[Andorion]

If he mistook his gun for a taser, doesn't that show he has no training, or inadequate training and preparation? I understand small towns may need reserve deputies but rules regarding training, age restrictions should be implemented and imposed.

[worry]

There's so much wrong with that situation that training is only one ingredient.

On tasers and Walter Scott: http://www.salon.com..._talking_about/

[amphibian]

Briar King, on 15 April 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:

There should definitely be an age limit or at least physical requirements testing every few months. Idk about Oklahoma but in Louisiana my mother was a reserve/civilian deputy from the late 90's to her death in 08 and she spent massive amounts of $ to do it. She had to pay for everything from uniform/gun/training. Hell she even had her own cruiser at the house for about 2 yrs and paid the Parish for the right to do that. I have her service.357 revolver now and her .380 (James Bond) back up gun.

What did your mother get out of this? Why did she spend nearly 20 years paying out of her own pocket to be a reserve/civilian deputy?

I'm not asking because I think your mother is a terrible person (I don't). I'm asking because that's a fairly large chunk of money and risk acceptance to be ponying up for what seems to be less than a part-time job or even volunteer work entirely.

[Primateus]

I thought I'd share this to give you guys maybe just a little perspective on how things are done in other countries.


yeah, you're going to have to start the video from the beginning, I'm not exactly sure what happened.

This post has been edited by Primateus: 16 April 2015 - 09:17 AM

[Tsundoku]

Stay classy, Parma:

http://www.news.com....v-1227312772586

[worry]

It never ends.
http://www.kmov.com/...emorial-missing

[Tsundoku]

worry, on 21 April 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

It never ends.
http://www.kmov.com/...emorial-missing

"While police said they are investigating the vandalism, they do not yet have any suspects."

Sure they're investigating. Even in a community with less divides than this, it would be a low priority. But in this one ...

[worry]

http://www.nytimes.c...tamir-rice.html

[worry]

There's violence in Baltimore every day though. It's national newsworthy right now because it's bottom up instead of top down, and those on top hope to weave the larger protest, and legitimate anger, into the ever-pervasive illegitimate-black-riot narrative.

Anyway, here's something:
http://www.theatlant...pliance/391640/

[QuickTidal]

It sounds as if it's not about the protest anymore. We have good friends in Baltimore who we spoke with this morning, and on the ground there they say this has become about opportunists razing and looting their own neighborhood. Which is really sad.

http://www.nbcnews.c...iolence-n349501

[Studlock]

Serious question for y'all what do you think 'good' protests look like and do you honestly think they work in changing public policy, social beliefs, cultural trends, etc.

[QuickTidal]

Here's an older but decently organized article on protests (street protests in general), and why they don't really work.

http://www.theatlant...nt-work/360264/

[Studlock]

Exactly--the current method of protests approved by the (white in this instance) majority is basically useless in changing policy, or effecting any kind of social justice. Which leaves us with pretty much to options: political organization (which the cynic in me thinks any kind of political organization the we saw in the 60s from the black community in the states will be meant with large racist backlash and because be ineffective) or violence resistance. I don't think looting is violence resistance, I think it's a violent outburst by a populace that the system has failed so dramatically that the lash out in any direction. Sadly I think the situation in the states will eventually lead to violent resistance because the state nor the majority populace, are actually willing to allow of black political organization. I also think most people who decry the 'violence' enjoy negative order oppose to positive peace because this violence would have never had happen if the majority actually defended it's black brothers and sisters from state harm.

But this shit has me in a bad mood so I don't know.

[QuickTidal]

Yeah, I'm not endorsing violence though Studlock. Sorry.

Someone commented on Gawker and I think it sums it up well.
There were protests yesterday in Baltimore. There were also riots yesterday in Baltimore. Most people in Baltimore are good people. Some people in Baltimore are jerks. Many people in Baltimore are angry, with good reason. Some people in Baltimore are taking advantage of this anger, to be jerks.

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 28 April 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

It sounds as if it's not about the protest anymore. We have good friends in Baltimore who we spoke with this morning, and on the ground there they say this has become about opportunists razing and looting their own neighborhood. Which is really sad.

http://www.nbcnews.c...iolence-n349501

QuickTidal, on 28 April 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Here's an older but decently organized article on protests (street protests in general), and why they don't really work.

http://www.theatlant...nt-work/360264/

The Baltimore police have handled this abysmally. They're nearly at Ferguson PD levels now. First, they kill a man by severing his spine and voice box, then stonewall attempts to find out what happened, then they overreact to protests and a handful of rioters (still less damage incurred than when the Ravens won the NFL championships and Baltimore sports fans rioted) and finally, they shut down the schools and mass transit, leaving kids and teenagers stranded miles away from home. The police also took kids off school buses and funneled them into the protesters/rioters. That's extremely shitty, even if some of those teens are taking the opportunity to start breaking stuff.

Then the Baltimore police started making passive aggressive threats to those same kids and teenagers through various forms of media. That's dangerous and it's still ongoing. https://twitter.com/...802390316822529

The rioters are a small handful of people and the destruction of property is concerning, but it is still lesser than the murder of a man in police custody.

The Baltimore Orioles COO has a great reaction to all of this that shows a deeper understanding of the Baltimore community than even the mayor had displayed: http://deadspin.com/...redd-1700423773

As for the protests failing, most forms of attempted change fail. Street protests do work at a higher rate than ballot box initiatives (which don't apply to the police, who are the crux of the issue in Baltimore and Ferguson) and have forced intense national and local conversations about important issues through mild obstructionism and media attention.

The Moshe Naim article is missing the point here. Really missing the point. The police aren't directly influenced by votes from the citizens. Street protests effectively bring the issue into attention of the local government, the state government and the national media. So far, the local and state governments have declared a state of emergency and fallen into line behind the cops - who murdered a man and won't answer anybody's questions about that.

So....

[Studlock]

QuickTidal, on 28 April 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm not endorsing violence though Studlock. Sorry.

Someone commented on Gawker and I think it sums it up well.
There were protests yesterday in Baltimore. There were also riots yesterday in Baltimore. Most people in Baltimore are good people. Some people in Baltimore are jerks. Many people in Baltimore are angry, with good reason. Some people in Baltimore are taking advantage of this anger, to be jerks.

I don't either but I'm not going to tut-tut my way to moral superiority either. There have been protest all over the states and the cops are still kill black people for little to no reason. The current politically correct response of being a good and law-abiding citizen is not working. It has been failing to work since of the end of Jim Crow. And I have no doubt to continue to fail because there is little to no political pressure to actually to do shit about it. People are going to get violent whether we, the far and away, or the political majority in the states want it to or not. I'd rather address the reason for the violence rather than tut-tut.

And the most fucked up thing is violence, compared to non-violence, has achieved more success at changing the system in USA if not the world (which of course is up-to-debate--it wasn't well organized peaceful protests that stopped the Nazi's, it was well organized bullets).


And that person in the comment clearly has never since the Wire, which came in 2001, and for all intents and purposes represented a realistic Baltimore. This shit is new or recent (read the article Worry linked if you don't trust the Wire--it is a TV show after all).

[QuickTidal]

I linked to the protests article because it makes some solid points. It's a broad article about street protests and mostly mentions ones that took place in Asia, and the Occupy movement. It was meant as a reply to Studlock's ask about "protests" and not about Baltimore and its police specifically in this instance. Apologies that wasn't clear.

I'm also not arguing that the Baltimore police didn't mishandle this...just that Gray's family asked for peace and quiet on the day they buried their son. They didn't get that, and I found that sad.

[QuickTidal]

Studlock, on 28 April 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 28 April 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm not endorsing violence though Studlock. Sorry.

Someone commented on Gawker and I think it sums it up well.
There were protests yesterday in Baltimore. There were also riots yesterday in Baltimore. Most people in Baltimore are good people. Some people in Baltimore are jerks. Many people in Baltimore are angry, with good reason. Some people in Baltimore are taking advantage of this anger, to be jerks.

And that person in the comment clearly has never since the Wire, which came in 2001, and for all intents and purposes represented a realistic Baltimore. This shit is new or recent (read the article Worry linked if you don't trust the Wire--it is a TV show after all).

I'm aware of what Baltimore is like, I've been there myself multiple times and my wife's best childhood friend has lived and worked there for many years. I know how realistic the portrayal of Baltimore was on the Wire. Not arguing that.

[Studlock]

Yes, I'm sorry I came on strong. You simply stated it was sad. I've been internet comments all day of a different manner and well like so I'm in a bad mood but that doesn't excuse me taking it out on you.

[Nicodimas]

Quote

“Brett, speaking only for myself, I agree with your point that the principle of peaceful, non-violent protest and the observance of the rule of law is of utmost importance in any society. MLK, Gandhi, Mandela, and all great opposition leaders throughout history have always preached this precept. Further, it is critical that in any democracy investigation must be completed and due process must be honored before any government or police members are judged responsible.



That said, my greater source of personal concern, outrage and sympathy beyond this particular case is focused neither upon one night’s property damage nor upon the acts, but is focused rather upon the past four-decade period during which an American political elite have shipped middle class and working class jobs away from Baltimore and cities and towns around the U.S. to third-world dictatorships like China and others, plunged tens of millions of good hard-working Americans into economic devastation, and then followed that action around the nation by diminishing every American’s civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an ever-declining standard of living and suffering at the butt end of an ever-more militarized and aggressive surveillance state.



The innocent working families of all backgrounds whose lives and dreams have been cut short by excessive violence, surveillance, and other abuses of the Bill of Rights by government pay the true price, an ultimate price, and one that far exceeds the importance of any kids’ game played tonight, or ever, at Camden Yards. We need to keep in mind people are suffering and dying around the U.S., and while we are thankful no one was injured at Camden Yards, there is a far bigger picture for poor Americans in Baltimore and everywhere who don’t have jobs and are losing economic civil and legal rights, and this makes inconvenience at a ball game irrelevant in light of the needless suffering government is inflicting upon ordinary Americans.”

---Orioles Executive Vice President John Angelos, son of majority owner Peter Angelos