[Malaclypse]

@Hoosier: I certainly will, Assail has not commanded my attention, sadly, so this will be my go-to on my phone when I'm idle at work

Waiting for polishgenius' reply, I will say that there have been some authors that have had brilliant debuts but then the quality drops off sharply - Scott Lynch, Douglas Hulick, Joe Abercrombie. And the rest is just absolute pants imo. Wossname with the 8 races he never explained and the hackneyed plot? Puh-lease motherfucker, that was rubbish and Sanderson - look, Mistborn was a triumph but nothing else I've read of his is remotely tolerable.

I'm a big fan of Rothfuss though

ETA: I should mention Anthony Ryan, who is kind of a guilty pleasure for me, but I do not imagine it's interesting for the genre.

This post has been edited by Malaclypse: 27 September 2014 - 09:29 AM

[polishgenius]

Malaclypse, on 27 September 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

polishgenius, on 26 September 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

You can get it on Kindle in the UK. Not available in... wherever you are (Canada?), then?

OK so I've downloaded Blade of Tyshalle, Heroes Die, Caine's Law and Caine Black Knife - does that about cover it?

Yep, that's all of them. Heroes Die is first, in case the blurbs don't make that clear.

Quote

you want to say the genre is in great health so, and I'm not intending to pick a fight for its own sake here (though I do sometimes do that , name some of the authors that make you feel this way?

I already know you don't agree with me, for various reasons, on Mieville or Abraham (or Butcher, though that's a whole different thing because I totally see all the criticisms there, I just find it too much fun to care). Not sure where you stand on Bakker.

Beyond those more-discussed names, though, there's a whole bunch of guys who don't seem to get quite as much discussion (certainly around here) who I think are right up to the standards of anyone:

Nnedi Okorafor - 'Who Fears Death' and 'Lagoon'. Superb African-set fantasies that tackle the genre in a whole different way to even the New Weird authors that get major airplay. Who Fears Death is a book that's just stuck with me since I read it a year and a half ago.

Felix Gilman - I described him in the reading topic after his most recent book as a 'happier China Mieville', and while that's a cheap-and-easy comparison that does a disservice to just how inventive in his own right Gilman is, it does more-or-less give you the idea of the mood and settings- a fascination with roughly late-19th-century corresponding settings, with an air of delight and joy about the whole thing.

Elizabeth Bear, who I discovered last year and whose work I have been voraciously devouring since. The Eternal Sky trilogy is her most recent work and appears to have garnered her a bit more attention - I read the first but after getting bored waiting for the other two to come down to a price I can justify in my present state (they still haven't ) I went back and smashed my way through her post-apocalyptic Norse-cyberpunk noir series, The Edda of Burdens. Completely different (Eternal Sky is a much more traditional fantasy, though in an Asian-inspired-setting), and going in directions I wasn't expecting, but great.


Catherynne M Valente, who I won't go into too much detail describing- she writes in roughly the same thematic ballpark as Neil Gaiman- but who I'll say is maybe the best prose artist in the genre right now.

Jeff VanDerMeer, a master of the weird and the other candidate to that last title.



There's others to mention: Hal Duncan, Lauren Beukes, Kate Griffin/Claire North (same person), Samit Basu, maybe Martha Wells (only read one of her books so far), Mary Gentle (Ash is just staggering), Nick Harkaway... but, ya know, things to do. I think the above is enough to be getting on with for now.

[Macros]

While I'm a huge fan of Marks work I think a sub forum would he superfluous at the minute, yes he's into his second series but the one thread we currently have is more than adequate I feel until a bit more comes out, at least a second book in the next series, or a few more short stories.
Like them or not Mal you have to acknowledge that Sanderson and butcher have a shit load of material out there to discuss, and from various universes as well so there will be a multitude of threads in their forum. GRRM, its there because of the tv show Imo as many readers here have thoroughly lost interest in westeros after the last abortion of a book.

So, I don't think so right now no, but if he continues to produce at the same rate and of the same quality then certainly in the future

[Malaclypse]

ETA: Fuck you Maccy! The reply below is meant for polishgenius.

Wow! thanks so much - I also love Ash but it was so long ago and I'm not aware of anything else she's done.

Re: Mieville - I dunno, I loved Perdido Street Station and just didn't love anything else of his. I feel like he's just fucking around with ideas, banking on his admittedly immense talent but it falls flat for me.

Bakker - well, I just didn't see any point in continuing with it, the repressed sexual elements were just eyebleeding for me and the main character knows everything so...

Abraham! that's his name - that stuff is just turgid crap imo

VanDerMeer - I started 'The City of Saints and Madmen' whilst on holiday and quickly put it aside, just because I wasn't in the mood for that creepy Gormenghast vibe. I may get back to it at some point.

The others I have not heard of and will be checking out ASAP so heartfelt thanks for that!

This post has been edited by Malaclypse: 27 September 2014 - 09:40 AM

[Malaclypse]

Macros, on 27 September 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

While I'm a huge fan of Marks work I think a sub forum would he superfluous at the minute, yes he's into his second series but the one thread we currently have is more than adequate I feel until a bit more comes out, at least a second book in the next series, or a few more short stories.
Like them or not Mal you have to acknowledge that Sanderson and butcher have a shit load of material out there to discuss, and from various universes as well so there will be a multitude of threads in their forum. GRRM, its there because of the tv show Imo as many readers here have thoroughly lost interest in westeros after the last abortion of a book.

So, I don't think so right now no, but if he continues to produce at the same rate and of the same quality then certainly in the future

more than adequate? how is it more than adequate? in what way does it exceed adequacy?

I want to talk about the exceedingly clever post-apocalyptic setting of the Thorns books, the magic, the effortless and powerful characterization, etc. so for me he deserves a subforum just because of the quality of his work which is not confined to a single book

[Silencer]

The only question that really matters is: how many threads specifically about the works in question currently exist on the site, that have received sufficient traffic to really warrant an entire subforum? (Bearing in mind that continued creation of subforums creates a clunky end-user experience and stratifies topics unnecessarily if not used correctly.)

I can't say as I know the answer to that question, given I don't delve into the Other Lit subforum very frequently unless it's a topic I'm already interested in. But if the answer is large enough, we can create a subforum. I'm guessing from the majority of responses in this thread, and D'rek's response in particular, that the answer is "not there yet".

Subforums aren't directly related to the quality or quantity of works a writer has produced - it's not a commentary on Lawrence's abilities to not provide a subforum, for example - it's about how much the community is talking about something. Frequency, quantity, and enthusiasm are all key reasons why an author might or might not get a subforum, imo. A lot of that has to do with the depth of discussion a given work (or works) allows for, and more complex/lengthy series or prolific writers tend to increase the amount of discussion possible.

I guess my point is, Mal - if you think he's that good and there's enough meat there for people to discuss, rather than suggesting the creation of a subforum, get more members to read the works in question, get them discussing on the site, and a subforum will come in due course.

Fair?

[Malaclypse]

Ah, satisfaction is described by forcing Silencer to compose one of his incredibly sensible posts. I can only agree

[Silencer]

Malaclypse, on 27 September 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Ah, satisfaction is described by forcing Silencer to compose one of his incredibly sensible posts. I can only agree

Well, someone's gotta be the sensible one around this place.

[Gnaw]

Silencer, on 27 September 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Malaclypse, on 27 September 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Ah, satisfaction is described by forcing Silencer to compose one of his incredibly sensible posts. I can only agree

Well, someone's gotta be the sensible one around this place.

Well that explains D'rek's promotion. Vengeance though?

[HoosierDaddy]

His wife threatened to beat up Silencer. Credible threat.

[Malaclypse]

Gnaw, on 27 September 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

Silencer, on 27 September 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Malaclypse, on 27 September 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Ah, satisfaction is described by forcing Silencer to compose one of his incredibly sensible posts. I can only agree

Well, someone's gotta be the sensible one around this place.

Well that explains D'rek's promotion. Vengeance though?

D'rek for me has the amazing gift of consistently getting everything wrong with good intentions, it's fucking weird.

[Gabriele]

Maybe a Grimdark subforum for Lawrence, Abercrombie and their ilk?

[Coco with marshmallows]

Gabriele, on 27 September 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

Maybe a Grimdark subforum for Lawrence, Abercrombie and their ilk?

Grimdark subforum?

Then we need a subforum for CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!

[Aptorian]

The problem with making any kind of subforum, like Silencer mentions above, is how much traffic it will see and how much content is produced or posted here on the forum.

The reason why subforums have been relevant for Butcher, Martin, Sanderson, etc. is because they are prolific, have a large volume of works to discuss and maybe the most important part, there is a lot of buzz surrounding them. Lots of news articles, interviews, Q&As, etc.

If your subject can be covered by one megathread, like Ye Big Movie or the Caine thread, and the discussions aren't constantly going into several different directions including spoilers, then it probably doesn't need a subforum.

Which begs the question: How much attention would a Lawrence or a Grimdark subforum see?

This post has been edited by Apt: 27 September 2014 - 08:29 PM

[polishgenius]

If this forum perpetuates the nonsensical subgenre name that is Grimdark officially, I'm going to be very cross indeed.

I reckon there could be plenty of space for such a discussion - especially what with all the new writers constantly popping up in the field, and you can have plenty of talk about comparisons and contrasts between existing writers. Just... call it something else. Please.

[Coco with marshmallows]

polishgenius, on 27 September 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

If this forum perpetuates the nonsensical subgenre name that is Grimdark officially, I'm going to be very cross indeed.

I reckon there could be plenty of space for such a discussion - especially what with all the new writers constantly popping up in the field, and you can have plenty of talk about comparisons and contrasts between existing writers. Just... call it something else. Please.

Or at least refer it back to its origins by tying it to 40K like I did.

[Macros]

We have enough sub forums as it is. Creating a generic 'new authors of darker gritty fantasy' is silly as well, who arbitrates what authors qualify? What will become of other literature? Does it become a recommendation forum and an entire mini site unto itself with 30 sub forums?

[Abyss]

I'll address the subforum question.... Butcher got one because we had and still have an abundance of Dresden and Alera threads and new ones every time he writes a book, which he does yearly. Jordan got one for WoT because again, thread count. Sanderson was added into it when he took over WoT and he's prolific enough to warrant it continue. GRRM... Well, not prolific, gods no, but even so, lots of threads and the GoT show makes up for it.
I'll note that once upon a time we had Bakker and Morgan subforums, and both were wrapped back into the main otherlit forum because of a lack of activity. Dead sub forums are boring, generally ignored and clutter up the place. And for the record Morgan regularly stops in here too and we love him for it.
Lawrence is doing great work, so is Abercrombie, but do the search and you'll find a fairly limited number of dedthreads, mostly sinking down except a few that are current, active and fun. If that changes, hey, nothing is off the table.

[Coco with marshmallows]

oooh that takes me back.

remember when Sanderson posted here and Gothos (I think) told him that Mistborn was a bit crap?

[Aptorian]

It is.