[HoosierDaddy]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

Messremb, on 25 January 2014 - 02:02 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Also, Mess, this absolutely baffles me

Quote

Role Distribution

Games seem to run with 3-4 vs 1 town vs scum ratio so I'm going to keep broadly in line with that, aiming for ~3.5-1
11 players: 2.6 3vs8 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - No town roles
12 players: 3.0 3vs9 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Guard
13 players: 3.3 3vs10 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Finder
14 players: 3.6 3vs11 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig
15 players: 4.0 3vs12 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, maybe a Guard??
16 players: 4.3 3vs13 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, Guard
18 players: 3.2 4vs13 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 2 symps - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig

You don't add more roles to town when you give them more people.

Hell, why not? I was upping Scum too - note how it went from alternating kills with no lover convo to lover convo then added in a second symp.

Because as you add townies they become more powerful. So at 11 players they should have the most roles between 11 and 13. Then at 14 they should have the most roles between 14 and 16.

You were adding both people (power) to town and roles (power) to town. As you add to the town side of teh people ratio their roles shoudl come down, not go up.

It seems to be a fairly unique set-up that uses the ratio to balance out unique roles. I agree that town seems to be over-powered versus scum, but I can see the attempted logic behind it. That being said, Scum were in trouble here from the get go with this set-up, but not because of numbers. Number balance seems fine.

[Messremb]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 02:36 AM, said:

Messremb, on 25 January 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

Messremb, on 25 January 2014 - 02:02 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Also, Mess, this absolutely baffles me

Quote

Role Distribution

Games seem to run with 3-4 vs 1 town vs scum ratio so I'm going to keep broadly in line with that, aiming for ~3.5-1
11 players: 2.6 3vs8 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - No town roles
12 players: 3.0 3vs9 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Guard
13 players: 3.3 3vs10 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Finder
14 players: 3.6 3vs11 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig
15 players: 4.0 3vs12 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, maybe a Guard??
16 players: 4.3 3vs13 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, Guard
18 players: 3.2 4vs13 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 2 symps - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig

You don't add more roles to town when you give them more people.

Hell, why not? I was upping Scum too - note how it went from alternating kills with no lover convo to lover convo then added in a second symp.

Because as you add townies they become more powerful. So at 11 players they should have the most roles between 11 and 13. Then at 14 they should have the most roles between 14 and 16.

You were adding both people (power) to town and roles (power) to town. As you add to the town side of teh people ratio their roles shoudl come down, not go up.

Not quite sure what you mean with the numbers there. Most roles? So more than scum?

And I was also adding the ability to communicate to scum and the symps to throw under the bus to scum. How would you have dealt with no comms and alternating kill? The town progression was weak, Guard to Finder for instance. Guard is in a limited way a Finder in a simple game. Finder simply upgraded the info available to town (i.e. if they had targeted a killer and the killer withheld.)

I was running a game with 4 players if needed, I made a spec that came fairly close to a 3.5-1 ratio throughout. Edge of range ratios were alleviated by more roles for the side at the biggest potential loss to counter the disproportionate ratio. Compare the ratios in the list to the roles available, if you can find a ratio that can be bought closer to 3.5-1 than I have in the above list then I will eat my hat.

So, you running the next game Obdi?

So you have 2 factors in power.

Roles + Numbers / Roles + Numbers.

So when you increase numbers you need to decrease roles, unless you increase numbers for the other side. So the most town levels on each of your tiers (where the scum roles/numbers don't change) should have the least roles, and the least numbers on each tier should have the most roles.

Tier1:
11 players: 2.6 3vs8 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - No town roles
12 players: 3.0 3vs9 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Guard
13 players: 3.3 3vs10 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Finder

Tier2:
14 players: 3.6 3vs11 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig
15 players: 4.0 3vs12 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, maybe a Guard??
16 players: 4.3 3vs13 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, Guard

Tier3:
18 players: 3.2 4vs13 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 2 symps - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig

See how as you add players to the town side the town gets stronger? Does that make sense? They have longer to D-Day and more chances to fuck it up without losing. Now, as you add more roles to the town side you obviously add power to the town. So do you see how in these different Tiers, you were adding power with both more roles AND more people to the town side, without changing the power of the killer side (inside each tier).

The less players town has in each tier; they should have more roles. As you add players to town you need to reduce their roles OR increase the power of the scum side. Essentially your 14 player scenario is very much easier for scum than your 16 player scenario.

Ahh I get the point now - thank you for the clarification. Now it has been pointed out I'm going to go and bang my head against the wall because it is quite obvious. I have confused the effects of the ratios on roles. Luckily for town, scum lost despite it being easier for them Next time, next time.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Woohoo, nice play town.
very impressive endgame from Gust and Khell. I think I have a better idea about how town's supposed to play.

Great game Mess.

So glad nobody killed me .

[King Lear]

Thanks Mess gg everyone, bad luck scum!

[Tattersail_]

Good game everyone. Gust hubb is scary when he is right.

[Khellendros]

Good game everyone!


And thanks very much for the game Mess, those scenes were particularly horrifically excellent


It was fun as always to be butting heads with Gust. But when we both looked at the other players remaining, and both came up independently with the same result of 'Kadagar or Silchas', I knew we had to be on the right track.


Tatts, you were unusually quiet this game, was that intentional?

[Khellendros]

And yeah, Gust for man of the match - unerring scumdar, somewhat annoyingly

[Tattersail_]

there were only three higher posters than me. I was being tactical with my posting though.

[Gust Hubb]

Khellendros, on 25 January 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Good game everyone!


And thanks very much for the game Mess, those scenes were particularly horrifically excellent


It was fun as always to be butting heads with Gust. But when we both looked at the other players remaining, and both came up independently with the same result of 'Kadagar or Silchas', I knew we had to be on the right track.


Tatts, you were unusually quiet this game, was that intentional?

Seem to always need a love/hate relationship these games Khells. You are one of my favorites

Good game everyone.

[Gust Hubb]

Tattersail_, on 25 January 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Good game everyone. Gust hubb is scary when he is right.

Boo.

[Gust Hubb]

Ran out of rep to give. More to follow pending successful memory recall.

[Tattersail_]

Gust Hubb, on 25 January 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 25 January 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Good game everyone. Gust hubb is scary when he is right.

Boo.

take that as a massive compliment.

[Gust Hubb]

Tattersail_, on 25 January 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 25 January 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 25 January 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Good game everyone. Gust hubb is scary when he is right.

Boo.

take that as a massive compliment.

I did what does a ghost say?

[Brujah]

I had to bow out at the end there because I had to go back to hospital to get those staples taken out of my head. I didn't think it would occupy so much of my time. I actually made it back in time to prevent a modkill, but I felt like my actions and play seemed too suspicious, and if I came in I would only have garnered unneeded town attention, and wasted their time. It was a toss up between letting town lose a other player and letting the field of suspects get smaller.

I wagered on towns awesome play. I was hoping you guys would figure it out.

I want to say that that was a very well played game. Everyone brought their A game, even with the low posting. We should play like that more often. That was probably the best overall game played in a while. You guys played amazingly well. I upgraded you guys from being a bunch of pieces of shit, to a group of almost ok fucktards. Jk, you guys are great.

GOOD JOB TEAM TOWN.

[Blend]

Gust Hubb, on 25 January 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 25 January 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 25 January 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 25 January 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Good game everyone. Gust hubb is scary when he is right.

Boo.

take that as a massive compliment.

I did what does a ghost say?

RING DING DING A DING DING DING!!! Oh wait...

[Shinrei]

I take all the credit for this win. If you hadn't lynched me...

Oh never mind.