[Galayn Lord]

Eloth, on 24 April 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 24 April 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

I'm thinking we have to be careful if we actually have 3 scum then thats a 37% chance of hitting scum. Maybe we adopt the WCS and look at it like this:

I have in my mind two candidates that looked gray all game: Denul and Shadow.

I also agree, Eloth is starting to look a lot more active, pushing the direction of focus. I think theres a chance he's playing an excited symp role?


Of the remaining players I'd expect these three to be the most likely candidates for scum. If OL is saying what I think he's saying maybe I should get behind a lynch on Denul because I'm starting to second guess myself. I can't see anything in my re-reads to peg OL or Bek as scum. I already highlighted how helpful Locks posts were and maybe if I look at Denul as scum Tiam fits the profile for angry but dedicated town.

Ok I'm gonna


Remove Vote

I'm on for a few hours. Who would you guys say make your top 3 and who has your vote? I'm thinking we need to vote for the master but nailing any scum would be best and maybe we need to vote for the most common candidate?

This is a really quick vote/remove vote, without much logic other than "Oops, I guess I should have waited to vote..." Nothing else really stands out but the vote/remove is the scummiest thing I've seen from you all game.

Really? did you read my basis for the vote originally?

Galayn Lord, on 24 April 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

<snip>

Shadow made a good candidate three days in a row, him and Denul are dodging lynches and obviously my gut has me thinking Shadow more likely than Denul because of his odd voting activity. My major worry is how many bad calls we've made. we have consistently missed scum this entire game. That has not happened in any game I was involved in. Either we're too quick to throw away our strategies or we are looking at the wrong types of players.

I'm gonna put a vote on shadow for now:

Vote Shadow

as he looked scummy to me pretty early in and if I fail to get to a PC again I think I'm most comfortable with this vote. Will look into other players, the likes of OL and Bek I've yet to review and that's no good. expect more from me at lunch or maybe days end when I get the car back and finally get home.

edit: candidate

I had missed a day completely without a vote and decided I'm gonna plant my vote where I felt it would have gone the previous day. I've since worked on from there. Alot of rereading happened since then and my Remove has a purpose. I still peg Shadow as likely scum but if we're up against a chance of three scum players town should be deliberate on the lynch choice, It might be our last so I want to get a consensus. We cant afford to have RI players scattered on the vote.

I figure if we have a team of Scum they're probably trying to drive us away and distract us from a particular player. Currently I'm starting to have second thoughts about Denul and the more reviews I read on him the less certain I am of shadow.

[Galayn Lord]

Okral Lom, on 24 April 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

Interesting post I spotted from Denul here (I've snipped some of his discussion of Korabas and Kessobahn):

Denul, on 21 April 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

Other people-wise, Shadow still looks almost too scummy, while Tiam still pings my scumdar with his manner of always talking like he is pushing a vote but not always following through/responding to rebuttals of his accusations (albeit this was more of a thing days 1 and 2, not as bad day 3). I'd be happy to vote for either of them. On the other hand, a voice in the back of my head whispers "smoooooth" every time I think of Bek, Lock or Okral right now. Lastly, Amp and Rikkter continue to be low in both posts and content.

So there's lots to look at and I hope we can all get right back into the spirit of things after the long weekend break ends. I'm planning to do a full read-up tomorrow night and see what comes out of the woodwork for me. For now, good night!

I like this sort of post because I think it's a good way of gauging someone's thought processes about the other players. As scum, it can be difficult to produce them naturally (particularly if you have knowledge of fellow scum players that you are trying to hide). I would quite like to see this sort of list from other players (as I think it would be helpful), so I'll lead off with my own shortly.

Beyond that statement of appreciation, there are some notable things about Denul's list. First of all, he doesn't mention Eloth or GL at all in this post. Is there a good reason for that? Given that subsequently he was casting doubt on Eloth, we may be able to rule out that he was symping him (although, distancing?). I don't remember any interaction between him and GL though. Of the players he does mention, Ampelas and Rikkter have both bought it, but all the others are still in the game. There is perhaps a slight indication that he is trying to pull attention away from Shadow here (by calling him "almost too scummy"), but nothing to signify a bias towards or away from any of the other players.

In conclusion, I would say that if Denul is a symp, he is either symping GL or Shadow. I have not decided for myself whether I think that's actually what's going on, just throwing that out there as a hypothetical. I'll come up with my own opinion list shortly.


EDIT: Getting the parentheses to match up.

Quite the Cross post from me.

I agree I have not been interacting much with Eloth, though I could say the same of Bek, Rikkter and Ampelas? I just haven't been on as much as the rest of you and only converse with players that question my reasoning or respond to it. The four I've mentioned have avoided engaging my posts and I can't really point as to why? There was no real need to put super scrutiny on those players because they didn't seem to produce content I felt I needed to engage in either but as I say right now Eloth looks pretty pushy this day and looks pretty scummy based solely on behaviour.

Okral Lom, on 24 April 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

<snip>


I do agree that Denul's behaviour taken at face value has seemed reasonable. However, Tiamatha's point about deflection holds some merit with me - Denul started talking about warlord symps, and this essentially cast doubt on the validity of any investigation into symp connections. I know I stopped looking for that sort of thing as closely once that became the dominant paradigm I was viewing the game through. (Or rather, I didn't really talk about those connections on thread for fear of giving scum unnecessary hints).

That Denul missed me and Eloth is looking dubious in my own perspective against the underlined. There is no reason given and your interpretation of it looks designed to have me setup up alongside the likes of shadow. I cant be sure how to read that jump. Maybe you can help me understand why Denuls ommission of my name in a list weighs so much to you when I was starting to think you felt the opposite and mistrusted Denuls reads. Seems like an about face on your own logic which is a scum-like shift of opinion.

[Shadow]

I am taking off for the day. I expect more of the same for tomorrow. I think that Denul has said scummy shit and I think that we should have lynched him earlier in the game.

I feel like

Lock and to a certain extent Eloth suddenly stepped up there game over the last day. The interaction between Lock and Amp looks positively horrible in hindsight. I feel that Denul has been scummy since day 1 and Tiam has had a lot of scummy moments. Of the other three Bek Okhan, Galayn Lord, and Okral Lom I have next to no read at all.

[Shadow]

This kind of stood out for me. With time running down on the day Lock says that he would vote for Shadow. As a lot of people were saying. However then 5 minutes later he votes for Rikkter and that starts the rikkter lynch. Which would make sense if Lock was scum and thought that perhaps I was his symp or if he was a symp. Then he would want to keep me around so that the town would be focused on me. Olar had a write up the previous page and I think that several other people have done write ups on me. So making a nice statement about why he should vote for me and then voting for Rikkter is scummy.

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Out of Rikkter and Shadow, if I voted purely based on their posting, and disregarded all the timing (educated) speculation, then I'd only have the choice to vote for Shadow. They have certainly said more questionable things, and when they haven't, they've kept a low profile. But a large part of the reason why I would have to vote for Shadow is because Rikkter has volunteered hardly anything, so there is almost nothing concrete post-wise to pin on them.

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

Bah, I'm going to


Vote Rikkter


The killings (non-killings in Korabas' case) match that of someone without full awareness of the game. Rikkter also really seemed to want to feel out how others would react to Korabas' reveal, before putting in a half-hearted vote which they later removed. I'll be around later to change if need be. I'm going to be absent for a couple of hours though.

I am discounting the interaction between him and amp because that is WIFOM territory to the extreme. But I feel that Lock could be scum. If not a scum killer then a symp. The above post and then vote is a scummy move. And with that I am out.

Vote for Lock

[Tiamatha]

@ OL, my feelings on Amp were tied to the desire to lynch Korabas immeadiatrely, Shadows take on the situation reads more scummy to me, and he has looked more scummy over all.

in just into bed here, will be floating about well before end of day (think we're still 12+ hours away)

[Tiamatha]

cross post, interesting vote and post from shadow.

Locks seemed quite solid to me, but was a key proponent in offering the Rikkter option up for a lynch. That would read more sympish to me than a killer, just shifting the focus for everyone. Need to go back and see the post in context

[Shadow]

Tiamatha, on 24 April 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

@ OL, my feelings on Amp were tied to the desire to lynch Korabas immeadiatrely, Shadows take on the situation reads more scummy to me, and he has looked more scummy over all.

in just into bed here, will be floating about well before end of day (think we're still 12+ hours away)

My take on what situation? The Korbas reveal and lynch and what not. I ended up agreeing that regardless with 3 warlords the day would be better spent looking for scum then taking away a VC. Of course that was before Korbas went even more off the deep end and everyone ended up lynching him. I still think that PS should have modkilled him when he revealed. But that is because if I was a mod I would have.

[Tiamatha]

what the actual fuck. My phone has dropped two posts of mine down the toilet.

short version. Shadow - amp didn't get that into the arguement with me, Denul even agreed with me, you took half a page of argueing before you acknowledged rushing to nail korabas and not scum huntign was a bad idea. Amps dead so you're left of that scene.

Six votes Rikkter: Lock, Eloth, Tiam, Okral Lom, Ampelas, Denul

Denul was actually first on, pulled back, voted me (because I was getting attention from bek? Possibly) then hammered.

of that list I'd vote Denul at the drop of a hat, the only thing held me back yesterday from.voting him was because my other favourite suspect had a vote on him

[Tiamatha]

will be back to vote in the morning

[Bek Okhan]

Sorry guys, I'm swamped under uni work at the moment. Hopefully I'll have time to catch up tonight, but it's also a long weekend for me this weekend and I'm going away, so I can't promise I'll have time to post much until after the weekend break.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5

8 hours and 25 minutes are left in Day 5

8 players are left alive.

Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Lock, Okral Lom, Shadow, Tiamatha

1 vote Lock: Shadow

Players not voting.

Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Lock, Okral Lom, Tiamatha

[Lock]

Shadow, on 24 April 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

This kind of stood out for me. With time running down on the day Lock says that he would vote for Shadow. As a lot of people were saying. However then 5 minutes later he votes for Rikkter and that starts the rikkter lynch. Which would make sense if Lock was scum and thought that perhaps I was his symp or if he was a symp. Then he would want to keep me around so that the town would be focused on me. Olar had a write up the previous page and I think that several other people have done write ups on me. So making a nice statement about why he should vote for me and then voting for Rikkter is scummy.

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Out of Rikkter and Shadow, if I voted purely based on their posting, and disregarded all the timing (educated) speculation, then I'd only have the choice to vote for Shadow. They have certainly said more questionable things, and when they haven't, they've kept a low profile. But a large part of the reason why I would have to vote for Shadow is because Rikkter has volunteered hardly anything, so there is almost nothing concrete post-wise to pin on them.

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

Bah, I'm going to


Vote Rikkter


The killings (non-killings in Korabas' case) match that of someone without full awareness of the game. Rikkter also really seemed to want to feel out how others would react to Korabas' reveal, before putting in a half-hearted vote which they later removed. I'll be around later to change if need be. I'm going to be absent for a couple of hours though.

I am discounting the interaction between him and amp because that is WIFOM territory to the extreme. But I feel that Lock could be scum. If not a scum killer then a symp. The above post and then vote is a scummy move. And with that I am out.

Vote for Lock

Erm, so I'm scummy because I didn't vote for you??? Of course that only really makes sense if you ARE scum, you do realise that, right?

I outlined that if I was choosing based ONLY on post analysis, I'd have to vote for you (Shadow) because 1) you've said more dodgy things, and 2) Rikkter had been largely silent, so not much to incriminate them on.

However, as I stated when I voted, I voted not only on post analysis, but using the various timing cases which I had been working with throughout the game, which is why I went for Rikkter. Of course, with hindsight, I wish I hadn't

[Lock]

Tiamatha, on 24 April 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

cross post, interesting vote and post from shadow.

Locks seemed quite solid to me, but was a key proponent in offering the Rikkter option up for a lynch. That would read more sympish to me than a killer, just shifting the focus for everyone. Need to go back and see the post in context

'Proponent' almost sounds like pushing. I never bullied others into going for Rikkter, and more than once I said I was amenable to switching votes. Everyone piled on Rikkter without me doing any cajoling whatsoever.

[Lock]

Shadow, on 24 April 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

I am taking off for the day. I expect more of the same for tomorrow. I think that Denul has said scummy shit and I think that we should have lynched him earlier in the game.

I feel like

Lock and to a certain extent Eloth suddenly stepped up there game over the last day. The interaction between Lock and Amp looks positively horrible in hindsight. I feel that Denul has been scummy since day 1 and Tiam has had a lot of scummy moments. Of the other three Bek Okhan, Galayn Lord, and Okral Lom I have next to no read at all.

Yes, it does (to the bolded bit). Which should clue you in as to why it wasn't me

(Yeah, yeah, WIFOM this, WIFOM that, seems like that's been the buzzword of this game. Well, you can call it WIFOM, I call it logical reasoning).

[Denul]

Galayn Lord, on 24 April 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

Oh geez that was a bad day for me. I'm sorry I wasn't in for most of the day but we've really had the bricks this side, my car being screwed up made it impossible for me to drive home last night and my phone died shortly after work. I'm at a PC now but need to make up for hours lost yesterday. Will try post opinions via phone at office breaktimes.

Ok I read through the day and kinda surprised we lynched Rikkter considering all the alternatives, I'd have thought shadow the more likely candidate of the two I highlighted yesterday but wasn't on to be heard so I can't really talk. Rikkter has been offline but shadow has been present, Again Shadow ignores the lynch train and goes for Denul.

I agree with Lock alot. this time though I think maybe we're missing something thats plain infront of us.

I have no real idea whats happening with Okral or Bek because neither have felt scummy to me. I'd have said the same of Eloth save that post he made about warlords which I thought echoed Ampelas whom I also pegged as a likely warlord.

Shadow made a good candidate three days in a row, him and Denul are dodging lynches and obviously my gut has me thinking Shadow more likely than Denul because of his odd voting activity. My major worry is how many bad calls we've made. we have consistently missed scum this entire game. That has not happened in any game I was involved in. Either we're too quick to throw away our strategies or we are looking at the wrong types of players.

I'm gonna put a vote on shadow for now:

Vote Shadow

as he looked scummy to me pretty early in and if I fail to get to a PC again I think I'm most comfortable with this vote. Will look into other players, the likes of OL and Bek I've yet to review and that's no good. expect more from me at lunch or maybe days end when I get the car back and finally get home.

edit: candidate

Can you really say I'm "dodging lynches" when there hasn't been more than a single vote on me at a time since day 1? Seems like a biiiit of an exaggeration!

[Denul]

Lock, on 24 April 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Shadow, on 24 April 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

I am taking off for the day. I expect more of the same for tomorrow. I think that Denul has said scummy shit and I think that we should have lynched him earlier in the game.

I feel like

Lock and to a certain extent Eloth suddenly stepped up there game over the last day. The interaction between Lock and Amp looks positively horrible in hindsight. I feel that Denul has been scummy since day 1 and Tiam has had a lot of scummy moments. Of the other three Bek Okhan, Galayn Lord, and Okral Lom I have next to no read at all.

Yes, it does (to the bolded bit). Which should clue you in as to why it wasn't me

(Yeah, yeah, WIFOM this, WIFOM that, seems like that's been the buzzword of this game. Well, you can call it WIFOM, I call it logical reasoning).

By that logic then, Eloth would not be scum either since she made a big ol' case on Amp right before he was offed, no?

[Lock]

Lock, on 24 April 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 24 April 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

cross post, interesting vote and post from shadow.

Locks seemed quite solid to me, but was a key proponent in offering the Rikkter option up for a lynch. That would read more sympish to me than a killer, just shifting the focus for everyone. Need to go back and see the post in context

'Proponent' almost sounds like pushing. I never bullied others into going for Rikkter, and more than once I said I was amenable to switching votes. Everyone piled on Rikkter without me doing any cajoling whatsoever.

In fact, what should be looked at MUCH more closely is why everyone decided on Rikkter in the end. Nearing the end of the day, Rikkter wasn't even the one with the most votes - he only had my one single vote (Tiam and Shadow had 2 each, I think - will have to go back and check - and both were being consistently talked about as prime lynch candidates). But then the switch happened. Why, with a couple of hours left, did someone with a higher number of votes not get lynched?

[Lock]

Denul, on 24 April 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Lock, on 24 April 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Shadow, on 24 April 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

I am taking off for the day. I expect more of the same for tomorrow. I think that Denul has said scummy shit and I think that we should have lynched him earlier in the game.

I feel like

Lock and to a certain extent Eloth suddenly stepped up there game over the last day. The interaction between Lock and Amp looks positively horrible in hindsight. I feel that Denul has been scummy since day 1 and Tiam has had a lot of scummy moments. Of the other three Bek Okhan, Galayn Lord, and Okral Lom I have next to no read at all.

Yes, it does (to the bolded bit). Which should clue you in as to why it wasn't me

(Yeah, yeah, WIFOM this, WIFOM that, seems like that's been the buzzword of this game. Well, you can call it WIFOM, I call it logical reasoning).

By that logic then, Eloth would not be scum either since she made a big ol' case on Amp right before he was offed, no?

Would not be Kenshiro, yes I agree.

But I never said Eloth is Kenshiro - in fact I've outright called him a possible symp, highlighting Ampelas for their master.

[Denul]

Lock, on 24 April 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

Denul, on 24 April 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Lock, on 24 April 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Shadow, on 24 April 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

I am taking off for the day. I expect more of the same for tomorrow. I think that Denul has said scummy shit and I think that we should have lynched him earlier in the game.

I feel like

Lock and to a certain extent Eloth suddenly stepped up there game over the last day. The interaction between Lock and Amp looks positively horrible in hindsight. I feel that Denul has been scummy since day 1 and Tiam has had a lot of scummy moments. Of the other three Bek Okhan, Galayn Lord, and Okral Lom I have next to no read at all.

Yes, it does (to the bolded bit). Which should clue you in as to why it wasn't me

(Yeah, yeah, WIFOM this, WIFOM that, seems like that's been the buzzword of this game. Well, you can call it WIFOM, I call it logical reasoning).

By that logic then, Eloth would not be scum either since she made a big ol' case on Amp right before he was offed, no?

Would not be Kenshiro, yes I agree.

But I never said Eloth is Kenshiro - in fact I've outright called him a possible symp, highlighting Ampelas for their master.

Well, I think we can all agree Ampelas is not Kenshiro. So who do you suggest Eloth was really symping then? Or do you no longer believe Eloth is a symp at all?

[Lock]

Denul, on 24 April 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

Well, I think we can all agree Ampelas is not Kenshiro. So who do you suggest Eloth was really symping then? Or do you no longer believe Eloth is a symp at all?

You've lost me. What are you on about? I never said Ampelas was Kenshiro. I said there is the possibility that Eloth, as a symp, highlighted Ampelas as a good target for their master, whoever that may be. Of course, considering that you highlighted Eloth's post even further, you are probably just as good a possibility for a symp as Eloth.