[D'iversify]

Andorion, on 25 September 2014 - 02:44 AM, said:

One question: does Nynaeves victory over the Forsaken show she is actually equal in terms of raw power? Just having trouble believing that. Egeanin was interesting, though I thought they trusted her too easily.

The power of the Forsaken compared to Third Age channellers lies in their greater understanding of the One Power, not in their greater inherent ability to channel. Variation in abiliity to channel has not changed since the Age of Legends. Nynaeve is at the high end of inherent channelling capacity. So yes, in terms of raw ability, she can match the Forsaken. What she lacks is their knowledge and finesse when it comes ot manipulating the One Power.

[Andorion]

Few chapters into Fires of Heaven. One thing is bothering me, not just in this book, but this is a running theme through all the books I have read. Its the way RJ depicts his female characters. Practically in any/every chapter featuring Nynaeve/Elaine/Egwene/Aviendha and sometimes Moiraine, and from the 4th book Min, Siuian, Leane, one or more of the women will turn up nude/spend some time nude OR there will be references, discussion to tight-fitting, figure-hugging, revealing dresses. Sometimes this is necessary as per the plot, like Leane and Gareth Bryne (I am pretty sure one element of that scene found its way into a BBC Sherlock episode) But most of the time it feels gratuitous, unnecessary and irritating. I don't know if this is just a personal quirk I have, or is this a general problem. Would appreciate some comments from those who have already read the series.

Also how did Couladin get the Dragon marks if he did not enter Rhuidean? even if he did, he isn't the Dragon Reborn, so how??

[amphibian]

She's been on a bit of a hiatus for a while, but we have a member on here, Terez, who is not only the world's 4th biggest WoT fan, but is incredibly nice, patient and fully understanding of other people's perspective on it.

If she looks in, she may comment in this thread and be prepared for some serious thoroughness.

Anyways, she let me know that the women thing is a little bit of RJ's wish fulfillment getting onto the page. He was monogamous (and his wife his main editor), but probably had strong fantasies about a few more women being permanently in his life.

As for Couladin, I dunno. Someone else can take this question.

[Slow Ben]

Briar King said:

1411700263[/url]' post='1151104']
If I remember correctly I thought it said Asmodean and Lanfear gave Couldin the tats. Then again that may not be fact and thus no help at all lol.

That's what I remembered as well. Using the One power.

This post has been edited by Slow Ben: 26 September 2014 - 03:21 AM

[Morgoth]

I remember feeling uncomfortable with RJ's depiction of women when I read WOT, and I stopped reading when I was sixteen or seventeen I think.

[acesn8s]

Andorion, on 25 September 2014 - 02:44 AM, said:

One question: does Nynaeves victory over the Forsaken show she is actually equal in terms of raw power? Just having trouble believing that. Egeanin was interesting, though I thought they trusted her too easily.

Moghedien is the weakest of the Forsaken in the use of the One Power. Nynaeve over powering her does not immediately imply that she could go toe-to-toe with the more powerful of the other 12. She is definitely one of the most powerful Aes Sedai though.

[Andorion]

21 chapters into Fires of Heaven. Rand and Egwene PoVs are irritatingly slow, though the infodump about balefire was very interesting. Nynaeve storyline is way more interesting, especially the encounter with elephants (boar-horses indeed!) and finally, finally, Morgase gets off her ass and does something. I was wondering when that particular angle would be worked. Weirdly enough, by my calculation its been 3 books since a Forsaken took over Illian and we have heard practically nothing from him except the occasional Darkhound. Sammael is lazy.

Rand has finally brought the Aiel over the Dragonwall though what he intends to do with them is leaving me a bit puzzled. And I can't wait for a Perrin PoV again.

One thing that really bothers me is the basic softness of some of the protagonists. Nynaeve had Moghedien in the last book and she wasted precious time dithering over how to take her prisoner. If you have a Forsaken you kill said Forsaken. Simple enough. At least try. At least think of trying. You do not win wars against a Dark Lord by being nice. Projected Elayne-Thom romance is plain creepy and wrong. Please please let them both develop some sense.

That brings me to another strange feature, the way some characters in Wot fixate on hair. You have Nynaeve and her famous braid. ITs basically tirned into an anger management tool, but now everytime I read about her pulling her thick braid, I picturise a particulalrly silly shampoo ad wher the model pulled a fence to pieces with her hair. And then there are Thom's moustaches and Elayne. I mean its cute if a kid does it, but otherwise? come on this whole Elayne Thom thing is just plain wrong.

[Slow Ben]

Andorion said:

1411823535[/url]' post='1151310']
That brings me to another strange feature, the way some characters in Wot fixate on hair. You have Nynaeve and her famous braid. ITs basically tirned into an anger management tool, but now everytime I read about her pulling her thick braid, I picturise a particulalrly silly shampoo ad wher the model pulled a fence to pieces with her hair. And then there are Thom's moustaches and Elayne. I mean its cute if a kid does it, but otherwise? come on this whole Elayne Thom thing is just plain wrong.

Hahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!


Was waiting on you to get to that. Yeah, it actually gets more repetitive and annoying. "tugs braid".



And Thom/Elayne can't be explained without spoilers. So just, try not to see it as creepy and RAFO.

This post has been edited by Slow Ben: 27 September 2014 - 01:39 PM

[Andorion]

Slow Ben, on 27 September 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Andorion, on 27 September 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

That brings me to another strange feature, the way some characters in Wot fixate on hair. You have Nynaeve and her famous braid. ITs basically tirned into an anger management tool, but now everytime I read about her pulling her thick braid, I picturise a particulalrly silly shampoo ad wher the model pulled a fence to pieces with her hair. And then there are Thom's moustaches and Elayne. I mean its cute if a kid does it, but otherwise? come on this whole Elayne Thom thing is just plain wrong.

Hahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!


Was waiting on you to get to that. Yeah, it actually gets more repetitive and annoying. "tugs braid".



And Thom/Elayne can't be explained without spoilers. So just, try not to see it as creepy and RAFO.

It would be so much better if somebody turned her hair into an angreal and so every time she tugs her braid she gets a massive power boost. Now that I could get behind. As for the Thom-Elaine thing I sincerely hope all the RAFO elements are within the next book or so.

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 27 September 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

I think Perrins Golden Arc is prob in bk 4 after that IMO it just goes downhill. Now Mat just continues to be awesome till the end. Once again IMO.

What about the braid? Nobody weaponises the braid???

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 29 September 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

Damn this needs to go back in reg forum for traffic reasons until Andorin finishs his read thur. A lot of people aren't going to come to this sub form.

You mean in the main Other Lit forum? Could you ask a moderator?

[Andorion]

26 chapters into Fires of Heaven and I am increasingly leaning towards the conclusion that the Aes Sedai as an instution is broken/seriously ineffective. They know the Last Battle will happen, even Elaida accepts Rand as the Dragon and all they can indulge in is petty politics. Moiraine has been moaning from New Spring about the scarceness of Aes Sedai, yet Elaida has no problem in reducing their numbers even further. There have been guesses that the sustained campaign to wipe out men capable of channelling reduced the number of girls with Aes Sedai potential but no concrete knowledge as nobody knows how the ability to channell manifests. This ignorance is in spite of the fact that the Tower has a specific branch of Aes Sedai with the dedicated task of research. In fact, from what I have seen in the book most Aes Sedai seem to spend their time bullying people weaker than themselves. There was পractically no reaction after the Seanchan invasion, even after knowledge of the A'dam got through. The Seanchan represent a deadly and existential threat to the Aes Sedai and no one bothers to even think to investigate whether they really are gone, where they came form etc.

The Wise Ones of the Aiel are no better. So far their net contribution has been teaching Egwene about the Dreaming World. Thats it. They spend all the other time apparently bullying those junior to them and interfering in personal lives. Frankly I have yet to see too much wisdom from them. I wonder what they would say if they knew that Perrin, with no formal training hunted and wounded a Forsaken int he Dreaming.

[Abyss]

Andorion, on 28 September 2014 - 02:43 AM, said:

Briar King, on 27 September 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

I think Perrins Golden Arc is prob in bk 4 after that IMO it just goes downhill. Now Mat just continues to be awesome till the end. Once again IMO.

What about the braid? Nobody weaponises the braid???

In book six Nyneave tugs out her own braid and uses it like nunchucks to take out three dark friends and two Fades before strangling Rahvin into unconsciousness with it.Oh, um, I mean SPOILERS.

[Abyss]

Andorion, on 29 September 2014 - 02:44 AM, said:

Briar King, on 29 September 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

Damn this needs to go back in reg forum for traffic reasons until Andorin finishs his read thur. A lot of people aren't going to come to this sub form.

You mean in the main Other Lit forum? Could you ask a moderator?

Briar King, on 29 September 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Yeah I mean to reg forum. I don't see an edit to know what mod moved it. You could ask D'rek or Abyss though. Just makes sense to me till you finish cause your not gonna near the responses in here.

Why? It's gonna show up in New Content every time the thread is updated.

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 29 September 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

I use mobile so I usually don't see that stuff. I get your meaning though. I'm just to used to this version.

Luddite.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 29 September 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Briar King, on 29 September 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

I use mobile so I usually don't see that stuff. I get your meaning though. I'm just to used to this version.

Luddite.

Do people always use "View New Content"? I found out about it last month. And I found out how to change skins last week.

I know.... I know ..... I know.... Luddite

[Abyss]

Andorion, on 29 September 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

Abyss, on 29 September 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Briar King, on 29 September 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

I use mobile so I usually don't see that stuff. I get your meaning though. I'm just to used to this version.

Luddite.

Do people always use "View New Content"? I found out about it last month. And I found out how to change skins last week.

I know.... I know ..... I know.... Luddite

The New Content button gives you everything posted since the last time you were on the site.
Otherwise you have to check subforum by subforum with dates and times and too much effort.

Also... Luddite.

[Andorion]

39 chapters into Fires of Heaven. And now there is no more guessing. Now I know Rand is RJ wish fulfillment.

So Rand and Aviendha finally get together.......but on the other side of the world!!! Seriously? In a snowbound Seanchan cave? Right after Rand saved Aviendhas life? And warmed her with his body-heat? And Aviendha ferocious and intransigent Aiel Maiden and Wise-One in training actually, actually said:

Quote

“I ran from you as hard as I could, to shield my honor. And you followed me even here. The rings do not lie, and I can run no more.” Her tone firmed decisively. “I will run no more.”

So Rand is now emotionally/Physically involved with
1. Elayne who is princess and heir to Andor, Aes Sedai in training and an exceptionally good one at that (She casually mentions she can make Ter'angreal when absolutely no one has been able to do that since the Breaking)
2. Min (though Rand does not know this yet) who has a better personal forecasting ability than 99.99% Aes Sedai
3. Aviendha, warrior woman and Wise One who can kick practically any ones ass.

You have to admit this much about RJ. He does not do things by halves.
Riiiight. So moving on.....

Apparently people can get ripped out of the dreaming. So Birgitte is now Elayne's Warder, That little tidbit really turned things on its head.

It strikes me that Saldea is going to be very important in the near future. There's the news that the armies of Saldea and the commander are missing. That Kaldere the Darkfriend peddler is brother to the queen of Saldea (I think) and that Fayle is related to Saldea. So Saldea will probably be important. Though the city I want to see is Abou Dhar and its militant barmaids.

Gareth Bryne finally getting involved is nice. Now if only Morgase could show up..........

[Andorion]

47 chapters into Fires of Heaven.

1. The Battle: It was a bit disappointing honestly. I loved Mat's bits, and the setup with the tower with Rand and Egwene and Eviendha channelling reminded me very strongly of the sorcery enfilade at Pale in GotM. But I really wanted some good large-scale yet detailed battle-narratives.I was really missing SE's touch like the battle scenes in DG, RG, DoD TCG or even ICE in RotCG.

2. Character progression: I just finished Chapter 46, where Rand meets the Cairhinien and Tairen Lords and basically throws them all off balance. He seems to be pretty skilled in politics. But this is what I have a problem with. Uptil the end of the second book Rand was ignorant and pretty naive. Now he is playing the Game of Houses with the best. In the gap between these two points he hardly showed up in The Dragon Reborn, spent the first part of Shaow Rising yelling at Tairens and the second part, and the first part of Fires of Heaven with the Aiel in the Waste. In practical terms he should be a political amateur. So where is this coming from?
Frankly I find Nynaeve and Perrin's arcs more believable. Perrin was always more grounded, so it made sense he would go back home to make sure everybody's fine. Chapter 47 had a bit about Nynaeve internally wrestling with her origninal idea of taking care of the kids and all the new compulsions. Its this internal conflict and the resultant change that I want to see. And in Rands case thats what I am missing.

3. Why do we not get more Lan? I really wanted to see him cutting bloody swathes through soldiers.

[Abyss]

Andorion, on 01 October 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

47 chapters into Fires of Heaven.

1. The Battle: It was a bit disappointing honestly. I loved Mat's bits, and the setup with the tower with Rand and Egwene and Eviendha channelling reminded me very strongly of the sorcery enfilade at Pale in GotM. But I really wanted some good large-scale yet detailed battle-narratives.I was really missing SE's touch like the battle scenes in DG, RG, DoD TCG or even ICE in RotCG.

2. Character progression: I just finished Chapter 46, where Rand meets the Cairhinien and Tairen Lords and basically throws them all off balance. He seems to be pretty skilled in politics. But this is what I have a problem with. Uptil the end of the second book Rand was ignorant and pretty naive. Now he is playing the Game of Houses with the best. In the gap between these two points he hardly showed up in The Dragon Reborn, spent the first part of Shaow Rising yelling at Tairens and the second part, and the first part of Fires of Heaven with the Aiel in the Waste. In practical terms he should be a political amateur. So where is this coming from?
Frankly I find Nynaeve and Perrin's arcs more believable. Perrin was always more grounded, so it made sense he would go back home to make sure everybody's fine. Chapter 47 had a bit about Nynaeve internally wrestling with her origninal idea of taking care of the kids and all the new compulsions. Its this internal conflict and the resultant change that I want to see. And in Rands case thats what I am missing.

3. Why do we not get more Lan? I really wanted to see him cutting bloody swathes through soldiers.

1. Agreed. One of the most disappointing of the first few books, albeit for all the right reasons.

2. A bit of a RAFO, but Rand's always been more intelligent than anyone expects. His political strategy to that point is mostly to make demands, throw who he is in people's faces, and keep moving before they can do anything but obey. He's not exactly channeling the West Wing.

3. There is no such thing as enough Lan.