[Syphonics]

I'd like to get a discussion going about Mallick Rel. So far, I've read all of the main series, and through Stonewielder, and he always ends up on top. From what I've heard, he seems to be one of the most hated characters, and with good reason. However, I can't help but respect him for what he has accomplished. He practically ordered the deaths of 10,000 malazan soldiers, he was among the top leaders of the rebellion, and turned that story around so that he then became a top leader in the Malazan empire. He also managed to politic/assassinate his way into becoming the new emperor of the Malazan empire, being known as Mallick the Merciful. He also managed to completely eliminate the parts of the Malazan empire that went rogue on Korel (Admittedly, this was Greymanes doing, but who managed to get Greymane out of retirement and sent him to Korel?). All of this, and he managed to keep a freaking elder god under his thumb for some unknown amount of time.

I'd really like to see the disposition of the Malazan empire after Mallicks rule is finished, and the changes he has brought about from the beginning to the end of his rule. I can't help but think that his rule will be only beneficial to the Malazan empire as a whole.

[D'rek]

There's no denying that Mallick Rel is extremely capable. He not only has achieved a hell of a lot, but he's done it always behind a hidden facade of seemingly not being a threatening figure at all. In 7C, he seems to have been practically running the show with Korbolo, Pormqual and Kamist, but maintained his image as just an advisor to them. Then once he clears his name in Unta he essentially takes power but the other politicians only see a senator who has risen through peaceful means and had no hand in removing Laseen. No one has investigated him and found his hidden connections, either because no one has thought it needed investigation or because he's covered his tracks so well.

And yes, his competence does seem to extend at least somewhat to ruling the Empire. It may be that the Empire will flourish under his rule.

What I am really curious to know is... why. Mallick is not an altruistic person. He could have plotted and backstabbed his way into many other wealthy, leisurely positions. So why does he want to be the Emperor at all?

[nacht]

D, on 18 July 2014 - 02:09 AM, said:

There's no denying that Mallick Rel is extremely capable. He not only has achieved a hell of a lot, but he's done it always behind a hidden facade of seemingly not being a threatening figure at all. In 7C, he seems to have been practically running the show with Korbolo, Pormqual and Kamist, but maintained his image as just an advisor to them. Then once he clears his name in Unta he essentially takes power but the other politicians only see a senator who has risen through peaceful means and had no hand in removing Laseen. No one has investigated him and found his hidden connections, either because no one has thought it needed investigation or because he's covered his tracks so well.

And yes, his competence does seem to extend at least somewhat to ruling the Empire. It may be that the Empire will flourish under his rule.

What I am really curious to know is... why. Mallick is not an altruistic person. He could have plotted and backstabbed his way into many other wealthy, leisurely positions. So why does he want to be the Emperor at all?

That is a funny question to ask D'rek :-)
Power is it's own draw. You need no other reason.

I would say he is also extremely lucky. (especially for having the fool Lasseen as an opponent)
His future though is not very clear, as the crazy ST has become even more powerful.

[Andorion]

One thing to be noted though.. whatever Mallik is planning, he will not have the resources of the old Empire to help him any more. Consider, in TBH and RG it became evident that the Bonehunters were the last true Imperial army in the field. They vanished in Kolanse, and from the TCG epilogue, it seems they were disbanded. In OST it became clear that the Malazan military presence in Genebackis was quite pitiful. 7 Cities has a force as garrison. Most of the troops in Quon Tali were chewed up by the rebellion in RotCG. What could be scraped up were sent to Korel, where they lost their commander. So the only Malazan field army is in Korel. The Empire doesn't really have too many competent commanders left. The Claw, thanks to Mallik's own plots, Kalam, and Apsalar's Shadow Dance, is ineffective. They have only two competent people left, and very few rank and file to back them up. There is literally no Malazan High Mage cadre. So, if some other foreign power, Lether for example takes it into head to attack the EMpire is in big trouble. Remember, Lether now has Malazan training in tactics and alchemical munitions of their own.

[worry]

Soon enough you'll have Tehol at the bow of a ship yelling "I'm the king of the world!" -- and meaning it.

[Andorion]

upworthywort, on 18 July 2014 - 02:58 AM, said:

Soon enough you'll have Tehol at the bow of a ship yelling "I'm the king of the world!" -- and meaning it.

Or whoever succeeds him. Though knowing Tehol, he would probably have at least 7 different scams to keep Lether in line. Come to think of it Tehol could probably take the Malazan Empire through wits alone. Probably buy up all the Imperial debt and then default or something.

[Syphonics]

Andorion, on 18 July 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

One thing to be noted though.. whatever Mallik is planning, he will not have the resources of the old Empire to help him any more. Consider, in TBH and RG it became evident that the Bonehunters were the last true Imperial army in the field. They vanished in Kolanse, and from the TCG epilogue, it seems they were disbanded. In OST it became clear that the Malazan military presence in Genebackis was quite pitiful. 7 Cities has a force as garrison. Most of the troops in Quon Tali were chewed up by the rebellion in RotCG. What could be scraped up were sent to Korel, where they lost their commander. So the only Malazan field army is in Korel. The Empire doesn't really have too many competent commanders left. The Claw, thanks to Mallik's own plots, Kalam, and Apsalar's Shadow Dance, is ineffective. They have only two competent people left, and very few rank and file to back them up. There is literally no Malazan High Mage cadre. So, if some other foreign power, Lether for example takes it into head to attack the EMpire is in big trouble. Remember, Lether now has Malazan training in tactics and alchemical munitions of their own.

Didn't the entirety of the army return from Korel at the end of Stonewielder? I don't believe it was too clear on that. Also, I'd think its generally accepted that Devaleth would qualify as a high mage now. I do agree with your point, there is no one left from the old Empire that I can think of. I still haven't read OST or B&B, so I'm not sure how the Kiska - Tayschrenn plot ends. If he does return, then that is another high mage.

I'm not sure if Korel counts as Malazan territory at the end of Stonewielder. If it does, thats an entire continents worth of potential recruits. If not, well, the Malazans have never seemed to have a problem drumming up an entire armies worth of recruits from Quon Tali, not even considering Genabackan and 7C recruits.

Finally, I'm not sure we can discount whatevers left of the Bonehunters. The only one we know to have retired is Fiddler, but we also know that Grub goes on to become the First Sword of the empire, so I don't think its too far outside the realm of possibility to believe he brought whats left of the Bonehunters with him. Is it possible, do you think, that Mallick Rel was still emperor when Grub became the First Sword?

[Andorion]

Syphonics, on 18 July 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

Andorion, on 18 July 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

One thing to be noted though.. whatever Mallik is planning, he will not have the resources of the old Empire to help him any more. Consider, in TBH and RG it became evident that the Bonehunters were the last true Imperial army in the field. They vanished in Kolanse, and from the TCG epilogue, it seems they were disbanded. In OST it became clear that the Malazan military presence in Genebackis was quite pitiful. 7 Cities has a force as garrison. Most of the troops in Quon Tali were chewed up by the rebellion in RotCG. What could be scraped up were sent to Korel, where they lost their commander. So the only Malazan field army is in Korel. The Empire doesn't really have too many competent commanders left. The Claw, thanks to Mallik's own plots, Kalam, and Apsalar's Shadow Dance, is ineffective. They have only two competent people left, and very few rank and file to back them up. There is literally no Malazan High Mage cadre. So, if some other foreign power, Lether for example takes it into head to attack the EMpire is in big trouble. Remember, Lether now has Malazan training in tactics and alchemical munitions of their own.

Didn't the entirety of the army return from Korel at the end of Stonewielder? I don't believe it was too clear on that. Also, I'd think its generally accepted that Devaleth would qualify as a high mage now. I do agree with your point, there is no one left from the old Empire that I can think of. I still haven't read OST or B&B, so I'm not sure how the Kiska - Tayschrenn plot ends. If he does return, then that is another high mage.

I'm not sure if Korel counts as Malazan territory at the end of Stonewielder. If it does, thats an entire continents worth of potential recruits. If not, well, the Malazans have never seemed to have a problem drumming up an entire armies worth of recruits from Quon Tali, not even considering Genabackan and 7C recruits.

Finally, I'm not sure we can discount whatevers left of the Bonehunters. The only one we know to have retired is Fiddler, but we also know that Grub goes on to become the First Sword of the empire, so I don't think its too far outside the realm of possibility to believe he brought whats left of the Bonehunters with him. Is it possible, do you think, that Mallick Rel was still emperor when Grub became the First Sword?

Difficult to say but I consider it unlikely

[Egwene]

Mallick Rel? He is a career politician. Doesn't that explain everything?!

[Syphonics]

Andorion, on 18 July 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

Syphonics, on 18 July 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

Andorion, on 18 July 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

One thing to be noted though.. whatever Mallik is planning, he will not have the resources of the old Empire to help him any more. Consider, in TBH and RG it became evident that the Bonehunters were the last true Imperial army in the field. They vanished in Kolanse, and from the TCG epilogue, it seems they were disbanded. In OST it became clear that the Malazan military presence in Genebackis was quite pitiful. 7 Cities has a force as garrison. Most of the troops in Quon Tali were chewed up by the rebellion in RotCG. What could be scraped up were sent to Korel, where they lost their commander. So the only Malazan field army is in Korel. The Empire doesn't really have too many competent commanders left. The Claw, thanks to Mallik's own plots, Kalam, and Apsalar's Shadow Dance, is ineffective. They have only two competent people left, and very few rank and file to back them up. There is literally no Malazan High Mage cadre. So, if some other foreign power, Lether for example takes it into head to attack the EMpire is in big trouble. Remember, Lether now has Malazan training in tactics and alchemical munitions of their own.

Didn't the entirety of the army return from Korel at the end of Stonewielder? I don't believe it was too clear on that. Also, I'd think its generally accepted that Devaleth would qualify as a high mage now. I do agree with your point, there is no one left from the old Empire that I can think of. I still haven't read OST or B&B, so I'm not sure how the Kiska - Tayschrenn plot ends. If he does return, then that is another high mage.

I'm not sure if Korel counts as Malazan territory at the end of Stonewielder. If it does, thats an entire continents worth of potential recruits. If not, well, the Malazans have never seemed to have a problem drumming up an entire armies worth of recruits from Quon Tali, not even considering Genabackan and 7C recruits.

Finally, I'm not sure we can discount whatevers left of the Bonehunters. The only one we know to have retired is Fiddler, but we also know that Grub goes on to become the First Sword of the empire, so I don't think its too far outside the realm of possibility to believe he brought whats left of the Bonehunters with him. Is it possible, do you think, that Mallick Rel was still emperor when Grub became the First Sword?

Difficult to say but I consider it unlikely

I'm really not sure, I see it as being possible at the very least. We can't really judge how long his term will be based on his predecessors (~90 years and ~10 years). As emperor, I see it as totally possible for him to extend his lifespan with Denul rituals, and I don't see him being maneuvered out of office, at least politically... the only reason I can think of would be assassination.

[Son of Father Light]

As much as I despise the oaf, he's still a crafty bastard. He'll lead the Empire into a new age. He has amassed more personal power than any of his predecessors. He has garnered a well liked imagine among the citizens too.

[Gorefest]

I'm kind of hoping that we'll get a bit more on the course of the Empire under Mallick Rel in the Karsa trilogy. Maybe Karsa will search out and destroy Mallick in a horrible and painful way, in the process plunging the empire into civil war again, or something along those lines.