[Aptorian]

philospher77 said:

I thought that the bit of desert-trudging after Y'ghatan was a little unrealistic. Here you have several people who have just been through a major fire (so at least first degree burns, if not some second/third degrees), with very little clothing and no water, in a desert. Which means that the sun is going to be making all those burns worse, and one thing burns do is weep, which is going to make the lack of water a major issue. I'm still wondering why Quick Ben didn't take pity on them and warren ahead to get some supplies and help them out after he saw the state that they were in.

But, but... that's the whole point!

The whole Y'Ghatan fight was of little significance to the overall story. It was about the ordeal the unit had to go through to come out changed. It's how the soldiers become "The Bonehunters" - Hence the name of the book.

Just like the Bridgeburners. They had to walk across an entire holy desert, just to catch Quick and that changed them just like it changed Quick and Kalam. The Bridgeburners shouldn't had survived, they should have died of exhaustion and dehydration.

Same with the Bonehunters. Running through a burning city (with a fire elemental loose?) digging through endless darkness and caves, getting smeared with magical honey, walking back to the army.

Actually I think that the bonehunters ritual of change was a lot more powerfull emotionally and a lot darker.

[philospher77]

Apt said:

But, but... that's the whole point!

The whole Y'Ghatan fight was of little significance to the overall story. It was about the ordeal the unit had to go through to come out changed. It's how the soldiers become "The Bonehunters" - Hence the name of the book.

Just like the Bridgeburners. They had to walk across an entire holy desert, just to catch Quick and that changed them just like it changed Quick and Kalam. The Bridgeburners shouldn't had survived, they should have died of exhaustion and dehydration.

Same with the Bonehunters. Running through a burning city (with a fire elemental loose?) digging through endless darkness and caves, getting smeared with magical honey, walking back to the army.

Actually I think that the bonehunters ritual of change was a lot more powerfull emotionally and a lot darker.

Yeah, I get that bit. What I don't get is that, once Apsalar, Ben, and Kalam join them, they walk along for a bit, and then someone looks around and says "Hey... we can send someone ahead on Apsalar's horse to notify the others" and that isn't countered by someone saying "Wait... Ben's here, he can do it easier." It just seemed illogical to me. The rest were a bit heat-addled, but Ben, Apsalar, and Kalam were in much better condition, and should have been able to come up with that on their own.

[philospher77]

I did think of one more thing which I find a little annoying. That's when SE deliberately withholds information that should be known to the reader. I understand that a lot of the fun of this book is putting the pieces together, but it's cheating when two characters (say Paran and Hood) are in a conversation, and you are getting a play-by-play description of the scene, and then Paran says "Name what it is you want, and I'll do it" (paraphrased... don't have the book with me right now), and the response is "So Hood told him." Given the set-up of the scene, the only reason we aren't told that Hood wants a perfect red rose from the garden of the Beast is because SE wants us to guess what the answer is. He also did it with the Jhagut (or is it Jhag... I always forget which are the halfbreeds) woman and Karsa, when she asks Karsa if he's ever wondered what the other half is. "And then she told him." If you don't want to give details, then gloss over the entire conversation. For example, Karsa could reflect later on "the information revealed to him by the Jhagut after he released her", which would let us know that he knows more than we do, without making it obvious that the information is being deliberately withheld.

[Folken]

and ruin the fun of having discussions on this board? hardly...besides the karsa conversation u cite as an example was a given. As for the Hood one...well I dont believe we're supposed to know about it as of yet. Soon though, said info is held back so the coming novels can be written without already having given away too much

[Hume]

You know whats real funny..

Some of stuff that we have learned in the newest book but opens up dozens more questions may not be answered for another 3/4 books again ..

[philospher77]

Jen said:

and ruin the fun of having discussions on this board? hardly...besides the karsa conversation u cite as an example was a given. As for the Hood one...well I dont believe we're supposed to know about it as of yet. Soon though, said info is held back so the coming novels can be written without already having given away too much

Let me be clear... I'm not objecting to having the information withheld. I am objecting to the extremely clunky way he did it. It's when he spells out the minutest details of the conversation, but then when you get to the one piece of information, the tape recorder cuts out. Either the reader is a fly on the wall, in which case he would hear that bit as well, or else the reader isn't, and the entire conversation should only be alluded to. So this is more a critique of SE's writing style than of the books.

[Illuyankas]

I don't mind it, really. Sometimes it's enough to make me want to murder SE, like with Hood's answer, other times it's a subtle way of telling you the information, like with Karsa and Aramala.

[Folken]

You get used to it, to be honest. Besides, we usually get a sensible answer on the forums sooner or later anyways so its not that much of a handicap...I mean this whole Hood business is still very "stupid" imo

I think the one that really pissed me off the most and to this day bugs me a bit is the whole Brood and Rake conversation in Memories of Ice. There it was just "oh for the love of all that is holy just tell us!" But Memories of Ice seems to be only novel that had an excess of information being held back in the manner you speak of. Other than that...BH had like 1, maybe 2, instances of that. I'm sure you can live with that;)

[polishgenius]

Actually, I think the way SE does it is less clunky than Karsa suddenly later going 'hmm, what a random piece of information that was, it was really important, but I'm not going to think what it was because the reader's in my head right now, and is not meant to know. Hey there, btw'.
And the Paran/Hood scene - we were discovering QB in the bodies while Hood said it, hence we missed it... serves us right for not paying due attention, hey?
>_>

It can be frustrating, though if he didn't do it this forum wouldn't be half as busy.

[Aptorian]

I often wonder if half of the new stuff SE is writing, doesn't come from the random crazy theories and explanations we come up with in here.

He's harvesting the random brain farts of a our addiction

Put that in the crazy theories

[Thelomen Toblakai]

Apt i love that idea! Sounds so cool. Lets sue if someone ever see's there plot in the books. (Just for the record im joking here, dont throw me off the site lol)

[Illuyankas]

You forget, Abyss had something with the Mules...

[Trotts]

when you list leoman, what do you mean?

i thought it was pretty obvious he didnt care at all for the religious aspect of the rebellion but was more then willing to sacrifice as many zealots as he could.

now dunsparrow, that was a surprize!

[polishgenius]

I'm sure both the Mules of Darkness and Greyfrog's eating habits are based on Abyss.

[drinksinbars]

philospher77 said:

I did think of one more thing which I find a little annoying. That's when SE deliberately withholds information that should be known to the reader. I understand that a lot of the fun of this book is putting the pieces together, but it's cheating when two characters (say Paran and Hood) are in a conversation, and you are getting a play-by-play description of the scene, and then Paran says "Name what it is you want, and I'll do it" (paraphrased... don't have the book with me right now), and the response is "So Hood told him." Given the set-up of the scene, the only reason we aren't told that Hood wants a perfect red rose from the garden of the Beast is because SE wants us to guess what the answer is. He also did it with the Jhagut (or is it Jhag... I always forget which are the halfbreeds) woman and Karsa, when she asks Karsa if he's ever wondered what the other half is. "And then she told him." If you don't want to give details, then gloss over the entire conversation. For example, Karsa could reflect later on "the information revealed to him by the Jhagut after he released her", which would let us know that he knows more than we do, without making it obvious that the information is being deliberately withheld.

dude... she was trying to get in karsa's pants:)