[Dadding]

Boom, just finished. Apologies if any of these questions have been asked before. I've looked but haven't managed to find anything on them.


Big Bad Bakune
What do the murders that Bakune investigates have to do with the rest of the story? Are they somehow related to the bodies that Devaleth and Greymane stumble across in Ruse? Greymane mentions something about them being a warning from Mael, what's that about? And what's Ghevel's interest in the bodies (from the prologue)? How do they relate to the lady / the crippled god? Bunch of questions here, I feel like I missed the Aha! moment where this story arch is concerned.

Rock-on Stonewielder
So Greymane's sword is kind of like Brood's hammer, being aligned with Burn and all that (he says something like - Burn protect me or something right before striking). But he gets it from the Stormriders in the first place? Does that mean the Stormriders are aligned with Burn in a way?
Greymane also mentions his doubts about letting the Stormriders through, but ultimately seems to believe they will "strike at the lady" - it then says "Just as he should have when he had the chance". When did he previously have this chance? Some off-screen moment back during his first invasion that's not really elaborated on?

You did what, for who, for how many jellybeans?
Ipshank is the priest that sets up shop in the prologue, I hope I got that right. But what god is he in line with now?
On the same note, are all of Ivanr's followers / soldiers dedicated to Dessembrae? Or is it a movement that encompasses all of the gods (minus The Lady)?


I had a major ASOIAF vibe reading through this book. What with the undermanned wall, the "one true god" idea, and the "wildfire" battle on the sea. Favorite ICE book yet though. That is, ignoring all the typos.

This post has been edited by Dadding: 19 April 2014 - 07:41 PM

[worry]

Basically the church is feeding young women to The Lady, as she has adopted something similar to the Elder God practice of blood ritual/sacrifice. In other words the church isn't as ignorant of The Lady's true corrupt nature, and is in fact complicit.

I believe Greymane's first chance was indeed during the first invasion.

And Ipshank isn't working for any god now, just as he says. He's a secular humanist. Ivanr's followers, it's complicated. It's an army, and there are all kinds of reasons people join -- revenge for one, which comes to play late in the book when they're ransacking that defeated city. But it's more or less focused on Dessembrae, imo, when it's focused on any deity at all.

[Dadding]

worry, on 19 April 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

Basically the church is feeding young women to The Lady, as she has adopted something similar to the Elder God practice of blood ritual/sacrifice. In other words the church isn't as ignorant of The Lady's true corrupt nature

Gotcha - the church is evil. That would also imply that the high-ranking Stormguards at the Sky Tower are complicit because a body was found there..

worry, on 19 April 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

And Ipshank isn't working for any god now, just as he says. He's a secular humanist.

Glad to see someone is fighting for mankind.

[nacht]

Dadding, on 19 April 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

Boom, just finished. Apologies if any of these questions have been asked before. I've looked but haven't managed to find anything on them.


Big Bad Bakune
What do the murders that Bakune investigates have to do with the rest of the story? Are they somehow related to the bodies that Devaleth and Greymane stumble across in Ruse? Greymane mentions something about them being a warning from Mael, what's that about? And what's Ghevel's interest in the bodies (from the prologue)? How do they relate to the lady / the crippled god? Bunch of questions here, I feel like I missed the Aha! moment where this story arch is concerned.

Basically the lady is not as nice as her followers/missionaries make her out to be.
The lady is not the crippled god. She became powerful using parts of the crippled god. Then she gets stronger from the worship in Korel and the sacrifices on the Wall.
The lady is superstrong in Korel and has magic sensors to detect worship (and warren use) of other gods. Yet, there is a resistance to her especially from people whose race predates the lady's dominance. Ghevel is a part of that (the Drenn people)

Quote

‘I am suggesting worse. Note the bruises at the throat. The cuts at the wrists. It has been a long time, has it not, Assessor, since the one who you claim protects you from the sea-demons, the Riders, has demanded her payment, yes?’
‘Drenn filth!’ Karien’el grasped the man by the neck. Iron scraped wood as his sword swung free of its scabbard.

Dadding, on 19 April 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

Rock-on Stonewielder
So Greymane's sword is kind of like Brood's hammer, being aligned with Burn and all that (he says something like - Burn protect me or something right before striking). But he gets it from the Stormriders in the first place? Does that mean the Stormriders are aligned with Burn in a way?
Greymane also mentions his doubts about letting the Stormriders through, but ultimately seems to believe they will "strike at the lady" - it then says "Just as he should have when he had the chance". When did he previously have this chance? Some off-screen moment back during his first invasion that's not really elaborated on?

The Stormriders have possession of the sword but this is not sufficient proof that they are aligned with Burn. Actually, they are unable to use it directly themselves. Basically Greymane could have brought down the wall using the sword at anytime (which he acquired during the last Malaz invasion). But until this point he feared the consequences (rightly). Very much like Brood fears using his hammer.

Dadding, on 19 April 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

You did what, for who, for how many jellybeans?
Ipshank is the priest that sets up shop in the prologue, I hope I got that right. But what god is he in line with now?
On the same note, are all of Ivanr's followers / soldiers dedicated to Dessembrae? Or is it a movement that encompasses all of the gods (minus The Lady)?


I had a major ASOIAF vibe reading through this book. What with the undermanned wall, the "one true god" idea, and the "wildfire" battle on the sea. Favorite ICE book yet though. That is, ignoring all the typos.

Ipshank is nominally a priest of the Crippled God.

Quote

The man turned. A smile pulled up his uneven lips and distorted the faded boar’s head tattoo. His voice strengthened. ‘Why, since you ask … Let me tell you about my God. His domain is the downtrodden and dispossessed. The poor and the sick. To him social standing, riches and prestige are meaningless empty veils. His first message is that we are all weak. We all are flawed. We all are mortal. And that we must learn to accept this.’

I would think it is a resistance movement of various factions unified against the lady (think of the brothers and the sisters who use warrens of various gods). Ivanr is their symbol but he is not the head of the resistance. The resistance predates Ivanr.

[worry]

Never thought of Ipshank as a CG acolyte. Interesting read of him, but it at least has standing.

[Aptorian]

It's been some years since I read Stonewielder but I thought the conclusion to the story was that Ipshank in fact isn't a priest of the CG. Rather... my memory is foggy, he either worships himself or he worships the absence of worship. Something like that.

Damn it, now I have to go look that up.

EDIT:

Ok, after skimming and flipping aroun in the book for a while, my conclusion is that he pretended to a priest of the CG for a time or maybe he saw something in the faith but changed his mind.

During his talk with the Lady in child form on page 388 they have this exchange:

Quote

"You have reconsidered my offer?" the child was saying.
"You know the answer to that", came the man's coarse gravelly voice.
"A pity. Now you are bereft. You have betrayed me, and then that god you clove to... the one your grunting ancestors squirmed before... the beast... you rejected him as well! Such an honour he offered you! Destriant! Arch-priest! And now he is cast down. Who could possibly be next for you? Truly, I am curious. Who will you run to next?
"None. I've made up my own".
A very un-girlish laugh echoed through the chapel. "Your own? You cannot do that!"
"I have done so. And I have sent it out into the world to make its own way."

I can't be bothered to look up what his world view was again but I think it revolved around the absence of worship or self-worship.

This post has been edited by Apt Hoc: 20 April 2014 - 08:15 PM

[nacht]

Apt Hoc, on 20 April 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

It's been some years since I read Stonewielder but I thought the conclusion to the story was that Ipshank in fact isn't a priest of the CG. Rather... my memory is foggy, he either worships himself or he worships the absence of worship. Something like that.

Damn it, now I have to go look that up.

EDIT:

Ok, after skimming and flipping aroun in the book for a while, my conclusion is that he pretended to a priest of the CG for a time or maybe he saw something in the faith but changed his mind.

During his talk with the Lady in child form on page 388 they have this exchange:

Quote

"You have reconsidered my offer?" the child was saying.
"You know the answer to that", came the man's coarse gravelly voice.
"A pity. Now you are bereft. You have betrayed me, and then that god you clove to... the one your grunting ancestors squirmed before... the beast... you rejected him as well! Such an honour he offered you! Destriant! Arch-priest! And now he is cast down. Who could possibly be next for you? Truly, I am curious. Who will you run to next?
"None. I've made up my own".
A very un-girlish laugh echoed through the chapel. "Your own? You cannot do that!"
"I have done so. And I have sent it out into the world to make its own way."

I can't be bothered to look up what his world view was again but I think it revolved around the absence of worship or self-worship.

It seems that his main goal was to destroy the lady by stealing the relic and the temple he setup was just a diversion.

Quote

Manask elbowed Ipshank. ‘All finished with this nonsense now? A lifetime’s quest fulfilled, yes?’
‘Let’s hope so,’ the priest ground out.

[The Unfound]

Greymane states at one point that the Riders found the sword on the bottom of the ocean. So I wouldn't think that aligns them with Burn. I would suggest that either she put it there simply to be found or perhaps somebody like Brood had it and got tired of the responsibility and tossed it where they thought nobody would be able to get it.

[D'rek]

It seems Ipshank was at some time aligned with The Lady, whether he was a priest of her or just a general Korelri follower or something, and after that is when he became a priest of Fener and allegedly Fener's Destriant. I think soon after that is when Greymane's other commanders turned on him and Ipshank disappeared.

I don't think he ever actually tried to worship the CG at any point. But when he returns in SW ICE does leave the possibility open by deliberately pointing out the similarities in Ipshank's atheist priesthood and the CG's own acceptance of the broken. I think ICE just does it to mess with us, though

[PLUGO]

With Regards to Ipshank I read it as first a Priest of The Lady, then Fenar (was this around the time Hiboric was cast out?). Finally, The Crippled God, but more in a Bonehunter fashion rather than priesthood in Darujistan. But perhaps he was speaking euphemistically and is really worshipping Burn.