[Illuyankas]

I figured he'd appreciate that the best character's moment of weirdness is only temporary.

[Andorion]

One point before I start Gathering Storm: Who is the old guy Mats got tagging along? Noal something or the other? At one point he said he is related to Jaim Farstrider, but from all the stuff he keeps on about, is he actually Jaim himself? That would give a distinctly Fisher Kel Tath feel to the character.

Also, who was the mysterious man who appeared during Rands battle with Sammael? I just realised that this was never explained. And I still don't know who killed Asmodean.

[amphibian]

Noal is the old guy tagging along with Mat and eventually you find out more of his backstory.

I dunno the rest, but there's good odds that if you read ahead, you'll find out more.

[Illuyankas]

Let's just say in answer to your questions that my favourite actor in the Avengers is Mark RAFOlo

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 31 October 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

I believe the 3rd guy was Slayer but I'm not 100% after this long.

You mean you haven't figured out the culprit in Asmo whacking yet??? Har har lol wink wink

Illuyankas, on 31 October 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

Let's just say in answer to your questions that my favourite actor in the Avengers is Mark RAFOlo

Briar King, on 31 October 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

I to remember being confused by the 3rd guy when I read.

I don't recommend you trying to find out online cause I'm trying and there some massive spoilers on each of the links.

Sigh... ok. The problem with playing detective in RJ is that whenevr you try to do a thorough reread to find clues, you get swamped by all the fashion descriptions.... so much fashion description....

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 31 October 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

RJ always said it was SO easy to figure out who did it...yeah I'm sure it was for him since he wrote it but for everyone else...nope. Lots of people say they had it pegged but I think it's mostly BS unless they just randomly chose right. But I ll stop there. Man your lucky you got a good forum that actually cares if you get spoiled...

Oh I know I have an excellent forum to write in. Still no closer to figuring it out though.

[Andorion]

15 chapters into The Gathering Storm.

Sanderson's mark is quite clear form the prologue onwards. There are no more descriptions of clothes, decorations etc. There is no more useless authoritarianism. You can actually understand the characters decisons using reason.

Of all the PoVs Egwenes is the best and the most powerful. Sanderson continues Jordans good work from KoD and so Egwene is still in the Tower, undermining Elaida. But under Sanderson the whole process is more businesslike, so Egwene points out the inanity of internal poitics and power struggles if the White Tower was broken apart and then overwhelmed by Tarmon Gaidon. This is a larger consciousness that has been lacking in previous books. Its addition makes the books more internally consistent.

Gawyns PoV was a surprise, and after I read a bit, a welcome surprise. This character who had been acting like a grade A moron since the fifth book and whose development arc was stuck permanently in whining mode, finally is kicked off his ass. The question of loyalty is brought up, and finally it seems like he is actually doing something.

Siuan long lost romantic attachment to Gareth Bryne si finally pulled out and made a major plot point. Why RJ raised this only to bury it totally in the earlier books I don't know, but Sanderson seems dtermined to go places with it.

And then we come to Perrin, who now that he finally ahd Faile back, is in an identity crisis. You would have thought that making an alliance with the Seanchan, destroying the Shaido as a credible threat, breaking the prophets followers, succesfully rescuing all the prisoners, he would be happy. But nooo. The self pity is nauseating. Finally he reaches a conclusion that Rand needs him. Yes he does! Thats why you came out of Two Rivers again in the first place!

Failes's little assasin storyline with the prophet on the other hand went well. Somebody was going to have to do something about that, and it was done.

So in genral, uptil now I would call Sandersons intervention a big success. However I have not read Mat yet, so that PoV remains to be seen. If Sanderson has a weakness, its that occasionally he rehashes past events in PoVs. In the 12th book of a 14 book series, this is unnecessary.

[Andorion]

An additional comment.

Does it seem that Sanderson is speaking through Egwene? One big characterestic of this book is that a lot of the things that were irritating, frustrating etc. get resolved or, are finally remarked upon as needing resolution, the biggest example being the disunity among the Aes Sedai. Egwene, and to a lesser exten Siuan ar every vocal about this. Now what struck me was that was this only Egwene's character viewpoint, or is this Sanderson's indirect critique of RJ and his bogged down writing? I mean it did not really make sense for all the Aes Sedai to be a disunited, bickering crowd, its quite implausible in the long term. A lot of the problems I had with the constant politicking, the total blindness to larger issues get addressed by Egwene. When she is asked how the Aes Sedai should have dealt with the Dragon, her more subtle and diplomatic plan was roughly what I had initially imagined the Tower would do. While its immensely satisfying to see this in print, I cant help thinknig that Sanderson had the same problems and he is using Egwene to express his frustrations with RJs earlier approach.

Has Sanderson written/commented about this anywhere? I am afraid to do google searches because of Spoilers.

Another good thing about Sandersons approach is that he utilises the hitherto dull times, like when somebody is doing some menial housework like task to carry the narrative forward. Under RJ a para on laundry would be just that: laundry. The worst and most blatant case was when Faile was with the Shaido and there was a whole para on soap-substitutes and the importance of vinegar. But in this book, he uses Suian doing Gareth Brynes laundry fo rsome excellent back and forth which brought about excellent character progression.

[Macros]

how does RJ hold up on the lesbian front?

[HiddenOne]

Macros, on 24 October 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nyneave is my favourite because I like to burn myself with matches
And cut my self
And punch myself in the balls
And pull out my nose hairs
And gouge my own eyes


Yes that's a list of things Id rather do than have to listen to her bitching and watching her tug her braid.
Bet she would give a mean hand job

HAHAHAHAHA

[Andorion]

Finished The Gathering Storm after an express read, one that kept me up all night. One of the best books in the series, if not the best.

Regarding Mat: Turning him into a wisecracking comic relief character is deplorable. mat was the most dynamic character of WoT, unpredictable, funny, effective and decisive. In this book he does practically nothing and his entire group has been distorted. I don't think Sanderson understands Mat properly.

But the lions share of the book belongs to Egwene and Rand. The Seanchan attack, Egwene fights, the Tower stands. The biggest WTF moment was probably Verin. I remember being worried about her in the Great Hunt, but ever since, I kind of got used to her. Did not see that coming. Egwene is Amyrlin, without any dispute, now of course it remains to be seen what she does with her power. For the big question is definitely the Dragon Reborn.

Rand actually scared me in this book. He basically went of the deep-end, balefiring an entire fortress. This was the logical end of where his character development was going, but still....the encounter with Semirhage, the embracing of the True Power..... how did he do that? Semirhage thought she had been betrayed by the Dark Lord, but why would he do such a thing? Was it an attempt corrupt the Dragon? Also it seems that Lewis Therin was able to bock the Bore by touching the Dark Lord with Saidin, whcih was how it was tainted in the first place. So what can Rand do about it? use the True Power? Interesting problem.
That last encounter with Tam, and I actually thought he would destroy Ebou Dhar. He seemed to have gotten something of himself back on Dragonmount, but now how will others, his followers react to him? Min should be able to sense the change, but Cadsuane needs to hold back now.

On a side note, somebody needs to slap some sense into Gawyn . He still can't accept Egwene is Amyrlin? What she should do is bundle him off to Elayne. On the plus side, Tam knows Morgase is with Perrin, now if they can arrange a Trakand reunion, then maybe Gawyn will start acting like an adult. Seriously how stupid can one person be?

I was kind of hoping that Siuan would be Keeper, but Egwene was still pretty mad, but now that she has bonded Bryne, things should be interesting.

I am really looking forward to starting the next book. An hour to eat, and I probably will start it. I just hope Sanderson fixes Mat later.

[acesn8s]

The Verin swerve was epic.

BS is able to dial in a little bit more on Mat, but I found his character was the one that most suffered. I personally think that a lot of Mat was RJ. I could see RJ growing up a wise-ass country boy more so than BS.

[Andorion]

Finished Towers of Midnight. Read through the day and well into the night, but the book is done. Feeling a bit woozy though.

ToM is essentially the wrapping up and mopping up of Perrin, Galad, Gawyn and to some extent Mat.

I had a few doubts as I realised that this was going to be a manily Perrin dominated book. The man has serious identity issues. But Sandersondid get around to resolving these issues specifically his leadership phobia. With the wolf area resolved, and Perrin convinced that he is not going to wolf out on everybody etc. he finally calms down and finds he can make power-weapons, something that would have been castly useful if discovered 2-3 books earlier.

I was rather interested to see how Sanderson handled the Whitecloaks as so far they had been the definition of useless. As it turns out, he doesn't really handle them. Galad amtures a bit, as now he is at least thinking there are choice beyond white/black etc. Whitecloaks continue to be useless. In fact going by the fight description, they are not even that good in battle. The Two Rivers people fought better. Why do they exist again?

The Trakand reunion was something I was really looking forward to, I was half expecting Elayne to appoint Morgase as Regent in Cairhien, but it still turned out quite well.

The resident idiot Gawyn finally does something useful. His battle was cool, and at least now he is no longer behaving like a jealous 14 year old.

Elayne's resolution of the Two Rivers issue was still too rocky fo rmy liking. Andor has no claim to their loyalty. IN severla generations the area never saw Andoran administration, tax collectors, anything. To most residents Andor was a foreign country. Then the Trollocs came and they defended themselves and elevated their saviour and chief warlord to Lord position. Andor should be ashamed, not angry.

Mat makes a substantial recovery in this book. He deals with the Gholam, gets Andor to start manufacturing artillery, and then there's his rescue of Moiraine. That sequece was a bit confusing for me, but Mat did get them through. Far better than TGS.

Aviendha was possibly the most shocking PoV. The Aiel future is bleak. I long argued that the Seanchan pose an existential threat to everything, including all channellers. What is to be done? I wonder whether all the questions will be resolved in a Memory of Light because, even if they somehow manage to persuade Tuon, this slavery issue is at the heart of Seanchan culture. One political decison won't change that. That Suldam revelation could be staggering, but for it to have full effect it would need to have very convincing, very widespread broadcast.

My main issue with this book is Rand. I understand he finally overcame his problems, integrated Lewis Therin, achieved peace of mind etc. but it seems to come with an increas ein the magnitude and diversity of his abilities so vast that it makes him a God. he can literally cause new and better harvests to happen. He can unrot rotted grain. And as for his battle power, judging by the battle of Maradon, its increased many times in orders of magnitude. In Malazan terms I would compare him to a fully unleashed Draconus. Is this a case of an overpowered protagonist?

I think I will be taking a small break, even though ToM did end on somewhat of a cliffhanger. My eyes are protesting a bit and I think I need some sleep.

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 02 November 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

My god you read both massive BS bks in basically 2 days??? Shit man.

This is the moment that most people started referring to Rand as Jesus Rand and it's obvious why.

What did you find confusing about Mat rescue?

On a side note it took me 11 days to read ToM.

Regarding Mat, I am still not entirely sure what the Aelfinn and the Ealfinn were and how they fit into the WoT universe. Also I felt that Mat wasn't reacting as much to the loss of an eye as I would have expected him to.

Yeah these were two crazy days. Cant remember the last time I did something like this.

[Cause]

Andorion, on 02 November 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:

Elayne's resolution of the Two Rivers issue was still too rocky fo rmy liking. Andor has no claim to their loyalty. IN severla generations the area never saw Andoran administration, tax collectors, anything. To most residents Andor was a foreign country. Then the Trollocs came and they defended themselves and elevated their saviour and chief warlord to Lord position. Andor should be ashamed, not angry.

This is a serious problem for me in these books. I can't tell if RJ/Sanderson are just playing it to straight for me to tell but I never get the impression they are trying to highlight such hypocrisy to make a point. Instead it just seems to be how the characters are. If there is a point he makes it far too often and not one person in the world seems to have a single iota of introspection. The Aes Sedai 'servants to all' never serve anyone but themselves. Nynaeve I think is the only one to ever even acknowledge this. The rest even Moraine to a degree play politics even as the world burns. They fight not just to save the world, but to be in charge of what's left. Its quite a contrast to the borderlanders who are essentially samurai and who seem to live the ideal of servants to all. We have Elayne and the Andor issue as you point out. We also have the Elayne and the way she treats Mat and The Band of the Red Hand in Ebou Dar issue. We have Cadsuane. We have Egwene as Amyrlin. We have the Wise ones. The books is either an incredibly subtle critique of hypocrisy and world politics or becomes one regardless/

Andorion, on 02 November 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:

My main issue with this book is Rand. I understand he finally overcame his problems, integrated Lewis Therin, achieved peace of mind etc. but it seems to come with an increas ein the magnitude and diversity of his abilities so vast that it makes him a God. he can literally cause new and better harvests to happen. He can unrot rotted grain. And as for his battle power, judging by the battle of Maradon, its increased many times in orders of magnitude. In Malazan terms I would compare him to a fully unleashed Draconus. Is this a case of an overpowered protagonist?

I will say read and find out. I will also add the following spoiler tag for you to decide to read or not, it should not reveal anything from any book you have not read but maybe you want your thoughts to remain untainted till the end.

Spoiler

Rand's Soul is not the champion of the light, its the lynchpin upon which the world can turn. Remember he is the fisher king in the boardgame. Rand can be used by the light or the dark, he also has a choice but its not necessarily overly important. Rand fighting for the light can still cause enough damage if he behaves improperly to hand victory to the Dark one. Why Dark Rand was so dangerous. His ability to save crops etc than is not his use of the one power its rather an extension of his power as a taveren. The pattern is using him as the nexus to rewrite the pattern as it should be without the dark ones influence. The state of affairs of the world also mirror and affect this power, similar to how in book 2 Rands Battle with Forsaken mirrored the greater battle below.

[Andorion]

Quote

This is a serious problem for me in these books. I can't tell if RJ/Sanderson are just playing it to straight for me to tell but I never get the impression they are trying to highlight such hypocrisy to make a point. Instead it just seems to be how the characters are. If there is a point he makes it far too often and not one person in the world seems to have a single iota of introspection. The Aes Sedai 'servants to all' never serve anyone but themselves. Nynaeve I think is the only one to ever even acknowledge this. The rest even Moraine to a degree play politics even as the world burns. They fight not just to save the world, but to be in charge of what's left. Its quite a contrast to the borderlanders who are essentially samurai and who seem to live the ideal of servants to all. We have Elayne and the Andor issue as you point out. We also have the Elayne and the way she treats Mat and The Band of the Red Hand in Ebou Dar issue. We have Cadsuane. We have Egwene as Amyrlin. We have the Wise ones. The books is either an incredibly subtle critique of hypocrisy and world politics or becomes one regardless/

The constant bickering and politicking is a huge issue for me. But I found that to some extent in the Knife of Dreams and in the Gathering Storm, the character of Egwene was used by the authors to critique the selfish ineffectiveness of the Aes Sedai. In fact I think Sanderson uses Egwene to voice his own critiques of the series. But funnily enough I found that as soon as Egwene became Amyrlin formally, she started thinking in terms of 'dealing' with the Wise Ones, 'managing' the Dragon etc. Power corrupts.

[Abyss]

People forget that despite her other interests, Egwene was always loyal to the Aes Sedai once she joined.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 03 November 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

People forget that despite her other interests, Egwene was always loyal to the Aes Sedai once she joined.

Egwene was extremely loyal to the ideal of the Aes Sedai and the White Tower, Which is why she was so angry about the bickering and the politicking. She tried to reconcile the Sea Folk and the Wise Ones to the Aes Sedai, by reducing the Towers dominance on channelling. My point is that this critical view of Aes Sedai interference (often unwarranted, unwanted and domineering) reduced greatly once she was raised Amyrlin in the Tower.

Nynaeve is the bigger contrast. She was never awed by the Tower or its formalities. Her Test is the best example. She recognised that the test made very little sense as in the real world she would never react like that. She knows when the Aes Sedai are wrong and is not afraid to say it. Egwene knows when the Aes Sedai are wrong too, but later her reaction was tinged with too much reverence. I always felt that what the Tower needed was a healthy dose of iconoclasm.

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 03 November 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

So who's your fav Forsaken at this point? Male and female?

Female: Lanfear. Even though she didn't do anything for half the sries, when she was there, she was extremely dangerous.
Male: Moridin/Ishamael: Because he keeps on going crazy!

[Cause]

Andorion, on 03 November 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

Quote

This is a serious problem for me in these books. I can't tell if RJ/Sanderson are just playing it to straight for me to tell but I never get the impression they are trying to highlight such hypocrisy to make a point. Instead it just seems to be how the characters are. If there is a point he makes it far too often and not one person in the world seems to have a single iota of introspection. The Aes Sedai 'servants to all' never serve anyone but themselves. Nynaeve I think is the only one to ever even acknowledge this. The rest even Moraine to a degree play politics even as the world burns. They fight not just to save the world, but to be in charge of what's left. Its quite a contrast to the borderlanders who are essentially samurai and who seem to live the ideal of servants to all. We have Elayne and the Andor issue as you point out. We also have the Elayne and the way she treats Mat and The Band of the Red Hand in Ebou Dar issue. We have Cadsuane. We have Egwene as Amyrlin. We have the Wise ones. The books is either an incredibly subtle critique of hypocrisy and world politics or becomes one regardless/

The constant bickering and politicking is a huge issue for me. But I found that to some extent in the Knife of Dreams and in the Gathering Storm, the character of Egwene was used by the authors to critique the selfish ineffectiveness of the Aes Sedai. In fact I think Sanderson uses Egwene to voice his own critiques of the series. But funnily enough I found that as soon as Egwene became Amyrlin formally, she started thinking in terms of 'dealing' with the Wise Ones, 'managing' the Dragon etc. Power corrupts.

I was not sure if you had gone that far, yes it was incredibly disheartening to see Egwene go from a woman who exposes the Aes Sedai hypocrisy to one who suddenly lives it. Her sudden new viewpoint in how to deal with the Wise Ones is especially disgusting as she throws away all the ideals they taught her and now seems them as unruly children who need to be tied to the tower. I also want to slap her when she does not seem to realize that her believing she is a powerful Amyrlin is normal but surely rand is still just a 22 year old sheep herder who has learnt nothing is insulting.