[rlfcl]

Hiya,

Re-reading the series and having trouble getting the timeline of malazan/7C interaction down in my head for some reason.

The basic question is: when did the empire first conquer 7C? Dassem dies/the bridge burners are formed sometime around 1154, but IIRC this is during what's earlier in the series presented as a conquest, but with barathol's intro in Tbh looks more like an initial rebellion during a period of less direct malazan control (hegemony?) centred on aren.

Also, boatfinder's narrative about iskar jarak changing the anibar from a more plains dwelling people to a entirely forest-dwelling society seems to indicate that more time than ~12 years has passed, which confuses me more considering the BB timeline. Any clarification appreciated

If this has been addressed sorry, stuck with a mobile version for the next little bit & can't seem to access the search fn

This post has been edited by rlfcl: 15 November 2014 - 05:57 AM

[D'iversify]

rlfcl, on 15 November 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

Hiya,

Re-reading the series and having trouble getting the timeline of malazan/7C interaction down in my head for some reason.

The basic question is: when did the empire first conquer 7C? Dassem dies/the bridge burners are formed sometime around 1154, but IIRC this is during what's earlier in the series presented as a conquest, but with barathol's intro in Tbh looks more like an initial rebellion during a period of less direct malazan control (hegemony?) centred on aren.

Also, boatfinder's narrative about iskar jarak changing the anibar from a more plains dwelling people to a entirely forest-dwelling society seems to indicate that more time than ~12 years has passed, which confuses me more considering the BB timeline. Any clarification appreciated

If this has been addressed sorry, stuck with a mobile version for the next little bit & can't seem to access the search fn

From the Malazan wiki: "Over the next century [after the Empire's founding in 1058 Burn's Sleep], the Malazan Empire sprawled across Quon Tali, eventually seizing control of the entire continent. The Empire's trading fleets were soon growing rich from trading with Korel to the south-east, Seven Cities to the north and Genabackis to the north-east. Explorations of the landmass immediately to the west ofQuon Tali (south-west of Seven Cities and part of the same landmass) were curtailed by the unrelenting hostile intransigence of the Shal-Morzinn Empire, whose formidable magical might gave even Kellanved pause. Instead the Malazan Empire expanded into Seven Cities, seizing control of the subcontinent in a bloody war. During this time Emperor Kellanved discovered the former First Throne and took seat upon it, gaining control of the clans of the undead T'lan Imass. Despite the vast and formidable power of the undead army, Kellanved used the undead warriors sparingly. During one incident the Imass - apparently acting on the orders of Clawmaster Surly - believing the orders to come from Kellanved - brutally sacked the Holy City ofAren, slaughtering the inhabitants en masse. After this incident, Kellanved apparently did not use the overwhelming military might of the Imass again. By the war's conclusion the subcontinent was subdued, but wore the Malazan yoke uneasily. A massive rebellion erupted some years later, a rebellion during which the Empire's First Sword, Dassem Ultor, was lost at Y'Ghatan."

So it appears the original conquest of Seven Cities is currently undated, being 'some years before' Dassem Ultor's fall at Y'ghatan in 1154. For a complete guess, let's say that the Malazans first got a foothold in Seven Cities c. 1120, that the Sack of Aren occurred c. 1135 and that the remainder of the subcontinent was subdued by c. 1140, with 'some years' meaning about 15 years - enough time for Seven Cities to recover from the war and for resentment to Malazan rule to come to a head. Arbitrary dates, yes, but perhaps a framework.

[D'rek]

Putting lots of bits and pieces together, it seems to me that the original conquest of Seven Cities was many decades before the main events of the series, and the original conquest left the existing political system of the Seven Cities mostly in place - ie the Falah'd still ruled each of the Holy Cities. But then as much as a decade or two before the GotM prologue, the Falah'd all rebelled against the Malazan Empire. The Malazans then spent another decade or so re-conquering much of Seven Cities and this time they eliminated the Falah'd and put their own governors in charge.

This later rebellion phase is the one Whiskeyjack speaks of in MoI when talking about the formation of the Bridgeburners. The last Falah'dan of this rebellion holes up in Y'Ghatan with that last champion, until Dassem and armies attack it. Dassem dies and the rebellion ends.

But that's just my overall impression... it fits a lot of bits about some things being very long ago and others quite recent, but there's probably other ways that could make sense.

[D'iversify]

D, on 15 November 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

Putting lots of bits and pieces together, it seems to me that the original conquest of Seven Cities was many decades before the main events of the series, and the original conquest left the existing political system of the Seven Cities mostly in place - ie the Falah'd still ruled each of the Holy Cities. But then as much as a decade or two before the GotM prologue, the Falah'd all rebelled against the Malazan Empire. The Malazans then spent another decade or so re-conquering much of Seven Cities and this time they eliminated the Falah'd and put their own governors in charge.

This later rebellion phase is the one Whiskeyjack speaks of in MoI when talking about the formation of the Bridgeburners. The last Falah'dan of this rebellion holes up in Y'Ghatan with that last champion, until Dassem and armies attack it. Dassem dies and the rebellion ends.

But that's just my overall impression... it fits a lot of bits about some things being very long ago and others quite recent, but there's probably other ways that could make sense.

OK, that makes a lot of sense. That would put the initial Malazan occupation of parts of 7C quite a bit further back. As to how far back, we assume that they moved into 7C after conquering Quon Tali and Falar and also after their decision not to invade Shal-Morzinn. We know that the Malazans had reached as far north as the Fenn range in 1066 when they displaced the D'Avores from their original holdings, leading K'azz to found the Avowed, but that the conquest of the Quon Tali subcontinent was still not complete at this stage, with continued resistance from the newly established Crimson Guard. Is there a date for the expulsion of the Crimson Guard to Stratem as that may date the consolidation of Quon Tali? I get the impression that the Falari campaign was quite lengthy but that conquest was incomplete by the time the Malazans moved into 7C given that we have veterans who remember campaigning in the Strike islands. So 1090-1100 for the first Malazan foothold in 7C?