[Messremb]

I just edited the latest update - note I'm not changing the votes needed even though we had a modkill so the MM output will need updating to show 5 votes for Night each time.


Edit: Damn, Khell just changed kill orders

Edit edit: Warned Lady B again, 6 hours to go on modkill

This post has been edited by Messremb: 25 January 2014 - 12:58 AM

[Path-Shaper]

Just said on thread I'll process Night actions - I don't really think it fair to keep them in suspense over the entire weekend, I consider the weekend freeze a good time to get thoughts straight and would rather anyone who feels like it contribute rather than stay away on the chance they're dead.

[Obdigore]

Wait did Khell change his vig order?

[Messremb]

So, who wants to run the next game?

Also, any comments or advice on future games more than welcome, here or PM.

I did consider the fact that Ampelas was a *kill*-finder to be enough to counter the finder and Vig in a small game given he'd get a positive result from the Vig, there was a reasonable chance of friendly fire killing them both; test the lynch then lynch the liar after all. I was considering another town role but we ran without it in the end, 3.6-1 was the final ratio and worked pretty well I feel

[Messremb]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Wait did Khell change his vig order?

You bet

[Path-Shaper]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Wait did Khell change his vig order?

Yup. Vig Kadagar, if lynched vig Silchas. You dead, my friend.

[Obdigore]

What was it before?

[Skintick]

Starling, on 22 January 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Messremb, on 22 January 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 22 January 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

Messremb, on 22 January 2014 - 03:22 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 22 January 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

That was a smart choice from Blend. It will be interesting to see how he handles it. If he comes out guns blazing, 100% certain that Azath is scum, Obdi has the experience to figure out there is a finder mechanic and kill him off.

Looks like Blend may have done that, albeit in only a limited way. They'll have doubts about going back to him tomorrow though I'm guessing. Do you think we should point out it is a non-standard role he has?

Nah, someone will push the fact that the lynch was swung, and vote Eldat again, it won't take much to convince a few people to vote him.

I actually find myself hoping that they do not lynch Eldat today - numerically losing him will take it to 9-1, even for Obdigore that would be a struggle?

If Obdi hasn't posted again when I'm awake tomorrow I'll give him a 12-hour activity warning along with Shin. I see now more than ever why people lynch low posters. I figure 1 12-hour warning per alt, after that they get a 6 hour next time, then either a 2 hour courtesy warning or leave them to drop.

I think Azath has taken the right route here, and if he can convince enough people that his train was usual day one weaksauce he'll have a good chance. It's unfortunate for him that Blend's find was on him, but Blend can't reveal until the second scrum is found, with the added possibility that if he does a find on Khell he'll reveal and get lynched for revealing on the wrong person.

If he does get lynched then Obdi should be able to hold it together. There isn't anything to connect him to Azath. Unless he's very unlucky and is found by Blend or killed by Khell, he should be able to make it to end game. And here he has safety in numbers, unless he does something to draw attention to himself.

Ah, and that was Obdi's problem. There is danger in the extremes. Too good a townie. Suspicious. Too detached from all possible connections. You stand out. Middle road is the way to go, unless people are softies for a good townie, and then you be a good townie, yo. I love that the killers thought I was their symp

Path-Shaper, on 23 January 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 23 January 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Sweet. Vote count is up to date, and timeout is due in 4 hours.

Thanks

I've modkilled Gnaw for inactivity, KL is getting close with still no post.



From the killers:

Eldat Pressen, on 22 January 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

Yeah, either skintick or Amlelas need to die tonight

Silchas Ruin, on 23 January 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

Kill Skintick unless Eldat chooses someone else. If Eldat does choose someone else, but is lynched, Kill Skintick

Vegeance! Or possibly Pre-Vengeance!

Eldat Pressen, on 23 January 2014 - 04:10 AM, said:

I'm cool with that. My hope is that I can either deflect away from my lynch for long enough that I survive at least till day 3 and try to drag a townie down with me. Either that or pray that town doesn't show up in time to lynch me. But if I can weasel out again I will be pretty damn happy.

Eldat Pressen, on 23 January 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

I'm fake revealing finder, will throw hentos under the bus to buy you todays NK, and tomorrows.

Now a fake reveal will be interesting - Blend is in around now normally I think. Will he counter-reveal?

Just seen the reveal and it is weak Especially after my fake reveal last game people should think twice big style (I think mine was a work of art )

Was I alted as Vengeance?

Nice work on your first Mess. Thoroughly fun as M&P's often are in my humble opinion. I never understand faction games and always get my cream whipped... er something like that.

[Path-Shaper]

Path-Shaper, on 25 January 2014 - 01:50 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Wait did Khell change his vig order?

Yup. Vig Kadagar, if lynched vig Silchas. You dead, my friend.

Had you held off the lynch you may have lived too if no-one else hammered. Killed by your own vote!

Edit: -Messremb

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 25 January 2014 - 01:54 AM

[Skintick]

Path-Shaper, on 25 January 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 25 January 2014 - 01:50 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Wait did Khell change his vig order?

Yup. Vig Kadagar, if lynched vig Silchas. You dead, my friend.

Had you held off the lynch you may have lived too if no-one else hammered. Killed by your own vote!

Well, I was hoping Khells would trust me on my final two picks. I figured one of the two of them was the killer, but I didn't have enough on Silchas to get a lock.

The fact that Kiliva was Khells explains a lot.... a lot.

[Starling]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

What was it before?

Vig Silchas, if lynched vig Kadagar. Either way, you dead

[Starling]

In fact, I think that is the first time I've seen a vig used successfully. Good game, town!

[Obdigore]

Path-Shaper, on 25 January 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 25 January 2014 - 01:50 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Wait did Khell change his vig order?

Yup. Vig Kadagar, if lynched vig Silchas. You dead, my friend.

Had you held off the lynch you may have lived too if no-one else hammered. Killed by your own vote!

Edit: -Messremb

I hadn't postedin day 3, so if I didn't post before the end of the day you would have modkilled me (or should have) .

and posting without voting would have been pretty scummy

[Obdigore]

Also, Mess, this absolutely baffles me

Quote

Role Distribution

Games seem to run with 3-4 vs 1 town vs scum ratio so I'm going to keep broadly in line with that, aiming for ~3.5-1
11 players: 2.6 3vs8 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - No town roles
12 players: 3.0 3vs9 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Guard
13 players: 3.3 3vs10 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Finder
14 players: 3.6 3vs11 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig
15 players: 4.0 3vs12 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, maybe a Guard??
16 players: 4.3 3vs13 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, Guard
18 players: 3.2 4vs13 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 2 symps - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig

You don't add more roles to town when you give them more people.

[Messremb]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Also, Mess, this absolutely baffles me

Quote

Role Distribution

Games seem to run with 3-4 vs 1 town vs scum ratio so I'm going to keep broadly in line with that, aiming for ~3.5-1
11 players: 2.6 3vs8 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - No town roles
12 players: 3.0 3vs9 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Guard
13 players: 3.3 3vs10 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Finder
14 players: 3.6 3vs11 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig
15 players: 4.0 3vs12 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, maybe a Guard??
16 players: 4.3 3vs13 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, Guard
18 players: 3.2 4vs13 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 2 symps - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig

You don't add more roles to town when you give them more people.

Hell, why not? I was upping Scum too - note how it went from alternating kills with no lover convo to lover convo then added in a second symp.

[Obdigore]

Messremb, on 25 January 2014 - 02:02 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Also, Mess, this absolutely baffles me

Quote

Role Distribution

Games seem to run with 3-4 vs 1 town vs scum ratio so I'm going to keep broadly in line with that, aiming for ~3.5-1
11 players: 2.6 3vs8 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - No town roles
12 players: 3.0 3vs9 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Guard
13 players: 3.3 3vs10 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Finder
14 players: 3.6 3vs11 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig
15 players: 4.0 3vs12 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, maybe a Guard??
16 players: 4.3 3vs13 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, Guard
18 players: 3.2 4vs13 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 2 symps - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig

You don't add more roles to town when you give them more people.

Hell, why not? I was upping Scum too - note how it went from alternating kills with no lover convo to lover convo then added in a second symp.

Because as you add townies they become more powerful. So at 11 players they should have the most roles between 11 and 13. Then at 14 they should have the most roles between 14 and 16.

You were adding both people (power) to town and roles (power) to town. As you add to the town side of teh people ratio their roles shoudl come down, not go up.

[Aparal Forge]

I will read this more later, but all I have to say now is wahoo, I survived day one! I only do that on high TMDI games.

And good job on your first game Mess.

[Messremb]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

Messremb, on 25 January 2014 - 02:02 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Also, Mess, this absolutely baffles me

Quote

Role Distribution

Games seem to run with 3-4 vs 1 town vs scum ratio so I'm going to keep broadly in line with that, aiming for ~3.5-1
11 players: 2.6 3vs8 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - No town roles
12 players: 3.0 3vs9 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Guard
13 players: 3.3 3vs10 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Finder
14 players: 3.6 3vs11 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig
15 players: 4.0 3vs12 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, maybe a Guard??
16 players: 4.3 3vs13 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, Guard
18 players: 3.2 4vs13 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 2 symps - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig

You don't add more roles to town when you give them more people.

Hell, why not? I was upping Scum too - note how it went from alternating kills with no lover convo to lover convo then added in a second symp.

Because as you add townies they become more powerful. So at 11 players they should have the most roles between 11 and 13. Then at 14 they should have the most roles between 14 and 16.

You were adding both people (power) to town and roles (power) to town. As you add to the town side of teh people ratio their roles shoudl come down, not go up.

Not quite sure what you mean with the numbers there. Most roles? So more than scum?

And I was also adding the ability to communicate to scum and the symps to throw under the bus to scum. How would you have dealt with no comms and alternating kill? The town progression was weak, Guard to Finder for instance. Guard is in a limited way a Finder in a simple game. Finder simply upgraded the info available to town (i.e. if they had targeted a killer and the killer withheld.)

I was running a game with 4 players if needed, I made a spec that came fairly close to a 3.5-1 ratio throughout. Edge of range ratios were alleviated by more roles for the side at the biggest potential loss to counter the disproportionate ratio. Compare the ratios in the list to the roles available, if you can find a ratio that can be bought closer to 3.5-1 than I have in the above list then I will eat my hat.

So, you running the next game Obdi?

[Messremb]

Aparal Forge, on 25 January 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

I will read this more later, but all I have to say now is wahoo, I survived day one! I only do that on high TMDI games.

And good job on your first game Mess.

Thanks

[Obdigore]

Messremb, on 25 January 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

Messremb, on 25 January 2014 - 02:02 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 25 January 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Also, Mess, this absolutely baffles me

Quote

Role Distribution

Games seem to run with 3-4 vs 1 town vs scum ratio so I'm going to keep broadly in line with that, aiming for ~3.5-1
11 players: 2.6 3vs8 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - No town roles
12 players: 3.0 3vs9 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Guard
13 players: 3.3 3vs10 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Finder
14 players: 3.6 3vs11 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig
15 players: 4.0 3vs12 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, maybe a Guard??
16 players: 4.3 3vs13 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, Guard
18 players: 3.2 4vs13 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 2 symps - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig

You don't add more roles to town when you give them more people.

Hell, why not? I was upping Scum too - note how it went from alternating kills with no lover convo to lover convo then added in a second symp.

Because as you add townies they become more powerful. So at 11 players they should have the most roles between 11 and 13. Then at 14 they should have the most roles between 14 and 16.

You were adding both people (power) to town and roles (power) to town. As you add to the town side of teh people ratio their roles shoudl come down, not go up.

Not quite sure what you mean with the numbers there. Most roles? So more than scum?

And I was also adding the ability to communicate to scum and the symps to throw under the bus to scum. How would you have dealt with no comms and alternating kill? The town progression was weak, Guard to Finder for instance. Guard is in a limited way a Finder in a simple game. Finder simply upgraded the info available to town (i.e. if they had targeted a killer and the killer withheld.)

I was running a game with 4 players if needed, I made a spec that came fairly close to a 3.5-1 ratio throughout. Edge of range ratios were alleviated by more roles for the side at the biggest potential loss to counter the disproportionate ratio. Compare the ratios in the list to the roles available, if you can find a ratio that can be bought closer to 3.5-1 than I have in the above list then I will eat my hat.

So, you running the next game Obdi?

So you have 2 factors in power.

Roles + Numbers / Roles + Numbers.

So when you increase numbers you need to decrease roles, unless you increase numbers for the other side. So the most town levels on each of your tiers (where the scum roles/numbers don't change) should have the least roles, and the least numbers on each tier should have the most roles.

Tier1:
11 players: 2.6 3vs8 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - No town roles
12 players: 3.0 3vs9 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Guard
13 players: 3.3 3vs10 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 1 symp - Finder

Tier2:
14 players: 3.6 3vs11 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig
15 players: 4.0 3vs12 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, maybe a Guard??
16 players: 4.3 3vs13 - 2 lover killers with shared kill, 1 symp - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig, Guard

Tier3:
18 players: 3.2 4vs13 - 2 killers with alternating kill, 2 symps - Kill-Finder, Hesitant Vig

See how as you add players to the town side the town gets stronger? Does that make sense? They have longer to D-Day and more chances to fuck it up without losing. Now, as you add more roles to the town side you obviously add power to the town. So do you see how in these different Tiers, you were adding power with both more roles AND more people to the town side, without changing the power of the killer side (inside each tier).

The less players town has in each tier; they should have more roles. As you add players to town you need to reduce their roles OR increase the power of the scum side. Essentially your 14 player scenario is very much easier for scum than your 16 player scenario.