[Imperial Historian]

champ, on 20 May 2020 - 02:51 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 26 April 2020 - 04:45 PM, said:

Very much enjoyed this, not what I was expecting. I think the biggest question though is:

Spoiler

taproot?!? What? How? So intrigued!

Before getting into this, which books have you read? I really do not want to give anything away.


My thoughts were similar though, it was different to what I expected but that is not a bad thing.




I read through The Girl and the Stars in a couple of days when it was released, I really enjoyed it.


The lore and history of Abeth is so engrossing, especially now that we are learning a bit more about the planet's past.


Mark writes it in the book - "We are given answers that only lead to more questions..." and that is what I love about books.


My biggest current intrigue is:

Spoiler

How everything connects, especially with the Four Tribes of man. How did they come to be? After the end we see in the Jorg and Jalan books it has me wondering... Has it just been that long that man has evolved?


Out of all the mysteries that has grabbed me the most which was surprising, I used to be all about the Missing.

And that ending!!!!!! No comment...


There was one thing that I did think was missing from the book, there was little to no humour at all, even the dry/morbid/dark type that we have seen before but that is nitpicking.


Finishing the book made me pick up Red Sister again to see what connections I can find so I am currently working my way through that.

I've read them all, my current understanding :

Spoiler

jorg and co are the ancestors of the missing? But the timescale seems too massive...

[Cause]

Whats this? A new Mark lawrence book!

Tell me everything, I need this.

[champ]

Imperial Historian, on 20 May 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

champ, on 20 May 2020 - 02:51 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 26 April 2020 - 04:45 PM, said:

Very much enjoyed this, not what I was expecting. I think the biggest question though is:

Spoiler

taproot?!? What? How? So intrigued!

Before getting into this, which books have you read? I really do not want to give anything away.


My thoughts were similar though, it was different to what I expected but that is not a bad thing.




I read through The Girl and the Stars in a couple of days when it was released, I really enjoyed it.


The lore and history of Abeth is so engrossing, especially now that we are learning a bit more about the planet's past.


Mark writes it in the book - "We are given answers that only lead to more questions..." and that is what I love about books.


My biggest current intrigue is:

Spoiler

How everything connects, especially with the Four Tribes of man. How did they come to be? After the end we see in the Jorg and Jalan books it has me wondering... Has it just been that long that man has evolved?


Out of all the mysteries that has grabbed me the most which was surprising, I used to be all about the Missing.

And that ending!!!!!! No comment...


There was one thing that I did think was missing from the book, there was little to no humour at all, even the dry/morbid/dark type that we have seen before but that is nitpicking.


Finishing the book made me pick up Red Sister again to see what connections I can find so I am currently working my way through that.

I've read them all, my current understanding :

Spoiler

jorg and co are the ancestors of the missing? But the timescale seems too massive...

There are a few things that have me pondering... thinking aloud...

Spoiler

We've got the Four Tribes which are described as the Four Tribes of "Man". They are said to have come to Abeth long ago after the Missing had vanished...


My guess reading The Book of the Ancestor series was that man had evolved, left Earth and come to Abeth as they were called the Tribes of "Man" so that made sense.


But at the end of the Ancestor series we get Taproot... either he left Earth to come to Abeth at some point too or Abeth is Earth...


If Abeth is Earth then the Missing are Man and the Four Tribes are what, Alien? Or the Four Tribes are Man that left Earth long ago and sometime in the far distant future they come around back to Earth?!


If Abeth isn't earth, then how did Man evolve to become the Four Tribes... was it purely down to the length of time that went by?


Then we come to The Girl and the Stars and Erris says that Taproot came to Abeth a very long time ago...


(BTW Erris is in the Ancestor series in a way... he writes a book that Nona acquires... cool little nod there and connection).


So either Erris is wrong and Taproot was always on Abeth and Man is the Missing? Or he did in fact come to Abeth and Man are the Four Tribes and again, how did they become the Four Tribes?


To further complicate matters, you have Erris and Ozymandias, which he says was from before the Four Tribes arrive...


Plus "Prometheus" and you know "Seus" is going somewhere...


So aye... something just isn't adding up at the moment or there is something glaring obvious that I am missing...


I need to read Broken/Red Queen yet again as I want to read about the tech city we see Jorg come across to see if there is any connection there...


Also, have you read the Impossible Times trilogy?

So aye, I've no idea... haha...

Cause, on 20 May 2020 - 05:54 PM, said:

Whats this? A new Mark lawrence book!

Tell me everything, I need this.

A glorious new book set in the world of the Book of the Ancestor trilogy, if you were intrigued by that series/world/story then a must read!

[Macros]

AFAIK Mark has explicitly said Abeth isn't earth. I could be wrong on that.

[champ]

Macros, on 20 May 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

AFAIK Mark has explicitly said Abeth isn't earth. I could be wrong on that.

If that is the case then...

Spoiler

How did man evolve to become the Tribes... at the end of Broken/RedQueen the Wheel is fixed and magic stopped from leaking into the world.


Is it purely length of time then that does it?


As the Tribes have some freaky powers...

edit


Also I need to go back and reread the Zin and Mokka parts there is more there...

This post has been edited by champ: 20 May 2020 - 08:26 PM

[Macros]

No no.

It's not earth.

[Macros]

Mark Lawrence, on 14 April 2019 - 04:29 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 14 April 2019 - 04:20 PM, said:

Are the Ancestor books set in the same universe as Broken Earth?

No.

Just to put this to bed for you

[Imperial Historian]

Have you read the latest book mac? Because certain character appearances in it suggest mark was lying.

[champ]

Macros, on 20 May 2020 - 09:37 PM, said:

Mark Lawrence, on 14 April 2019 - 04:29 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 14 April 2019 - 04:20 PM, said:

Are the Ancestor books set in the same universe as Broken Earth?

No.

Just to put this to bed for you

Imperial Historian, on 20 May 2020 - 10:05 PM, said:

Have you read the latest book mac? Because certain character appearances in it suggest mark was lying.

Aye, the only way that would make sense is if Mark had a Multiverse rather than a Universe.

[Macros]

Haven't read girl and the stars yet.
If you mean taproot, he was mentioned in holy sister and Mark put it to bed then.

I'll happily revisit this statement with egg on my face after reading girl

[Macros]

Finished girl and the stars.

That ending, my my what a bastard.

Regards the shared universe

Spoiler

Taproot Taproot.

Mark have you been lying to us? Is Taproot your Hoid?

[champ]

Macros, on 31 May 2020 - 01:33 PM, said:

Finished girl and the stars.

That ending, my my what a bastard.

Regards the shared universe

Spoiler

Taproot Taproot.

Mark have you been lying to us? Is Taproot your Hoid?

Author shenanigans haha...


Regarding the ending:

Spoiler

It's got to be the fierce little ninja killing machine that pulls that ending out of the bag... god I hate cliffhangers heh...

Regarding the shared universe... and do not read this if you haven't read every single one of Mark's books...

Spoiler

He clearly is the equivlent version...


We meet his character in The Broken Empire, Dr Taproot and we learn his first name is Elias... then we see more of him in The Red Queen's War.


In the Book of the Ancestor we come across an AI that states "I amTaproot." Nona wonders whether the voice is human, whether an Ancestor who travelled to Abeth on the ships that sailed between the stars, or one of the Missing who had already left before they even arrived...


In the Impossible Times we meet a Dr Root... Dr Elias Root... who is learning all about time travel...


And then he's back to his watch me goodness in The Girl and the Stars.


So that is where the question comes in...


Did he just hop in his time machine and that remains in one place - Earth - and wait for the years to pass by with Earth becoming Abeth or did he travel far into the future and hop on one of the ships when he had a chance and come to Abeth that way...

This post has been edited by champ: 31 May 2020 - 02:38 PM

[RACHEL]

I finished The Girl and the stars over the weekend and I loved it. I do have some thoughts on Taproot and Abeth.

Spoiler

This is spoilers for the Broken Empire series.



At the end of the trilogy we find out that the Jorg telling the story is not Jorg himself (as he is dead) but a computer simulation of him. Jorg had spent enough time with the eyepiece and or the builders technology for the technology/ computer to upload his simulation/ personality or whatever you want to call it.

Abeth is not Earth. Taproot is a computer simulation/ total conscious uploaded in the computer thing just like Jorg. In TGATS Erris tells Yaz that some of the missing chose to live in actual buildings just like humans did. Erris also tells her that Taproot was ancient before he even arrived on Abeth.

The missing are just Artificial Intelligence based on real humans. I am assuming that is what Erris meant when he told Yaz some still lived like humans. Their conscious inhabited a body just like Erris' because they wanted a real world feel to their life and not just the virtual one.

After the Broken Empire books humans regain technology, or at least some do and many upload into virtual living. These upgraded AI/humans and their helpers (maybe actual humans and or artificial bodies like Erris') traveled to Abeth and possibly other worlds. The four groups that then beached upon Abeth are either aliens, humans from colony worlds that had tech just not as advanced as the missing/ AI, or humans from colony worlds that had left Earth before the nuclear war that broke the empire before Jorgs time.

This is the way I interpreted things. I may not be remembering broken empire very well though so if I am wrong I would like to know. As far as the missing and where they went I am assuming that they were originally human or chose to live as humanlike as possible but at some point they all chose to completely upload into virtual world and at that level of intelligence/ technology they traveled/ emailed/ downloaded/ whatever off of Abeth or got lost in virtual world. I do not have a theory on the shiphearts/ stars beyond the fact that they are technology. They allow the quantals to approach the level of the missing, but I have no clue how they can fracture your personality into the bad parts/ demons, or how those demons travel through the ice and are able to inhabit other bodies.

Anyway those are my scattered thoughts.

[Mark Lawrence]

RACHEL, on 08 June 2020 - 07:10 PM, said:

I finished The Girl and the stars over the weekend and I loved it. I do have some thoughts on Taproot and Abeth.

Hooray! Great to hear.

[champ]

RACHEL, on 08 June 2020 - 07:10 PM, said:

I finished The Girl and the stars over the weekend and I loved it. I do have some thoughts on Taproot and Abeth.

Spoiler

This is spoilers for the Broken Empire series.


At the end of the trilogy we find out that the Jorg telling the story is not Jorg himself (as he is dead) but a computer simulation of him. Jorg had spent enough time with the eyepiece and or the builders technology for the technology/ computer to upload his simulation/ personality or whatever you want to call it.

Abeth is not Earth. Taproot is a computer simulation/ total conscious uploaded in the computer thing just like Jorg. In TGATS Erris tells Yaz that some of the missing chose to live in actual buildings just like humans did. Erris also tells her that Taproot was ancient before he even arrived on Abeth.


The missing are just Artificial Intelligence based on real humans. I am assuming that is what Erris meant when he told Yaz some still lived like humans. Their conscious inhabited a body just like Erris' because they wanted a real world feel to their life and not just the virtual one.

After the Broken Empire books humans regain technology, or at least some do and many upload into virtual living. These upgraded AI/humans and their helpers (maybe actual humans and or artificial bodies like Erris') traveled to Abeth and possibly other worlds. The four groups that then beached upon Abeth are either aliens, humans from colony worlds that had tech just not as advanced as the missing/ AI, or humans from colony worlds that had left Earth before the nuclear war that broke the empire before Jorgs time.


This is the way I interpreted things. I may not be remembering broken empire very well though so if I am wrong I would like to know. As far as the missing and where they went I am assuming that they were originally human or chose to live as humanlike as possible but at some point they all chose to completely upload into virtual world and at that level of intelligence/ technology they traveled/ emailed/ downloaded/ whatever off of Abeth or got lost in virtual world. I do not have a theory on the shiphearts/ stars beyond the fact that they are technology. They allow the quantals to approach the level of the missing, but I have no clue how they can fracture your personality into the bad parts/ demons, or how those demons travel through the ice and are able to inhabit other bodies.
Anyway those are my scattered thoughts.

With regards to the spoilers...

Spoiler

I am with you in that Taproot is now a ghost in the machine / simulation similar to how we find Jorg… even with his time travelling antics I think we are too far in the future for him to be anything but... plus we see this in Holy Sister, his machine response, "I am Taproot."


I like your thoughts on the Missing, with the line that some liked to live like humans, I took that in the way that they chose to live a mortal life with limited tech but I can see what you mean too. I just don't know how much they would be interested in returning to a mortal life/world or whether they even could after they have uploaded themselves.


I might be remembering this wrong but I think we see with Zole the purification process that the Missing went through. Nona wonders whether Zole is less human or more human after the process and that she was likely to be off to join the Missing... it just seemed to suggest that once you have gone through the purification process you are less likely to feel any connection with the mortal world any more...


But ultimately I just don't see how it all connects, Earth, Taproot, Abeth, the Missing and the four Tribes...


It seems a big coincidence that if all are human that they then all end up on the same planet that is Abeth after travelling the stars…


And how did the Tribes evolve to have their powers, could it simply be something like DNA manipulation with advanced tech or are they alien...


After the Taproot connection there is also the second connection between Earth and Abeth taken from Emperor of Thorns...

Quote

'My retinue are the guests of Lord Congrieve at his country estate, investigating reports of irregularities at the Sisters of Mercy, a nunnery with a chequered history.'

How many - what must be - thousands of years are they in the future but the name still remains or has carried to a new planet...


So aye, I'm still at a loss... scattered indeed haha...

[T77]

Read Mortal Engines by Philip Reeve. I saw the movie and enjoyed it and saw it was based on the books, so I decided to check them out. It was very enjoyable, very similar to the movie with some extras. I will read the last three.

[Aptorian]

You may have ventured into the wrong forum T77.

[Macros]

Wrong thread at least.

[Slow Ben]

Glad you enjoyed it though.

[RACHEL]

@Champ

Spoiler

I like your thoughts on the Missing, with the line that some liked to live like humans, I took that in the way that they chose to live a mortal life with limited tech but I can see what you mean too. I just don't know how much they would be interested in returning to a mortal life/world or whether they even could after they have uploaded themselves.


So Erris built himself a body that looks completely human but is stronger/ faster ect. I realize that he is a prisoner of the city/ computer and his body is to allow him to escape but it also lets him "live" again. I assume that as awesome as it is to be a ghost in the machine you miss out on a lot of things. I am assuming some of the missing wanted to have basically invincible bodies to "live" in so they could feel the sun/ wind/ rain, experience eating/ running/ jumping/ possibly even sex. I am also assuming that the missing would still need to load themselves into a body for things like repairs.