[Hentos Ilm]

Also guys, I don't think we need to be worried about towm picking up the SK contract. D'rek posted the wall of text and it does contain Clause B2. A townie becoming SK is I guess a direct violation of it, whereas a last scum changing his alignment would be less so.

[Korvalain]

Okaros, on 13 May 2014 - 04:09 AM, said:

Man.... This game just got extremely complicated.

I did not pick up the SK contract. If you're paying attention you should know why.

I am going to bed, not certain I will be around before Day times out so I will

vote Anthras

And let Ryll decide if he wants to lynch him.

I think its likely, BTW, that whoever picked up the SK contract has Rupture and the Find-Proof mechanic.

I'd also like to make a note that in one of my first games ever, suspecting a Find Proof mechanic is something that got me lynched because everyone thought it was a silly idea. Not so silly now is it?

Having read up again I had Okaros as CI after the SCM selection on the basis he had Cryo. Now seeing this vote for the only other CI left in the game - the Forcefield contract holder - I'm not so sure. Someone else holding Cryo can't do a counter-reveal for 3 days because I'm frozen (and no-one wants to defrost me, thanks.) Did you think to buy yourself 3 safe days Okaros?

[Korvalain]

Ryllandaras, on 13 May 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

Korvalain, on 12 May 2014 - 09:21 PM, said:

Korbas, on 12 May 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

Heh. I'm taking a break from something else. But, yeah, I think Korv fucked up.

Korv, what contract did you take on Day 1?

I imagine Day 3 is being gone through with a fine toothed comb right now so STFU.

And like hell am I going to answer that when telling the truth gets me damned because someone else can't follow the rules.

Ok, so I'm going over the Korvalain/Okaros convo after Korv says he was frozen, but I don't understand what's being intimated here?

I was thinking it was RIO that killed Tholen rather than suicide and that therefore someone had either lied about the contract they held or had failed to carry out the price for using it

[Korvalain]

Hentos Ilm, on 13 May 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

Also guys, I don't think we need to be worried about towm picking up the SK contract. D'rek posted the wall of text and it does contain Clause B2. A townie becoming SK is I guess a direct violation of it, whereas a last scum changing his alignment would be less so.

Curious. I am very worried about it being town actually.

[Korvalain]

You know, maybe it is worth Chrono-ing Tholen - hear me out - he's known scum so we can lynch at will and has a NK that if he doesn't use as we direct we lynch him. Two NKs have been taken, one for tonight one for tomorrow night. Odds on them both being taken by the SCM?

[Hentos Ilm]

Ryllandaras, on 13 May 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

Hmm, Tholen must have targetted someone for a kill, why would he not? But he wasn't guarded, and certainly no one was healed. So the one option left is that he did indeed target Pran and managed to kill himself.

The question "why PC for the kill?" does indeed ask itself. I was going to make a case based on it, but...

1) we have a statement that a possession didn't work that ties in here;
2) no counter-claim when it makes sense to do one if you can and ST was taken.


I guess my analysis of the mess on this side of the fence is:

1. I'm town and can't discuss my contract.
2. PC, based on Korbas' claim, is probably less scummy than Korbas, Karatallid or Korvalain.


Now, we have the following.

Anthras - forcefield
Okaros - Cryo? used on Korvalain per Korv's claim. Ties in with Okaros being unable to take a contract.
Ryll - no clue what he holds, but CI.

Hentos - Venesara suspected Hentos to be holding Chronokinesis and it hasn't been counterclaimed.
Pran Chole - held ST, which wasn't counter-claimed, dropped it since.
Karatallid - claimed a guard for nights 2 and 3
Korvalain - refuses to talk about contracts, period. Claims he's frozen.
Korbas - claims he held Possession, current contract unknown.

Contracts taken, and here is where it gets interesting:

Serial Killer contract.
Forcefield - holder suspected to be in group 1 (Anthras)
Chronokinesis - holder suspected to be in group 2
Cryokinesis - holder suspected to be in group 1 (Okaros)
Possession - previous holder known... current holder unknown.
Information Absorption - held, player has to vote. Current candidates: Korbas voting for Karatallid, Hentos voting for Korvalain, probably group 2.
Hormonal Attraction - held, holder unknown but seems likeliest to be town.
Shapeshifting - held, holder unknown
Rupture Organs - held, holder unknown.

Players who dropped contracts:
Korbas (Possession, now ?)
Pran Chole (Spatial, now ? )

What interests me, is Shapeshifting.
I guess whomever picks it up is either town, willing to prove it over their corpse, or it's scum who is afraid of finds on them.

It doesn't make sense for anyone in group 1 to be holding this contract, as they won't vote and it would mean a townie blowing themselves up.
Right now, I think the scum taking it makes the most sense, capitalizing on group 2 wanting to lynch.

In the second case, not voting might be best, either way, we get a lynch.

Remove vote.

[Korvalain]

Hentos Ilm, on 13 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Korvalain - refuses to talk about contracts, period. Claims he's frozen.

Korvalain, on 12 May 2014 - 08:08 PM, said:

Okaros, on 12 May 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 12 May 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

Oh and what can I do to clear myself up?

Well, have you had any contracts which you've Relinquished and can tell us about? Has anything happened to you that you'd like to share? You've been playing the helpful townie, but you haven't really told us anything about yourself the entire game.

I picked up the Anti-Tank yesterday. Please bear with me as my logic at the time was a little convoluted:

Anti-Tank became available, I picked it up. Still not being entirely sure on Hentos at start of Day I submitted prov. to kill him. Recap of thread at the time persuaded me he was probably town and needed to stay alive (to resurrect NK'd town if nothing else till he brought back scum) so I figured that ST was extremely unlikely to be in scum hands after Ryllandaras' CF and that one of the alts targeted by it was almost certainly going to be Hentos in order to redirect NKs away from him. I left the provisional on Hentos, figuring out that whoever had ST is likely more switched on this game than I am and would pick what they considered to be a scummy alt as the other half of the swap, by leaving it on Hentos I would be letting another players judgement make the call - even at the risk of it being me that I NK'd.

I logged in, saw Tholen was dead and thought it paid off very well - till I realised I was frozen therefore couldn't have pulled off the NK. Cue banging head against wall. Now Pran claims use of ST, after I thought calling to be possessed. He claims he swapped himself and Tholen but I know for a fact I never targeted Pran with the Vig, so how did Tholen die?

My freezer can verify I was their target and can confirm I am essentially a RI for the next 3 days.

[Hentos Ilm]

Korvalain, on 13 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

You know, maybe it is worth Chrono-ing Tholen - hear me out - he's known scum so we can lynch at will and has a NK that if he doesn't use as we direct we lynch him. Two NKs have been taken, one for tonight one for tomorrow night. Odds on them both being taken by the SCM?

There are a few points against this.

Firstly, Tholen might be part of group 1 (as player numbers suggest), which means the Chrono-holder can't target him if the Chrono-holder is in group 2. Even if he can, and Tholen would be put in group 1, we'd have a scum killer amidst the CIs. Whoop-ti-doo.
If it is a townie who's SK, it might be Pran Chole, as they certainly dropped their contract. Chrono would undo anything that happened to Tholen, which might include the switcheroo (or not), and if an SK Pran ends up in group 1, all hell breaks loose, there. especially since in group 2, there's also a scum.

Secondly, if scum is an SK, Tholen will know him but won't reveal him because we'd lynch Tholen the second we know the identity of the scum-turned-SK. His life literally depends on withholding that information, giving it at D-day and then winning through a kill.

If the SK is a former townie, we have a 2-people strong scum team on thread, plus an SK.
Not sure how you think that's beneficial. Scum will start killing town and when the groups merge, the three of group 1 would probably have to lynch 2 scum in two days in order to win.

Imho, it seems more and more likely you're scum, Korv, and try and get back your fellow scum, with this post being a signal that the SK isn't you.
I'd say we wait and see, let the day time out, see who dies from Shapeshifting (if this is the SK) and if the game continues past it, we lynch you (or whomever will be confirmed as scum by the finder, if they survive).

[Hentos Ilm]

Also, to gamble that ST would be used on me to redirect away from me (which Pran didn't do)... not very beneficial to town. \


I haven't been 100% tuned into the game so I don't consider my mafia sense crucial to the game, but even so, I find it somewhat callous. There's a decent chance that if ST was used on me, it would be directed towards another townie (whomever it might be), and that at a time where, with the Ven mod-kill still freshly looming, town could use all the numbers we had to begin with.

The obvious town play was to sit and hold tight on to it.

[Korvalain]

Bringing back Tholen will kill Pran instead though, right?

[Hentos Ilm]

Korvalain, on 13 May 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

Bringing back Tholen will kill Pran instead though, right?

I guess. Per the wording, ST would be undone on Tholen, but perhaps not on PC, for whatever that means.
Also, PC was likely town at the moment of using the ability, so for the privilige of lynching him again somewhere along the line (tempo loss), we'd lose someone who was at the very least probably inno at the moment of ability use, and we get a guy who can use a NK on town as well (after all, what has he got to lose?).

I don't see any benefit there and if it were my decision to make, I wouldn't bring him back.
The only people who could sway my opinion, are Ryll and Okaros.

[Pran Chole]

Hentos Ilm, on 13 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

What interests me, is Shapeshifting.
I guess whomever picks it up is either town, willing to prove it over their corpse, or it's scum who is afraid of finds on them.

It doesn't make sense for anyone in group 1 to be holding this contract, as they won't vote and it would mean a townie blowing themselves up.
Right now, I think the scum taking it makes the most sense, capitalizing on group 2 wanting to lynch.

In the second case, not voting might be best, either way, we get a lynch.

Remove vote.

I am not against this play at all. I think scum took the SK, and shapeshifter to hide it.

If I may split hairs though, if scum took the SK contract, they become "an independent player" as D'rek said. Our VC states that town must eliminate scum to win. So, if a final scum has ceased to be scum, and are now "independent", we've won, right.

[Pran Chole]

And I'm going to completely confess, I really don't understand why Okaros has suddenly changed his mind about Korvalain. I don't know what he sees (and Korvalain STILL hasn't answered about Day 1).

I thought going into today it would be a straightforward lynch of Korv, but so much for that.

Edited to change "he" to Korvalain in the (), becuse the pronoun wasn't clear

This post has been edited by Pran Chole: 13 May 2014 - 08:35 AM

[Pran Chole]

Ryllandaras, on 13 May 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

So Tholen dies from his own kill.

Not the first time Brujah has offed himself in mafia.

As for why I made that play, I didn't get the impression that Demelain was the one who possessed me (although it's possible), and I got the impression that the possessor was going to try and off me. Paranoia, perhaps, but I was emboldened by my own sense that Tholen was scum, so I made a guess, hoping to use ST as a vig. I also figured that even if I wasn't targeted by a kill, by targeting myself I wasn't going to be harming any beneficial stuff that might have been flying about. The pin to the whole thing was I believed Tholen was scum, and oh yes that was satisfying .

[Karatallid]

Korvalain, on 13 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

You know, maybe it is worth Chrono-ing Tholen - hear me out - he's known scum so we can lynch at will and has a NK that if he doesn't use as we direct we lynch him. Two NKs have been taken, one for tonight one for tomorrow night. Odds on them both being taken by the SCM?

You're fucking kidding me, right? Revive scum?

Vote Korvalain

[Karatallid]

Hentos Ilm, on 13 May 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 13 May 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

This is a convoluted mess, which usually means someone is lying. EXCEPT for the fact that no one has jumped out to counter claim.

Korvalain says that THEY held the anti-tank vig on day 3, and they targetted Hentos. But then someone froze them. That someone, seemingly, being Okaros. Let's put aside the fact, for now, that targetting Hentos for any reason was idiotic.

Pran Chole says he used ST switch themselves and Tholen.

So Tholen dies from his own kill.

Karatallid says he guarded Venesara night 2 and Anthras night 3. Is this possible? What about night 1?

Back to Korvalain - doesn't want to say what contract they held on day 1. Why?

Their night 1 is their current contract?

Can you not reveal that you held a contract on Night 1 if you have relinquished it in between and make no claim as to it being your current contract? Just curious. Technically he could still talk about his night one contract regardless of what his current contract is, I think. Not sure, though.

[Hentos Ilm]

Karatallid, on 13 May 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Korvalain, on 13 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

You know, maybe it is worth Chrono-ing Tholen - hear me out - he's known scum so we can lynch at will and has a NK that if he doesn't use as we direct we lynch him. Two NKs have been taken, one for tonight one for tomorrow night. Odds on them both being taken by the SCM?

You're fucking kidding me, right? Revive scum?

Vote Korvalain

Please read on to the point where I have a theory about Shapeshifter being picked up by the SK.
If Korv's cryo'd, he might be temporarily harmless, too.

[Karatallid]

Hentos Ilm, on 13 May 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 13 May 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Korvalain, on 13 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

You know, maybe it is worth Chrono-ing Tholen - hear me out - he's known scum so we can lynch at will and has a NK that if he doesn't use as we direct we lynch him. Two NKs have been taken, one for tonight one for tomorrow night. Odds on them both being taken by the SCM?

You're fucking kidding me, right? Revive scum?

Vote Korvalain

Please read on to the point where I have a theory about Shapeshifter being picked up by the SK.
If Korv's cryo'd, he might be temporarily harmless, too.

1. IF Korv is Cryo'd, he's still scum. If he's not cryo'd, he's still a big threat to Town.
2. IF Korv is the SK, he's part of our win condition.
3. IF he's using Shapeshifter as the SK, it's meaningless, as he'll still be dead.

The ONLY benefit to all this if the SK or scum are holding shapeshifter, in which case they get lynched.

HOWEVER, under current circumstances, as long as we only have 3 people voting Korv (lynching him), then ANOTHER three votes will go, as per the wording of the Contract, to the person holding Shapeshifter (if they're on our side of the wall).

Ergo, whoever took Shapeshifter, if they're in this party, more or less doom themselves today unless we have stray votes.

Win. Win.

WCS is that the Shapeshifter themselves votes elsewhere. At which point, we KNOW who had Shapeshifter, ergo we KNOW who is likely to be scum/SK.

Work for you?

[Karatallid]

Eh, scratch that.

I misread the number of players on this side of the wall (counted you twice, Hentos!) so that won't work. Bah.

[Karatallid]

Regardless, Korv's suggestion to revive a scum player is fucking idiotic and deserves a lynch, regardless of however else he's already made himself a target.

However, I don't disagree with the logic Hentos has put forward (previous post being based on incorrect counting) regarding whoever has Shapeshifter getting targetted.