[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 19 May 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 19 May 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

Shin, just from my point of view, you can still play high tdmi but not try to work out mechanics? At the end of the day, this game could have been won on thread. Nobody went back to the time the SK contract was taken. Looked at the two groups and worked out logically who could win from that point on. Khell's hammer of Anthras was the same as Tholen's hammer of Kaschan. Scummy.

There was no way, any of you should have overlooked that.

High TDMi is still mafia with weird night actions. You still have scum defending each other, distancing, voting elsewhere. All you can stay is townie, and if you are fooled then you are fooled, IT IS JUST A GAME, that we are meant to play for fun.

I somewhat disagree. A mafia-sense will either keep you around, or make you a target, yes. That's not different from standard mafia and yes, the posting styles and tactics will be largely the same. However, the problem with ignoring the mechanics in high TMDI games is that you'll lose the (night) action competition because the optimal way of using abilities isn't going to be apparent, the same for loopholes left intentionally or unintentionally by the mod.

What I am saying, is that he CAN play High TDMi games and play in a way that his brain doesn't explode. I enjoy them, and I am pleased by the mind fuckery but only some games will I go deep.


On that note for example, this game;

Gnaw invested a lot of time working things out, not many other put that much effort in. In the end it worked against him somewhat, because he concentrated too much on that and not what was happening on thread.

Most other people in this game, did not get the balance right either.

So in this game, Gnaw gets A+ for effort whereas I cannot say anyone else did as much. Okaros/Blend played more of an on thread game but I would say not as much of effort as Gnaw.

In other games there are only one or two players that go ALL IN whereas the rest of the players, may be up to speed, may have read the thread but only go 60% of the way in terms of effort.

Look at Ansible a game or so ago, he was scum and won because he invested 100% of his effort, you could see that on his "fake case" making, and his high defense. Brilliant play by a scum player.


That massive champions game I participated in had more posts in one day than this entire game.I am NOT saying that is a good thing but if we had more posts day one we would have had better reads of each player. The low activity day one helps scum over town.

I do think we played awesome early on. Khell screwed with that, but I do think they should have lynched him after that Anthras lynch.

[Tattersail_]

Shinrei, on 19 May 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Tapper, on 19 May 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

I somewhat disagree. A mafia-sense will either keep you around, or make you a target, yes. That's not different from standard mafia and yes, the posting styles and tactics will be largely the same. However, the problem with ignoring the mechanics in high TMDI games is that you'll lose the (night) action competition because the optimal way of using abilities isn't going to be apparent, the same for loopholes left intentionally or unintentionally by the mod.

Not only that, but we have a pretty strong malazan mafia tradition of lynching people who say something mistaken or ignorant about mechanics on thread.I'm tired of feeling stupid in the high TMDIs. I freely admit that they make me feel like I have an IQ of 50.

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to continue to DESIGN higher TMDI (Sengoku 6 will be pretty high).

Tattersail_, on 19 May 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

IT IS JUST A GAME, that we are meant to play for fun.

Yeah, and I can tell myself that all I want, but when I get involved I find myself incapable of keeping game frustration from spilling into my thoughts when I'm away from the computer. That's one of the reasons I like modding so much. I don't care who wins, so I can observe the game, have fun and be involved that way.

Well I will miss your presence!

(In high TDMi games we usually need more players, we could count you in as a meat shield?)


I want to play a Malazan 20+ player game again!

[Gnaw]

Speaking of Sengoku, when is it running?

[Inane Babble]

How long is the gap between games normally? Want to have a crack at lasting longer than a single day.

[Tapper]

Inane Babble, on 19 May 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

How long is the gap between games normally? Want to have a crack at lasting longer than a single day.

expect sign ups to open soon-ish (when Tatts gets to it), probably with a start next monday

[Tapper]

It seems to be either Obdi, Lady B or Gnaw, I think?

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 19 May 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

Inane Babble, on 19 May 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

How long is the gap between games normally? Want to have a crack at lasting longer than a single day.

expect sign ups to open soon-ish (when Tatts gets to it), probably with a start next monday

Got ya sir.

[Macros]

So shinrea.
hd claims he's finished his questions.......

[Macros]

also, what happened with tatts in the champion games by thingyman? Is he still alive? Did he win?
did he go out in a blaze of fiery glory?

[Tattersail_]

Macros, on 19 May 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

also, what happened with tatts in the champion games by thingyman? Is he still alive? Did he win?
did he go out in a blaze of fiery glory?

Spoiler

I got caught at a bad time in RL, no internet access. It's still going on.

Cannot discuss it, but there is a thread somewhere discussing it.

This post has been edited by Tattersail_: 19 May 2014 - 01:00 PM

[Tattersail_]

Here it is Macros.

http://forum.malazan...afia-champions/

Password is (ask)

[Macros]

Disapointjng.
take two weeks off work for the next one, represent us properly

[Tattersail_]

Macros, on 19 May 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Disapointjng.
take two weeks off work for the next one, represent us properly

I know. *Hangs heads in shame!*

[HiddenOne]

This game generated more emotion than usual, I think. I'm still glad I didn't play.

I will freely admit that I am weak in the area of analyzing the mechanics of the high TDMI games. I play more for the challenge than the thrill of victory, so I find myself avoiding them more complex games when I don't feel particularly sharp, because this game will grind the wits if you let it. If I get too emotionally involved, a fun time become a stressful situation, and nobody needs that.

@Shin - My friend, you always need to decompress after a game - I name as example the rage you've thrown my way in the past, but you always chill out after a few days. On a personal note, don't be to hard on yourself for snapping at your kid. I have done the same thing. She won't hold it against you, and one can't always have a tea party on command (but I do believe that you should try whenever possible).

[Vengeance]

Shinrei, on 19 May 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

HiddenOne, on 19 May 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

This game generated more emotion than usual, I think. I'm still glad I didn't play.

I will freely admit that I am weak in the area of analyzing the mechanics of the high TDMI games. I play more for the challenge than the thrill of victory, so I find myself avoiding them more complex games when I don't feel particularly sharp, because this game will grind the wits if you let it. If I get too emotionally involved, a fun time become a stressful situation, and nobody needs that.

@Shin - My friend, you always need to decompress after a game - I name as example the rage you've thrown my way in the past, but you always chill out after a few days. On a personal note, don't be to hard on yourself for snapping at your kid. I have done the same thing. She won't hold it against you, and one can't always have a tea party on command (but I do believe that you should try whenever possible).

Thanks HiddenOne. I get what you're saying, but rage against incredibly annoying players others and rage against myself are rather different things. Yeah, maybe in a few days I'll feel all right again, but that doesn't change the fact that all it takes is a certain game to get my blood pressure off the charts again. It's not about winning, it's about not making a fool of myself.

Case in point - Silencer commented above that I was being lazy and that I was a better player than what I was showing. Well, I beg to differ. I put more effort into this game than is obviously evident by the results on thread. If my best efforts appear shitty and lazy, then that's a pretty sure sign to hang up the spurs.

Shin I have been there. Last fall my play was shitty and I was burnt out. Take a break it will help. Don't hang up just recharge.

[Shinrei]

shit, wasn't fast enough

[Vengeance]

Shinrei, on 19 May 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

shit, wasn't fast enough

Do you want me to delete it?

[Shinrei]

No, it's ok, it doesn't matter. I just need to move on.

[Blend]

So, by the end, I had Khell pegged as Inno. I participated less at the end of the game because I was around the thread less for one, and for two, I was so certain that I had everything figured out. As far as I was concerned, if Kara hadn't been the SK, then it had to be Pran Chole, so when Khell said he used Hallucination and was able to see that Pran had the SK contract, it just put the final nails in his coffin. I should have gone with my initial gut feeling and fucking voted Khell out as soon as he voted Anthras out, but he played the woe is me, you're all just voting me out cause of meta argument, and I had to stand back and really think about why I figured it must be him, and it WAS pretty meta, so then I started trying to figure out the contracts and stuff, and as far as I could tell, Khell was not the SK.

[Blend]

Silencer, on 18 May 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Ugh.

My fucking compatriots are fucking idiots. GAH.

Some feedback:

Korbas/Gnaw - that was overly paranoid. And you DID place your registration order HOURS before I even had a chance to post. It may have been a long time for you, but I was asleep for that entire time. Seeing as you'd registered the "no posting unless in pics" Contract, there was literally nothing I could have done once that Contract had gone through, and YOU were the one who rejected my offer of working together. There is also nothing I could have posted to convince you of my innocence - the SK had every piece of information any inno would have, remember? I also wasn't particularly motivated to converse seeing as you'd effectively made it so that after 18 hours we could only converse in pictures, and you didn't express any interest in talking to me. From the start. You just assumed anyone using Possession would be scum, when it clearly has other uses, especially end-game.

Coming up with additional mechanics to the SCM Contract, was illogical. Especially when we had seen nothing to indicate such. If there had been a kill on the second night with SCM around? Fine. Speculate away. But pulling BS out your ass in the face of what is an impeccable strategy? No way. Throwing away a Town win, just as deliberately as Khell did when he took SCM. For shame.

Also note: no player who had picked up SCM would take Possession and use it on the first night. It has a one-night cooldown, and even WITHOUT that limitation, it is more likely to get the SCM caught than aid them, until d-day. They might want Possession. They might want it very badly. But they would NOT use it. The fact that you therefore lit up the player holding it by forcing an overly long and very revealing series of posts on-thread, was very silly. You, personally, lost Town this game by ignoring very obvious facts. Yes, SK could have played the "make friends" game. But the risk inherent there was way too great for most players. I'd have been a lot safer, were I the SK, not Possessing you, right? Yeah. OR - Possessing you and then NK'ing you. Get the vote, but no drawbacks.

Taking Possession out of the reach of the SCM, while potentially wise, would not have been necessary if you had not forced so much into the open, and it was also clearly irrelevant as to whether the SCM held Possession or not. Indeed, best case? They used their last anti-tank on me (once practically revealed on-thread) on the subsequent night, thus clearing my name. Without that, they would of course just have narrowed the suspect pool (or hit a CI, but that's to be expected - by then, Possession would have given us two CI's at least, with a third to follow, while the SCM was out of options).

Seriously. Use brain. Win game. You literally had ZERO reason to lynch me. At all. Nothing. The only thing you used was that I probably had Possession - and that was empty of purpose. Late-game, never do stupid shit like that. It's a methodical approach, not a gut one, which wins those situations. And asking for someone to "prove" that they Possessed you when you're accusing the Possessor of being scum? In a game with reveal restrictions preventing that? Nice. Not only should it have tipped you off that I was not scum, given how much effort I was going to in order to make it obvious I had Possession, but it should also have got you to stop and think things through - take a step back.
Setting very specific criteria for "proving" was also silly. Heck, I literally used almost verbatim lines from my conversation with you on-thread. Quite in plain sight, deliberately, while replying to your queries about whether I Possessed you or not.
Fuck, what sort of SK would skate that close to modkill, just to prove they hold a Contract you say makes them scummy?!



Okaros/Blend - you were pretty quiet towards the end. Not only is that suspicious, it doesn't really help Town. Refusing to muddy the waters further is a decent reason, but just flat-out dropping contribution (unless RL reasons affected you?) compared to what you were doing before is...incriminating.


Pran Chole/Shinrei - I don't want to be too harsh here, but the relatively blind, "I'm sick of this"-type play you exhibited throughout the end-game was disappointing. Following votes, apparently not forming your own opinions on stuff...it's sad to see you play that way. It's also, again, not good for Town because it looks suspicious. Even if you were pissed at whoever took up SCM, letting them win the game isn't a good outcome, surely? Never mind letting them win with barely any opposition - you haven't been going after anyone, after all. Just sitting around, not posting. I mean...c'mon, I KNOW you are a better player than that...


Ryllandaras/Khell - just remember I had you dead to rights, by mechanics, with no way out. If Town wasn't playing dumb mafia, you'd have lost this game so, so hard. XD


Also, all of you played, for some reason, as if the SK entering the game late had no effect. Acting like Okaros was still guaranteed CI, etc. when there was no such guarantee. That was weird. I seemed to be the only person who stuck his hand up and said "this is basically a new game, with a bit of pre-info on how people were playing". Late-game pick-up serial killers or FMs are a NIGHTMARE. They literally reset the thread. And yet it was like...business as usual. Let's keep hunting scum!

And I can't have been the only person having trouble with timelines - some of the stuff being thrown around was VERY sketchy as to which game day it happened on. >.< Gotta be mindful of that stuff, too.




Other than what is literally one of the best examples of atrocious Town end-game play I have seen in a while (granted, I haven't played much lately; is this crap standard now? ), the game was fun. Well put together, D'rek, even if I feel like the Contracts were a bit under-utilized by us.


...go Town? *does unenthusiastic cheerleading dance*

All I really want to say about all this is that your way to win the game was to sit back and do nothing. Yeah, we would have won, but winning like that would have left a dirty taste in my mouth. I'd rather lose spectacularly to a clever Khell than to sit back and do nothing just to win. It sort of runs against the point of Mafia if you ask me.