[Alkend]

Alright, now we got GL as PI*.

That means my suspicions return to Denul and one other person, who I will reveal once I have a real computer and can make a proper case.



*the I stands for "idiot"

[Eloth]

While I don't wish to drop my Alkend and Ampelas suspicions (probably more the latter than the former now), I'm thinking the scum, if they were around (and the Kilava kill suggests they were) may well have stayed silent letting the accusations fly after the reveal.

Denul was around just before timeout, but they also did say they would disappear before end of day.

After that, Tiamatha and Korabas were both around about an hour and a half before the end of day, but neither have commented since.

[Galayn Lord]

Look, I'm not going to make this a pissing match. deal with it.

I am eying you Alk due to Eloth's case. He had some good points (that I need to cross check etc) but that suspicion coupled with your cast aspersions made me think going after you and OL as the most obvious next step.

[Galayn Lord]

 Alkend, on 18 March 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

Alright, now we got GL as PI*.

That means my suspicions return to Denul and one other person, who I will reveal once I have a real computer and can make a proper case.



*the I stands for "idiot"

Idiot or not, here is the hot potato....

Go!

[Galayn Lord]

My, changed a poopy diaper and survived a lynch and NK. Jeeze. Not what he wrote in the books at all....

[Ampelas]

 Eloth, on 18 March 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

While I don't wish to drop my Alkend and Ampelas suspicions (probably more the latter than the former now), I'm thinking the scum, if they were around (and the Kilava kill suggests they were) may well have stayed silent letting the accusations fly after the reveal.

Denul was around just before timeout, but they also did say they would disappear before end of day.

After that, Tiamatha and Korabas were both around about an hour and a half before the end of day, but neither have commented since.

I don't know, if I were scum I would have left Kilava and GL to continue to cause controversy on thread. This suggests to me that the killer wasn't around at the end of the day, although I will agree that if that was the case it was dumb luck that Kilava was chosen.

Ugh, this is why I hate talking about NKs...

[Okaros]

 Ampelas, on 18 March 2014 - 10:44 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 18 March 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

While I don't wish to drop my Alkend and Ampelas suspicions (probably more the latter than the former now), I'm thinking the scum, if they were around (and the Kilava kill suggests they were) may well have stayed silent letting the accusations fly after the reveal.

Denul was around just before timeout, but they also did say they would disappear before end of day.

After that, Tiamatha and Korabas were both around about an hour and a half before the end of day, but neither have commented since.

I don't know, if I were scum I would have left Kilava and GL to continue to cause controversy on thread. This suggests to me that the killer wasn't around at the end of the day, although I will agree that if that was the case it was dumb luck that Kilava was chosen.

Ugh, this is why I hate talking about NKs...

This is just WIFOM. It's just as likely the killers WERE around and killed Kila a to sow confusion or confirm the reveal or something.

[Okaros]

 Okral Lom, on 18 March 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

 Galayn Lord, on 18 March 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

PS didn't say the roles were only m&p roles

It's not an unreasonable assumption since it's a scum vs town game.

I still think you're either suspicious or really thick.

It's not an M&P game, it's TMDI 4. Check the general definition if you aren't familiar.

[Galayn Lord]

Regardless, I'm dead on the morrow unless they think they have a better target. Or unless I don't end up threatening them much. I'll try to get busy tonight in fleshing out some cases.

Edit: Even though Diablo II just came in the mail...

This post has been edited by Galayn Lord: 18 March 2014 - 10:53 PM

[Okaros]

 Okral Lom, on 18 March 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Makes sense.

GL, why are you voting Alkend? I know you think they're scummy but you haven't provided any reasoning that I can other than 'they found my extremely suspicious reveal suspicious'.

Let me ask you - why are you defending him?

[Okaros]

 Galayn Lord, on 18 March 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

Look, I'm not going to make this a pissing match. deal with it.

I am eying you Alk due to Eloth's case. He had some good points (that I need to cross check etc) but that suspicion coupled with your cast aspersions made me think going after you and OL as the most obvious next step.

I agree with this and I'm putting a vote down for now (sorry for any typos, on phone).

Vote Alkend

I do want to make a more comprehensive statement but can't till I get to a computer.

[Ampelas]

 Okaros, on 18 March 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

 Ampelas, on 18 March 2014 - 10:44 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 18 March 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

While I don't wish to drop my Alkend and Ampelas suspicions (probably more the latter than the former now), I'm thinking the scum, if they were around (and the Kilava kill suggests they were) may well have stayed silent letting the accusations fly after the reveal.

Denul was around just before timeout, but they also did say they would disappear before end of day.

After that, Tiamatha and Korabas were both around about an hour and a half before the end of day, but neither have commented since.

I don't know, if I were scum I would have left Kilava and GL to continue to cause controversy on thread. This suggests to me that the killer wasn't around at the end of the day, although I will agree that if that was the case it was dumb luck that Kilava was chosen.

Ugh, this is why I hate talking about NKs...

This is just WIFOM. It's just as likely the killers WERE around and killed Kila a to sow confusion or confirm the reveal or something.

Sure, but so were Eloth's comments, which was my point. Maybe I need more sleep or something, I haven't been very good at making my point clear in this game.

[Okral Lom]

 Okaros, on 18 March 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

 Okral Lom, on 18 March 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Makes sense.

GL, why are you voting Alkend? I know you think they're scummy but you haven't provided any reasoning that I can other than 'they found my extremely suspicious reveal suspicious'.

Let me ask you - why are you defending him?

How am I defending him? By wanting to know why town should be lynching him, as GL so badly wants to do?

[Kessobahn]

Well that was an interesting end to the day. So GL is PI, Alkend is either paranoid town or scum so desperate to seem town that he actually seems scummy. I'm going to go reread the Alkend case posted earlier to see where it's coming from right now. I'm honestly not sure who to look for right now, but I'll be reading up more and trying to make some sense of this game.

[Okaros]

 Okral Lom, on 18 March 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

 Okaros, on 18 March 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

 Okral Lom, on 18 March 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Makes sense.

GL, why are you voting Alkend? I know you think they're scummy but you haven't provided any reasoning that I can other than 'they found my extremely suspicious reveal suspicious'.

Let me ask you - why are you defending him?

How am I defending him? By wanting to know why town should be lynching him, as GL so badly wants to do?

I need to revisit this somewhere not on my phone for accuracy, but it looks like you have been agreeing with him over the last hour and it kind of seems like you're defending him instead of letting him speaks for himself.

[Kessobahn]

 Alkend, on 18 March 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

GL, you are an idiot. Why would I openly disbelieve and kill Kilava anyways? Smart scumwould have kept them around.

Unless of course they felt fiddler was a finder, in which case your reveal was the dumbest fucking thing ever.

NK analysis is WIFOM. You could have disbelieved and killed Kilava so you could avoid suspicion because it's so suspicious that no scum would do it, or just tried to avoid suspicion in the first place by not disbelieving or disbelieving and not killing Kilava. Either way is possible, so the argument itself doesn't really matter. This is just a pissing match at this point.

[Okaros]

 Ampelas, on 18 March 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

 Okaros, on 18 March 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

 Ampelas, on 18 March 2014 - 10:44 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 18 March 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

While I don't wish to drop my Alkend and Ampelas suspicions (probably more the latter than the former now), I'm thinking the scum, if they were around (and the Kilava kill suggests they were) may well have stayed silent letting the accusations fly after the reveal.

Denul was around just before timeout, but they also did say they would disappear before end of day.

After that, Tiamatha and Korabas were both around about an hour and a half before the end of day, but neither have commented since.

I don't know, if I were scum I would have left Kilava and GL to continue to cause controversy on thread. This suggests to me that the killer wasn't around at the end of the day, although I will agree that if that was the case it was dumb luck that Kilava was chosen.

Ugh, this is why I hate talking about NKs...

This is just WIFOM. It's just as likely the killers WERE around and killed Kila a to sow confusion or confirm the reveal or something.

Sure, but so were Eloth's comments, which was my point. Maybe I need more sleep or something, I haven't been very good at making my point clear in this game.

You are sort of right, but there is a huge difference. Eloth said that the killers might have been around but not posting. You are speculating on WHY Kilava was killed, which is very different and definitely WIFOM.

[Okaros]

 Kessobahn, on 18 March 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

 Alkend, on 18 March 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

GL, you are an idiot. Why would I openly disbelieve and kill Kilava anyways? Smart scumwould have kept them around.

Unless of course they felt fiddler was a finder, in which case your reveal was the dumbest fucking thing ever.

NK analysis is WIFOM. You could have disbelieved and killed Kilava so you could avoid suspicion because it's so suspicious that no scum would do it, or just tried to avoid suspicion in the first place by not disbelieving or disbelieving and not killing Kilava. Either way is possible, so the argument itself doesn't really matter. This is just a pissing match at this point.

Agreed.

[Okral Lom]

 Okaros, on 18 March 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

 Okral Lom, on 18 March 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

 Okaros, on 18 March 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

 Okral Lom, on 18 March 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Makes sense.

GL, why are you voting Alkend? I know you think they're scummy but you haven't provided any reasoning that I can other than 'they found my extremely suspicious reveal suspicious'.

Let me ask you - why are you defending him?

How am I defending him? By wanting to know why town should be lynching him, as GL so badly wants to do?

I need to revisit this somewhere not on my phone for accuracy, but it looks like you have been agreeing with him over the last hour and it kind of seems like you're defending him instead of letting him speaks for himself.

You realise that I kinda want to know why people are being lynched before I decide whether or not to vote on them, right?

And yes, we did both agree that GL's reveal was off, and said so. We were apparently wrong, but last time I checked, having the same opinion as someone else in the thread is allowed. Besides, if you want to go along that route, why don't we talk about how you and GL are both "agreeing" that myself and Alkend need to be looked into? Now I know I'm town, so I can tell you that after a suspicious reveal, that culminated in GL not getting lynched or otherwise dying (in spite of his constant comments about the imminence of his death) and a townie who was otherwise not under suspicion in any way or making a lot of noise being killed instead, thus magically leaving GL who caused said townie's death as theoretically PI'd, don't you think maybe I've got a right to a bit of suspicion?

[Alkend]

 Denul, on 14 March 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

OK, I am all caught up. I have a few quotes to comment on. First;

 Okral Lom, on 13 March 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

 Silchas Ruin, on 12 March 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

Back.

Anyone up for a few card games? I've got me Deck o' Dragons right here in me pocket.

Well it's tenuous at best, but the only thing really game related that stuck out at me is this. Either it's just RP or Silchas is trying to set themselves up as Fiddler.

Can't believe no one brought this up... Why would someone try and out someone setting themselves up as Fiddler? Even if you notice it, you keep it to yourselves and hope scum don't notice. This post set off some alarm bells.

 Denul, on 14 March 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

 Korabas, on 14 March 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

 Kilava, on 14 March 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

 Path-Shaper, on 13 March 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

Silchas has been modkilled for quoting his role pm.

 Path-Shaper, on 13 March 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

Lock is dead. She was Picker, Dolmen Weeks and town.

 Path-Shaper, on 13 March 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

Rikkter is dead. He was Sergeant Whiskeyjack, Macros and Town

3 town down in a day that is not the best of starts in history.

Assuming 4 scum it's now 9-4

Locks play makes sense now we know it was Dolmen, rookie mistake in a book-themed game talking about something not explicitly mentioned already. I don't see anything in the OP about how much CF information we get so I guess we won't know if we lynch town roled or not but I had WJ down as a role if anyone was.

Why in the world would you assume 4 scum? Usually ratio is 3 town to 1 scum. In a 16 player game, 3 scum would be plenty. You working with extra information?

You posted as I was just posting. I thought that was odd as well. I would have gotten to this later in my quote break down, but I was thinking it was odd. I assumed 3 scum for this game. I get WCS and all, but this is TDMI 4 and I would expect the usual ratios to be present. It does sound like he has some extra info.

 Denul, on 14 March 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

 Okaros, on 13 March 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

 Eloth, on 13 March 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

 Okral Lom, on 13 March 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

 Silchas Ruin, on 12 March 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

Back.

Anyone up for a few card games? I've got me Deck o' Dragons right here in me pocket.

Well it's tenuous at best, but the only thing really game related that stuck out at me is this. Either it's just RP or Silchas is trying to set themselves up as Fiddler.

Or as Tattersail (see PS' last story post). Or maybe Tayschrenn. But I agree Okral, the wording sounds a bit odd.

Ok, so day 1 still pretty slow. Day 1 votes are coming out like a normal game; cases built on nothing are usually better than actual nothing, since they at least provoke argument/defense/discussion. But I agree with whoever said the current votes are weak and oddly, looking at Silchas... I think he's probably telling the truth about the RP bit, but that doesn't mean it's the WHOLE truth. It could be RP AND a bit of signalling/truth/info. And of course the best place to hide information like that would be in the context of RP, which is perfect in this game since pretty much everyone is here in the first place because they love Malaz, so it's always familiar territory. So there's that.

The whole whoops-everyone-is-taking-offense-at-this-post bit doesn't bother me much. Who really cares? It certainly wouldn't be lynch-worthy in my eyes, even on day 1. But it's the mild-mannered self-offering-on-the-lynch-platter comment from Silchas that gets me. Anyone who self-votes or offers to be lynched is automatically a lynch target in my mind, because it is a play that makes no sense except from an "emotional appeal" perspective (AND THIS IS MAFIA, NO ONE CARES HOW YOU FEEL BITCH). Play like this always hurts whatever side the player is on. If he's scum, it's bad because it makes you a lynch target and on day 1 that is pretty fucking bad. If he's town, it's still bad, because it's just plain and simple bad town play. Assuming you're just some RI posting around and RPing and whatever, offering to be lynched never helps town. In M&P games, RIs win the game for town - that is their only job, to stay alive and study the thread and connect information to find scum. If you know you're town but you think your lynch won't matter cause you're just RI, you are wrong. If we DO lynch you, it was a waste, and not just because we lost a town player, but because that player (Silchas in this case) knows he's town but redirects the lynch onto himself. He should know it's always better to lynch an unknown than a confirmed RI. Yes, you might hit another townie of course, but this is expected, especially on day 1. What we do gain from the lynch is train information and new info to analyze on day 2. So I HATE HATE HATE the self-lynch offering. If you're doing it for meta reasons, like low posting, either ride out the low poster game or get modkilled and stop playing so we don't waste our most important info-gathering tool on you - the lynch.

All that being said, it's unfortunate that Silchas has already made this play because it just makes me think we have to lynch him. Offering to be lynched is inherently suspicious, because it implies bad play (reasoning above) or weaseling out of the spotlight out of pathos from other players. Pathos has no place in Mafia, so the suspicion always remains unless we all sympathize with the poor man's plight and decide to basically CI him for the rest of the game, since it's not often we revisit lynch targets unless they do something egregious that pings the scumdar.

Anyway, that was too long a post to say that I think Silchas made a mistake that deserves pressure unless a more obvious target presents itself.

Vote Silchas

for now. I should probably be around until timeout though.

After a slow day, and few votes, Okaros votes Silchas here. This was a long winded post that, when i first read it thought "He is trying real hard to contribute here." In and of itself it isn't much, but I did think it was odd.

 Denul, on 14 March 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

 Ampelas, on 13 March 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

Interesting. Silchas' comment was tasteless, but it's nothing worse than we've heard from Maccy or Vengeance when they get on a roll.

However, I also object to the pity self-vote, and I'm prepared to vote Silchas for the lynch.

"I am prepared to vote for..." in other words, "I'll vote for whoever has the most votes"

This pinged my scumdar. If you are voting just to get a lynch, say so. This sounds like he is just waiting around and will vote for whoever without actually saying that.

 Denul, on 14 March 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Also, as I go down my notes here, I wrote down that people seem to be reading a bit to much into the flavor. I really don't think the text by PS is meant to guide us in the game. I won't be reading it as such anyway.

 Denul, on 14 March 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

 Lock, on 13 March 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

Ha yeah true enough. ANYTHING I say may dig my grave but I think I should lay out some perspective.


Rikkter named me nemesis. We are fated to do battle it seems!

2 Votes on me, going off my muddled debate on the scene posts, is fair but Rikkters vote landed me on even pegging with him. I mean its a bit bizarre to echo someone this closely on thread Day 1 right? We post in similar patterns and are garnering suspicion early game. Starting to feel like I'm being tagged here.

The case against Rikkter isn't all that flimsy. Rikkter is eager as am I, any redirect argument works just as easily in his case pinning blame onto me. Also he claimed he'd be out to get me initially and here we are! I spewed gibberish on thread in a muddle to get talking and I have to own up to that. It was Poorly done.

Still do not see how any of the things I listed make sense this early in an M&P game for anyone trying to hint anything. Speculating early game is always risky as it pins a spotlight on you but I thought it'd be the way to get on with things. Thats really the extent of it. I think votes on me are
a bit forced, making a meal of things. Atleast one of the people on my vote train is being opportunistic. Thats my 2 coins worth.

Underlined is mine. I think he may have a point here. I wouldn't be surprised if there were scum on his train at this point. especially as the day is winding down and the scum would really be wanting a lynch. Though, at that point it is only 4 people on the train, Kiliva, Kesso, Rikk (inno) and Tiam. 2 more votes quickly follow this post by Lock, I would throw them in the mix as well.

Ok, here is where Denul comes on and gets busy, gets to work, LOOK AT THEM WORK. WOW.

They comment on everything. The most common personal opinion is that something was "odd". Denul is trying hard to contribute across the board. This does 3 things

1) Shows involvement (but without any real committment to ANYTHING he posts on)
2) Hits on quotes by a bunch of people (which makes the people quoted feel like someone is paying attention to them - friendly help)
3) Pads the post count (despite protests the contrary)

More to come, this is just the start.

My main point for this post is, he comments on everything that has happened, but doesnt add a damn thing.