forged Letherii steel swords with names(Sarat Wept and Glory Goat)! And even when Silchas fell down, Trull was still handicapped because he was down too plus he had one fo those swords stuck in his leg and after a while he defeated him.

So imho Trull is same tier as Silchas.

Trrull, in his fury, attacked a unwary Silchas who still speaking to him mid-sentence -- cutting the base of his throat and puncturing his shoulder muscle. Even so, Silchas was able to draw both his blades before another one of Trull's hits could land, instantly parry all of the incoming strikes and send Trull reeling, handily. Trull's shaft being broken was a consequence of Trull being unable to fend off Silchas's strikes -- he was forced from using the tip offensively, to using the shaft to vainly stave off Silchas's blades. I don't know how much his swords accounted for that, but I don't think it'd be enough to close such a vast gap. I mean, he wilted in a matter of seconds before someone who he delivered a sneak attack on, and had not even drawn his weapons yet.

Given Trull's superior performance against an enraged Icarium, that is arguably one of the most impressive skill feats in the entire series.

Just note for context that Silchas is a 100000 year+ old Eleint Soletaken Ascendant, a veteran of the vicious Tiste civil wars. his inherent strength, speed and experience dwarfs Trulls. But if Trulls spear had not broken, I think he would have found a way to get in a few offensive strikes of his own.

[worry]

Trull sucks.

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai, on 01 October 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Kalam&Quick, on 29 September 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Personaly Id Say Rake > Dassem/segulah First > Silchas/Karsa > Trull/Brys/tool/Whiskeyjack/Cotolllion/apsalara/Kallor
The only person i feel that wasn't mentioned that could do with some consideration is Brood.
Based off his actions it Seems like he believes he is atlas somewhat on par with Rake and He definitely believes he is above Kallor.
Even though we really have never had a true example of What he can do, and the fact that he weilds a hammer instead of a traditional "Sword" I'm sure he is able to keep his own With some of the big baddies out there.

Kallor is below everyone on that list, easily. I think he would be the next tier down. Whiskeyjack would have killed him, if not for his bad let. Cotiliion and Apslara would laugh at him, quite frankly. Trull, Brys and Tool probably belong on a tier between Karsas and Whiskeyjacks. as they are far superior to the others IMO

Mortals hold certain power beyond Ascendants in this series and I believe that if Whiskeyjack had managed to land his counter, it would have been fatal. Just because Kallor would not have died, doesn't mean hes a better fighter. If he loses in his attack, and is dealt what should be a fatal blow, that means hes a worse sword fighter. Regardless of if he can cheat with the curse. I know that Dassem impaled him, was it actually through his heart? I can't remember. Although there was no blood, suggesting the heart has no bearing anyway lol. Don't forget Dassem is always being watched by some god or another, so a nudge here, an intervention there. Also Kallor was crying behind the CG most of the time so that too has an impact on his survival. I just don't like Kallor. Prick needs to die, fully. Hopefully by the hands of the Bridge Burners, who owe him for WJ

[Itwæs Nom]

Jaime Lannister, on 01 October 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

.

Charlie Nom, on 01 October 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

Trulls fight with Silchas actually ended up with Silchas getting uncoscious, ofcourse it wouldnt prob happen if Seren didnt help, but it was very very close until Trulls spear broke and I believe he would have fair chance to win even without help if he had better spear. His spear was still just regular Edur spear while Silchas had fucking blue style forged Letherii steel swords with names(Sarat Wept and Glory Goat)! And even when Silchas fell down, Trull was still handicapped because he was down too plus he had one fo those swords stuck in his leg and after a while he defeated him.

So imho Trull is same tier as Silchas.

Trrull, in his fury, attacked a unwary Silchas who still speaking to him mid-sentence -- cutting the base of his throat and puncturing his shoulder muscle. Even so, Silchas was able to draw both his blades before another one of Trull's hits could land, instantly parry all of the incoming strikes and send Trull reeling, handily. Trull's shaft being broken was a consequence of Trull being unable to fend off Silchas's strikes -- he was forced from using the tip offensively, to using the shaft to vainly stave off Silchas's blades. I don't know how much his swords accounted for that, but I don't think it'd be enough to close such a vast gap. I mean, he wilted in a matter of seconds before someone who he delivered a sneak attack on, and had not even drawn his weapons yet.

Given Trull's superior performance against an enraged Icarium, that is arguably one of the most impressive skill feats in the entire series.

Well, I admit that Silchas was unwary and speaking to him, but as Andorion mentioned hes ascendant so the wounds didnt have that big impact on him. Also he drew his swords before Fear tried o stab him, which started Trulls attack so the swords were out even while 1st Trulls attack.

This post has been edited by Charlie Nom: 02 October 2015 - 01:33 PM

[Kellanved's shadow]

You people have it all wrong obviously the best sword/weapon fighter is Nefarrias Bredd. I mean come on he could slay all of these other fighters in five second flat.

[Kanese S's]

NefaraisBredd, on 24 September 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

Touche! Well said. When did Daszem defeat Kallor? I do not remember reading that. Rake never moved against him either in spite of many implied threats. Kallor sneered at many gods before Dassem showed up. Also, didnt Rake send his best man to slow Kallor down because he knew that Kallor was a rank mofo who was the most likely to be ABLE to actually take advantage of the situation? They dropped a GOD on him for eff sakes!! 3 elder Azathanai could only curse him, not defeat him. Just saying man.

Dassem beat him fairly easily in RotCG. Kallor ran away after not being very impressive.

Also the Elder Gods wanted Kallor to live a life of frustration, failure, and suffering. They could have killed him, but decided that death was too good for him.

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 28 January 2016 - 01:42 PM

[Inkdaub]

I chose Dassem Ultor.

Onos T'oolan was a reasonably close second but Ultor wins this one I think. I tried to ignore everything beyond pure skill at arms, which is impossible to do really whose skill and power are so wrapped up together in their identity. Rake was a tough call for me as he is obviously extremely competent and is also extremely old and has had all those years to refine and improve his skillset. That's one point in Kallor's favor, I think. As a warrior and leader of men he was likely very good with a blade even before the curse effectively immortalized him. Still, that point can go to many of the people in this poll and Kallor is outclassed by all of them. Rake would prove a contender in the poll without his other abilities, while Kallor and Icarium would definitely not.

Onos T'oolan being beaten by Mok always bothered me and I don't really know why. I understand who, and more importantly what, the Seguleh are as far as their skill with weapons goes. I just feel the First Sword of the T'Lan Imass would rank as well among them as would anyone else. That doesn't diminish their greatness at all...Tool is a rare individual much like Ultor and would have fared as well. In my mind at least. Mok was Third and can drop just about any opponent he comes into contact with so maybe I'm selling him short. Tool is one of my favorite characters if not my favorite so I could be a bit of homer in this case.

[Kanese S's]

Inkdaub, on 19 February 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

I chose Dassem Ultor.

Onos T'oolan was a reasonably close second but Ultor wins this one I think. I tried to ignore everything beyond pure skill at arms, which is impossible to do really whose skill and power are so wrapped up together in their identity. Rake was a tough call for me as he is obviously extremely competent and is also extremely old and has had all those years to refine and improve his skillset. That's one point in Kallor's favor, I think. As a warrior and leader of men he was likely very good with a blade even before the curse effectively immortalized him. Still, that point can go to many of the people in this poll and Kallor is outclassed by all of them. Rake would prove a contender in the poll without his other abilities, while Kallor and Icarium would definitely not.

Onos T'oolan being beaten by Mok always bothered me and I don't really know why. I understand who, and more importantly what, the Seguleh are as far as their skill with weapons goes. I just feel the First Sword of the T'Lan Imass would rank as well among them as would anyone else. That doesn't diminish their greatness at all...Tool is a rare individual much like Ultor and would have fared as well. In my mind at least. Mok was Third and can drop just about any opponent he comes into contact with so maybe I'm selling him short. Tool is one of my favorite characters if not my favorite so I could be a bit of homer in this case.

From what I gather, rankings among the Seguleh that high up are decided by things like tiny imperfections in attacks and parries and so forth. So the first few Seguleh are all quite close in ability (except for the First, which is bestowed rather than taken).