Malazan Empire: Mafia 112.79 - Malazan Empire

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Mafia 112.79 Meat and Potatoes

#461 User is offline   Ampelas 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:05 PM

View PostShinrei, on 24 June 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

It is Day 3, 12 hours and 50 minutes are left in the Day.

9 players are alive.

Ampelas, Barghast, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Liosan, Nimander Golit, Sukul Ankhadu

3 votes Denul: Barghast, Ampelas, Sukul Ankhadu
2 votes Barghast: Eloth, Galayn Lord
2 votes Galayn Lord: Denul, Ampelas

Players not voting: Hood's Path, Liosan, Nimander Golit


I can't be voting for GL if I am voting for Denul :p

#462 User is offline   Denul 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:46 PM

View PostAmpelas, on 24 June 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

View PostDenul, on 24 June 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Do you want me to go on. Because it just goes on and on and on and on. Every single time town has ignored blatent WIFOM scum have cruised to victory. Now if that gets me lynched then so be it. I stand by that assessment. I can not think nor name one game in the last 100 were town was better off for leaving someone who generated WIFOM in the game. It doesn't matter if the original case on GL was shit or not. We are past that. What matters is that he was taken down to l-2 with another player with under an hour left in the game and wasn't lynched. Someone who didn't give a CF was (I assume town). When you look at his failed lynch. There are several players who come out and basically state I will not vote for this person. What member of town does that? And it is more then one player. Come on.


Yes, it does matter. There are other people who we can actually take a serious look at and based on past behaviour choose to lynch them. You just said here you don't want to kill him for any other reason that he is alive now. That is bullshit.

Here you go again with the fucking WIFOM generation. Shin EXPLICITLY STATED that we will get scum CFs when scum die. The question was asked again by SA and I quoted shin's post AGAIN. Stop trying to make us doubt things that we have concrete information of.

Only 1 person has said they will not vote for him. A few people have said they will not for him YET, pretty big difference there. What kind of player tries to keep someone alive and not have them self vote? The kind that thinks someone is behaving more like town than another viable option to lynch.


The concrete information that we have that you keep wanting to ignore are the votes for both GL and Kaschan. I am glad that you agree with my understanding of what kind of player seems to want to keep a player alive and not self voting. The problem with that is if you are both scum then it reads as scum working the thread to get out of a lynch. That is how I read it. But that is how it reads. I have read it multiple times and it reads the same way each time. You and Barghast keeping GL alive. I will not let go of this. You will have to lynch me in order for to not hear me harp on this. Your and Barghast's but more yours then his actions are extremely suspicious. Oh and guess what I can do fonts and colors to make a point as well. Have a nice day.

#463 User is offline   Denul 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:49 PM

View PostAmpelas, on 24 June 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

View PostShinrei, on 24 June 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

It is Day 3, 12 hours and 50 minutes are left in the Day.

9 players are alive.

Ampelas, Barghast, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Liosan, Nimander Golit, Sukul Ankhadu

3 votes Denul: Barghast, Ampelas, Sukul Ankhadu
2 votes Barghast: Eloth, Galayn Lord
2 votes Galayn Lord: Denul, Ampelas

Players not voting: Hood's Path, Liosan, Nimander Golit


I can't be voting for GL if I am voting for Denul :p


Why would you vote for the person who you fought tooth and nail to keep alive yesterday. You want to be voting for me. My only hope is that after my CF the remaining members of town will take an even harder look at you, GL and Barghast.

#464 User is offline   Denul 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:50 PM

View PostAmpelas, on 24 June 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

View PostGalayn Lord, on 24 June 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Amp, I see your point I think on Denul - I am willing to switch there if needed.


If both you and barghast come to your senses and let go of each others throats we can put Denul at L-2


WOW trying to talk your fellow scum into hopping on my train in order to get another town lynched. Keep going. I am keeping track of everything your saying. That way tomorrow Town will be able to see every single scummy thing.

#465 User is offline   Barghast 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:55 PM

Remove Vote

Denul is making sense. I cannot refute Eloth's argument anymore, basically the end of day two was frantic and fast paced. It's not like we had hours talking back and forth. My stance on GL is that he could be scum or town, but I am not sure of either, I'd lean more towards town but I don't know. This is why I agree with Denul that removing GL would remove the wifom.

I can see Denul being scum, for all his talk of removing the wifom he has not been on a successful lynch train and missed the first two end of days.

Nimander and Ampelas both argued against the GL lynch, and said the case was shit. I didn't do that, I was around and willing to vote either way. They actively defended GL somewhat.

#466 User is offline   Barghast 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:56 PM

I am going to go away, have a think, read the thread again, and then vote. I am a bit blinded by defending so much against Eloth.

I want to hear more from Liosan and Hood's path

#467 User is offline   Ampelas 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:58 PM

View PostBarghast, on 24 June 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Denul is making sense. I cannot refute Eloth's argument anymore, basically the end of day two was frantic and fast paced. It's not like we had hours talking back and forth. My stance on GL is that he could be scum or town, but I am not sure of either, I'd lean more towards town but I don't know. This is why I agree with Denul that removing GL would remove the wifom.

I can see Denul being scum, for all his talk of removing the wifom he has not been on a successful lynch train and missed the first two end of days.

Nimander and Ampelas both argued against the GL lynch, and said the case was shit. I didn't do that, I was around and willing to vote either way. They actively defended GL somewhat.


You have done some massive mental gymnastics today. You seem utterly terrified of being linked to GL, or seen to have a concrete opinion. Why is that?

#468 User is offline   Barghast 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 02:15 PM

Part of it is because of your behaviour iehigh defense of GL combined with Nimander's. Your case today which is similar to why I was and would vote for Denul.

Part of it is because of my reread - GL doesn't actually look innocent, he could be scum and Denul is making sense about removing that wifom/doubt

Part of it is because of various accusations - Eloth and Denul both think I was defending GL when I wasn't and would have voted for him.

Mix it all together and I have a lot of doubts. I think my initial post about GL was done without thinking too much into it, I should have read up first. I am worried we might lynch wrong, I am worried that scum are playing us.

What if we are not getting CF's because no one is scum and Shin is fucking with us? This I don't believe but I did think it earlier.

#469 User is offline   Eloth 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:00 PM

Shin promised CFs, period.

I'll leave my vote where it is. It's well-placed there.

#470 User is offline   Shinrei 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:05 PM

This is M&P.

I will not mess around with CFs. If town lynches a killer, the CF will indicate as such.
You’ve never heard of the Silanda? … It’s the ship that made the Warren of Telas run in less than 12 parsecs.
0

#471 User is offline   Nimander Golit 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:06 PM

Hello folks - I've got a work BBQ today, so will not be near a computer most of the day. I'll be here before timeout though. I'd put down a vote, but I don't want to put Denul to close to a lynch, and that's where my vote would currently go. I'll see what's going on when I get back from the work BBQ and make a decision then!

#472 User is offline   Barghast 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:06 PM

I was just saying the thought did cross my mind.

#473 User is offline   Barghast 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:09 PM

View PostEloth, on 24 June 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Shin promised CFs, period.

I'll leave my vote where it is. It's well-placed there.


Fair enough I suppose.

What do you make of what I said about Nimander and Amp?

#474 User is offline   Eloth 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:35 PM

View PostBarghast, on 24 June 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

View PostEloth, on 24 June 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Shin promised CFs, period.

I'll leave my vote where it is. It's well-placed there.


Fair enough I suppose.

What do you make of what I said about Nimander and Amp?

It is basically what Denul is saying.
Thing is, right now we have a Denul lynch on the cards, whether I like it or not.

If he comes up as town, investigating Ampelas makes sense considering his no-lynch attitude towards GL AND the attack on Denul, who is GL-not-being-lynched's largest criticaster.
I think that would offer us more leads than going for NG.

If Denul comes up scum, I'd probably not look at Ampelas but elsewhere.

#475 User is offline   Liosan 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:37 PM

At work, will be active in 3 hrs or so. Lynch isnt for like 10 hrs and ill be around until after lynch when work ends. I'm still on board with denuls ideas, and think amp and nimander are suspicious. Will elaborate later

#476 User is offline   Liosan 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 08:44 PM

All right, here are all my thoughts on the GL/Denul/lynch/(Barghy,Nimander,Ampelas defending GL) situation.

DISCLAIMER: some of this is speculation, some of it is based on logic, some on evidence, but it's a lot of my own thought process, mixed in with some gut too. Take what you will from it. It's not a case, just a statement of what I've seen.

On GL himself: looking back on GL's actions throughout the game, I'm not particularly convinced either way as to his alignment. The problem with this is it really muddies up the thread. I agree with Denul in the fact that we need to lynch him to clear up the thread so we can see the game more clearly tomorrow.

On the defense of GL: This is a lot more suspicious to me. I'll start with Nimander's continuous defense of GL:

This is the first time that Nimander tries to stall a lynch on GL. Of course, it turns out that either way there wouldn't have been a lynch, but in the moment there's no way to know that. And without knowing whether or not someone else could show up to vote GL after Nimander could've, putting GL at L-1, where Nimander's refusal to switch away from the person who was, in fact, contributing the most to the thread (imo). The only other person who had their vote on Pallid at the end of the day was Ampelas.

View PostNimander Golit, on 19 June 2014 - 02:02 AM, said:

Its looking like a trademark Malazan Mafia no lynch for Day 1. As of right now I see no reason to vote away from Pallid. Specially after yet another vote hop


The next day, this is his opinion on how he'll vote:

View PostNimander Golit, on 20 June 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

Like I said, I'll vote GL if it's necessary for the lynch, but I'd just as soon not vote for him. The case against him is a load of shit, as far as I am concerned. You're all just latching on to the easy lynch for no good reason.


The two problems I have with this are 1) that with GL at L-1, and Kaschan at L-2, he stayed on Kaschan, not switching as he said he would. The second problem is that whether or not the GL case was actually a load of shit, the Kaschan one was based off of a single post that Kaschan said he wrote while half asleep. The Kaschan case was a load of shit as well.

And now today, again, Nimander doesn't want to vote GL, instead saying that he'll likely vote Denul, the one pushing for a GL lynch. What this seems to show to me is that there is some ulterior motive to Nimander trying to keep GL alive. And since Gl

---

Moving on to Ampelas:

I already posted some of my position on Ampelas, about his list, and how he voted Pallid day one, and it stayed like that for the rest of the day. Besides laying relatively low in general, the main things Ampelas has gotten worked up about are Atrahal accusing him of being scum because he was "middling", and people trying to lynch GL today. His reaction to Atrahal has been noted as very intense, to the point of being an overreaction, and he's been seriously fighting GL's lynch, actually more than Barghy, who said he was giving GL a pass today.

---

Moving on to looking at all the end of day voting layouts:

View PostShinrei, on 19 June 2014 - 03:51 AM, said:

It is day 1, Day has timed out without a lynch.

12 players are alive.

Ampelas, Atrahal, Barghast, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Liosan, Nimander Golit, Pallid, Sukul Ankhadu


1 vote Eloth: Denul
2 votes Pallid: Nimander Golit, Ampelas
1 vote Liosan: Galayn Lord
1 vote Ampelas: Atrahal
4 votes Galayn Lord: Liosan, Pallid, Kaschan, Hood's Path


Players not voting: Barghast, Eloth, Sukul Ankhad



View PostShinrei, on 20 June 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

It is day 2, 8 minutes were left at time of hammer.

11 players are alive.

Ampelas, Atrahal, Barghast, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Liosan, Nimander Golit, Sukul Ankhadu

6 votes Kaschan: Sukul Ankhadu, Galayn Lord, Ampelas, Nimander Golit, Barghast, Hood's Path
4 votes Galayn Lord: Liosan, Eloth, Kaschan, Denul
1 vote Ampelas: Atrahal


Players not voting: None




The only people who did not have a vote on GL at the end of day either day are: Barghast, Sukul, Nimander, Ampelas (this is not counting GL himself of course.)

Today, Barghy is voting GL right now. This leaves only Sukul, Nimander, and Ampelas. Sukul is basically a nonentity, so that leaves Nimander and Ampelas. That's the extent to which they've gone to avoid GL getting lynched. Never having voted him, not even to get a lynch, because apparently GL's CF isn't better than a no-lynch. And who is that true for? Scum. Scum either saving their buddy, or keeping town alive for the inevitable WIFOM he will bring. To town, any lynch gives more information, GL's especially, since without it there's a boatload of WIFOM.

POSSIBLE WIFOM ALERT:

And here's where it gets a bit more speculative, because it's NK analysis.

Nimander and Ampelas were both voting Pallid, the only ones doing so, when day ended. Pallid got NK'ed. Atrahal called out Nimander, Ampelas, and GL as scum yesterday, Ampelas overreacted, and Atrahal got NK'ed. Atrahal was a nonentity, basically, besides calling out Nimander and Ampelas as scum, so why else would scum want to kill them? He wouldn't help town much more alive than dead, judging by his post count, so I can't see any other reason for an NK. To be quite honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Denul got NK'ed tonight, after he's come after them. Of course, now he won't be NK'ed, because that would be too obvious for scum to do now that I've pointed it out. But if they don't do it, then Denul will be hunting them tomorrow, as he's promised already.

#477 User is offline   Liosan 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 08:46 PM

I'll draw this a bit more even. We need the WIFOM gone, and with GL's CF everything will be so much clearer.

Vote Galayn Lord

It's not personal dude, just needs to be done for the greater good.

#478 User is offline   Ampelas 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 08:56 PM

Did you honestly just suggest I am so stupid as to actually NK the very same people I try to lynch on thread every day? Brilliant! :p

I will swap to GL (and Lio, I have voted GL earlier) to get the lynch if it ends up swinging that way but I'd really prefer we lynch Denul.

#479 User is offline   Denul 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 09:09 PM

View PostAmpelas, on 24 June 2014 - 08:56 PM, said:

Did you honestly just suggest I am so stupid as to actually NK the very same people I try to lynch on thread every day? Brilliant! :p

I will swap to GL (and Lio, I have voted GL earlier) to get the lynch if it ends up swinging that way but I'd really prefer we lynch Denul.


It has been done multiple times in several games. I believe that the last game were something like that happened was mafia 109 (not even that far back) when Venge basically killed everyone who seemed bright or thought that he was scum. Oh and scum won that game. So the whole am I so stupid defense doesn't fly when in fact scum has won doing that thing.

Please try again.

#480 User is offline   Denul 

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 09:10 PM

I am quite happy with my vote. I will try to check the thread later tonight but no guarantees

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