[Aptorian]

This is from a self-post on reddit so take it with a grain of salt but if its true, this is some shady shit.

http://www.reddit.co...y_goodkind_300/

Quote

506 days ago, 300 fans paid Terry Goodkind $300 each for a limited print collector’s edition of his otherwise e-book exclusive The First Confessor. We’re still waiting.

Posting from a throwaway because I haven't been a fan of Goodkind's online retailiation[1] in the past. Despite my growing disillusion with Goodkind, I'd still like to see my purchase and have no doubt when it does arrive, it will be spectacular.

Sorry about the length. Feel free to skip to the tl;dr. I'm hardly an expert at spinning a narrative, so instead I'll bulletpoint a timeline.

Early summer, 2012: Goodkind announces a self-published e-book, The First Confessor. In addition to the ebook, 300 leather bound collector's editions would be printed and packaged with a bunch of other goodies[2] , priced at $300 each. No other printed copies would be made available.

June 20, 2012: The online preorder went live and sold out in minutes.

July 2, 2012: The ebook is released and, with only a few minor hiccups, the CE people receive their ebook from their selected ebook provider.

July, 2012: Everything seems to be rolling along just fine. We receive 3 emails this month detailing the status of the package build. No news on the book itself, but the extras are coming along just fine.

August – November, 2012: About one update a month (none in October). Various extras have arrived and the first batch of "stunning" books arrive. No final ETA, but getting "close."

Mid-January, 2013: two emails: The first is a "Big Update!" Everything has arrived and has been quality checked. Packages will be assembled and shipped out soon. A promise for more in-depth details closer to the ship date. The second is a final call for address changes (shipping addresses tend to be inaccurate seven months later.) Finally, a Facebook post from the team in the pre-order event page[3] At no point was it said that a Facebook page for a 7 month old event would be the medium of official communication, and judging from the number of people who comment on the page, I'd wager less than half actively check for updates here. The first of the three hundred has fallen; someone has requested a refund. To-date, I know of at least two confirmed refunds and many more threats.

March, 2013: An email asking which of a list of free addins we'd prefer. That's nice, but no update on the package, which was allegedly close to shipping a month and a half ago.

June, 2013: Another Facebook post[4] , this time from Rob Anderson, Goodkind's Creative Director (I believe that's his official title; he apparently wears many hats,) explaining Goodkind and he were repeatedly disappointed by the quality of what they received from the printers. They went through at least two printers and destroyed at least one complete set of books that weren't good enough. Allegedly, they finally found a printer good enough for them and received passable prototypes. Now they're waiting for a few more materials and they're ready to ship (sounds familiar.)

August 27, 2013: At this point it's been nearly five months since the last official email. We receive a final ship date: September 27th. "We believe this date is firm. We do not anticipate this date to change for any reason. If we detect any possibility of this changing, we will immediately let everyone know so as to avoid repeating past disappointments."

October 8, 2013: No packages, no emails. Past disappointments are repeated. There are rumblings of reasons why, but nothing official. Mostly people posting Facebook comments from Rob from other Goodkind Facebook pages. Rob posts a photo of the "missing ingredients" that have ust arrived on a pallet. No explanations or official emails.

And that brings us to now. Five hundred and six days later. Goodkind and his team have broken promise after promise and completely disappointed a group of fans who handed him $90,000. If you're still reading, you're probably asking why we haven't just requested refunds. The team in January said they've honor them (other methods, such as chargebacks and Paypal disputes, have long passed their timeframe.) Still, most of us fully believe the quality of the package will be worth waiting. We appreciate that Goodkind was picky enough to destroy subpar materials rather than send them out, and we realize he's likely spent far more than the $90k we gave him. All we'd like is to be regularly updated by email on the status. Yet they seem completely incompetent in that regard.

So, why am I posting here? Partly, to vent. I'm sure most of the people in the pre-order FB group are sick of hearing the same people lament the same concerns that we all have over and over. But partly because Goodkind has posted here before, both as part of the community and in his own defense. I'm hoping that perhaps he'll see it and realize how much his team's horrid communication and broken promises are hurting his reputation amongst some of his biggest fans. So, /u/RealTerryGoodkind [5] , what say you?

Lastly, I'd prefer this not devolve into a Goodkind bashfest. I realize a lot of people in this subreddit dislike his writings. However, if this is what we can expect from Goodkind when he's self-publishing, I think it's something the community should be aware of. Despite enjoying his books, I won't be purchasing another until I receive this package, and will never again be purchasing anything directly from him and not from a reliable marketplace like Amazon.

tl;dr: 300 Goodkind fans paid $300 each on July, 2012 for a collector's edition of his (then) most-recent book. After many broken promises, missed deadlines, and worse customer service than Comcast, we're still no closer to having something in our hands. Stockholm syndrome prevents us from requesting refunds.

[Trull's son]

The post mentions how getting these books printed might cost more than the $90,000. Does anyone know if that is accurate in any way? I mean, Micheal Sullivan self pubbed a book with kickstarted and as far as I know he needed only a few thousand to get the book out the door (though he managed to get something like 33,000, and published far more than 300). I understand leather bound copies are expensive, but $90,000 for 300 books seems ridiculous.

This post has been edited by Trull's son: 09 November 2013 - 01:38 AM

[worry]

The leather is made out of poor people.

[QuickTidal]

Trull, on 09 November 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

The post mentions how getting these books printed might cost more than the $90,000. Does anyone know if that is accurate in any way? I mean, Micheal Sullivan self pubbed a book with kickstarted and as far as I know he needed only a few thousand to get the book out the door (though he managed to get something like 33,000, and published far more than 300). I understand leather bound copies are expensive, but $90,000 for 300 books seems ridiculous.

I work in the printing industry.

For probably $20,000 he could print, fold, and glue more than a million on high quality stock, trade pb. Add shipping and it's nowhere NEAR $90,000. Even if they were hardback it wouldn't cost him HALF 90 grand.

They would have to be gold-leaf, ragged/deckle edged, hardbacks with foldout maps and pop up monsters, covers embossed, foiled, and UV coating varnished to cost that much.

[Trull's son]

I guess that settles it. Either incompetence or greed. Considering it's Goodkind we're talking about, both fit.

worry, on 09 November 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

The leather is made out of poor people.

Doesn't really explain the cost though, what with the surplus poor people crop harvested the last few years.

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

I have some limited hardbacked books from PS publishing and Subterranean Press and they say on the inside cover prices, the price inside the sub press is $150 but costs almost double to buy. This $150 I would think is the price book stores pay so they can make a profit which I am fine with I want book stores to make money so they can stay open! the 150 must also have profit for the printers and so on. so yeah $300 must more than cover all aspects of the book and extras and delivery and still have change. hope you get your book mate. Keep hopes up high!

[BJDibbins]

This is the problem with long posts - things are skim read, and some assumptions are made by some readers.


The TL;DR version is:

The First Confessor Collector's Edition package contains more than a book, there's also a ring, necklace, pen, art, dvd, etc., Details here: http://www.terrygood...lectors-edition. Other items have been added since, including the TFC audiobook.

Early on the ring was found to not feel solid enough - Terry Goodkind paid to have more silver added.

Early printing of the book weren't considered good enough and were destroyed - Terry Goodkind paid for better printings.

As one of the lucky CE purchasers, my only gripe has been with the communication (or lack thereof at times), but I expect the product I receive will far exceed my expectations.

[Morgoth]

Joined for this, huh? Well, good that there's no illegality involved. Goodkind hardly needs the Money.

[Cause]

BJDibbins, on 12 November 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

This is the problem with long posts - things are skim read, and some assumptions are made by some readers.


The TL;DR version is:

The First Confessor Collector's Edition package contains more than a book, there's also a ring, necklace, pen, art, dvd, etc., Details here: http://www.terrygood...lectors-edition. Other items have been added since, including the TFC audiobook.

Early on the ring was found to not feel solid enough - Terry Goodkind paid to have more silver added.

Early printing of the book weren't considered good enough and were destroyed - Terry Goodkind paid for better printings.

As one of the lucky CE purchasers, my only gripe has been with the communication (or lack thereof at times), but I expect the product I receive will far exceed my expectations.

It nevertheless speaks of incompetence. You don't purchase 300 rings and then decide they are faulty and order another 300. You have 30 different prototypes made and then pick the best and duplicate it 300 times! Saves time and money. More than a year from purchase to delivery is shocking no matter the product. The poor communication is itself a tool to hide the incompetence and delivering the product. Anything extra added to the product beyond what was originally promised is done by way of apology and not the goodness of their heart.

That said how I wish I had a reason to write people letters that I sealed with my signet ring

What is the significance of a tactical writing pen to the sword of truth?

[amphibian]

When faced with the specter of evil chickens in our workplaces, our only weapon that'll be close to hand is the trusty tactical pen.

[BJDibbins]

Cause, on 12 November 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

It nevertheless speaks of incompetence. You don't purchase 300 rings and then decide they are faulty and order another 300. You have 30 different prototypes made and then pick the best and duplicate it 300 times! Saves time and money. More than a year from purchase to delivery is shocking no matter the product. The poor communication is itself a tool to hide the incompetence and delivering the product. Anything extra added to the product beyond what was originally promised is done by way of apology and not the goodness of their heart.

That said how I wish I had a reason to write people letters that I sealed with my signet ring

What is the significance of a tactical writing pen to the sword of truth?

I'm not even going to try defending everything that has occurred since the sale at the end of June last year - partly because there are some things I think should have been done differently, and partly because when all is said and done, I only know what I've been told by those involved with the process.

What I 'know' (see above caveat) is that the project was conceived by Terry Goodkind and his creative director, and then a "CE Team" was contracted to bring the concept to reality. There was a difference between the prototypes and the produced products. Terry Goodkind wasn't happy with the quality of what was produced and did not want to send out substandard stuff. The Grace rings were all custom made, not bought off a catalogue. They were sent back to be remade with more silver, rather than another 300 bought. That was done early on though. The excessive delays were caused by trying to find printers that actually produced the desired quality instead of just saying they can. The original CE Team were replaced somewhere during the process and a new team bought in.

Incompetence? Sure, that applies. Whether you call it poor hiring decision with the CE team, poor judgement by the CE team in selecting suppliers, suppliers producing substandard products that didn't meet promises made, or whatever... the end result is that the CE purchasers are going to be getting a high quality package when it does arrive, rather than a good enough package.

There's been a lot of discussion about this on the Collector Edition Pre-Orders Open FaceBook page. Nearly all of the negative comments have been relating to the lack of communication about the problems and issues - not keeping us informed by email (etc), but what you will have trouble finding are any posts from people complaining about anything else. Pretty much everyone complaining has said they are prepared to wait as long as long as it takes, as long as they're told why they need to.

My own opinion on this (and why I've signed up to comment) is that I dislike seeing inaccurate speculation. There's enough honest criticism that can be made, and equally enough credit for wanting to deliver the highest quality product without seeing the results of 'chinese whispers' circulating around the internet.

[Cause]

amphibian, on 12 November 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

When faced with the specter of evil chickens in our workplaces, our only weapon that'll be close to hand is the trusty tactical pen.

Evil Chickens are easily defeated! Chickens that are not chickens! Those bastards require something tactical!

[Vengeance]

BJDibbins, on 12 November 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Cause, on 12 November 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

It nevertheless speaks of incompetence. You don't purchase 300 rings and then decide they are faulty and order another 300. You have 30 different prototypes made and then pick the best and duplicate it 300 times! Saves time and money. More than a year from purchase to delivery is shocking no matter the product. The poor communication is itself a tool to hide the incompetence and delivering the product. Anything extra added to the product beyond what was originally promised is done by way of apology and not the goodness of their heart.

That said how I wish I had a reason to write people letters that I sealed with my signet ring

What is the significance of a tactical writing pen to the sword of truth?

I'm not even going to try defending everything that has occurred since the sale at the end of June last year - partly because there are some things I think should have been done differently, and partly because when all is said and done, I only know what I've been told by those involved with the process.

What I 'know' (see above caveat) is that the project was conceived by Terry Goodkind and his creative director, and then a "CE Team" was contracted to bring the concept to reality. There was a difference between the prototypes and the produced products. Terry Goodkind wasn't happy with the quality of what was produced and did not want to send out substandard stuff. The Grace rings were all custom made, not bought off a catalogue. They were sent back to be remade with more silver, rather than another 300 bought. That was done early on though. The excessive delays were caused by trying to find printers that actually produced the desired quality instead of just saying they can. The original CE Team were replaced somewhere during the process and a new team bought in.

Incompetence? Sure, that applies. Whether you call it poor hiring decision with the CE team, poor judgement by the CE team in selecting suppliers, suppliers producing substandard products that didn't meet promises made, or whatever... the end result is that the CE purchasers are going to be getting a high quality package when it does arrive, rather than a good enough package.

There's been a lot of discussion about this on the Collector Edition Pre-Orders Open FaceBook page. Nearly all of the negative comments have been relating to the lack of communication about the problems and issues - not keeping us informed by email (etc), but what you will have trouble finding are any posts from people complaining about anything else. Pretty much everyone complaining has said they are prepared to wait as long as long as it takes, as long as they're told why they need to.

My own opinion on this (and why I've signed up to comment) is that I dislike seeing inaccurate speculation. There's enough honest criticism that can be made, and equally enough credit for wanting to deliver the highest quality product without seeing the results of 'chinese whispers' circulating around the internet.

I am still trying to figure out why he had to self publish to begin with. Didn't he sell a bazillion books and have that crappy TV show to boot. As for a CE edition it seems like bringing on a team means people who can't use email and whom have never managed a project. Sure it sounds great when someone says I am rejecting these because something is a bad product and he didn't want to send that to people. But couldn't they have figured out that the copy was shit when they were presented with the prototype. Credit for wanting to deliver the highest quality product is horse honkey. You want a brilliant product that is custom and a collectors item contact Subterranean Press. If you want to have a bunch of pictures of crates of shit that need to be put together you get this cluster fuck. Also it is a CE for a Goodkind book honestly what the fuck did you expect. That the product would be better then his writing. Please.

[BJDibbins]

Vengeance, on 12 November 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

I am still trying to figure out why he had to self publish to begin with. Didn't he sell a bazillion books and have that crappy TV show to boot. As for a CE edition it seems like bringing on a team means people who can't use email and whom have never managed a project. Sure it sounds great when someone says I am rejecting these because something is a bad product and he didn't want to send that to people. But couldn't they have figured out that the copy was shit when they were presented with the prototype. Credit for wanting to deliver the highest quality product is horse honkey. You want a brilliant product that is custom and a collectors item contact Subterranean Press. If you want to have a bunch of pictures of crates of shit that need to be put together you get this cluster fuck. Also it is a CE for a Goodkind book honestly what the fuck did you expect. That the product would be better then his writing. Please.

In order..

Self-publishing the TFC as an eBook doesn't have anything to do with the CE package.

None of the true fans of the books liked the tv show, nor did Terry Goodkind like the way the show ended up. What he recognises is that the show brought a lot of people to the books (including me).

As I said earlier, the prototypes delivered were better than the produced items.

Everything else just looks like Goodkind-hate to me, and that's also a different topic. I don't have any problem with that - everyone is entitled to their opinion.

As I said above, I just like to see balanced comments. Because people don't like something someone does, doesn't mean everything they do is wrong.

This post has been edited by BJDibbins: 12 November 2013 - 09:09 PM

[QuickTidal]

BJDibbins, on 12 November 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

My own opinion on this (and why I've signed up to comment) is that I dislike seeing inaccurate speculation. There's enough honest criticism that can be made, and equally enough credit for wanting to deliver the highest quality product without seeing the results of 'chinese whispers' circulating around the internet.

Huh? The main thing folk here have said is off-kilter is the lack of communication. The year wait is also atrocious, I don't care who you are.

But you know what bits I find most interesting?

Goodkind fobbed the responsibility for this project off onto a "team" instead of handling it himself.

If MY name was on a deal like this, I'd make damn sure I was at every stage of it REGARDLESS of who was handling what aspects of it.

...and as a dude who works for a printer...the quality issue is not something that delays things a year. Most large format DECENT printers worth their salt can show you UP front what they are going to be producing. Even if things are caught at the press stage and the press run is cancelled, it's not a matter of having to do anything but modify production (paper, cutting, fodling ect.)...WORST case scenario is moving the job to another printer...but again, as long as the work's been done on the files (lets say, high res PDFs), moving it through the prepress workflow is a snap. Pay for sped-up press time slot and your golden. Such things do NOT a year delay make.

The other bit is that you seem to be dismissing the non-communication as a non-feature as long as people are willing to wait....fuck that...shows that you don't quite understand how the funding Fan-to-Artist thing is meant to work. It's ALL about constant communication.

This is mostly bullshit excuses made by an author who chose not to involve himself enough on a funding thing with his name on it. End of.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 12 November 2013 - 09:18 PM

[BJDibbins]

The off-kilter posts were those that implied the $300 was for just a book.

As for the rest, I've said my piece and I've been one of the more outspoken purchasers on the Facebook pages.

Even the original reddit poster was only seeking communication, but that seems to have been lost in some of the posts here.

Does criticising Terry Goodkind somehow make Steven Erickson a better author? I just ask as it seems people are more interested in bashing him than giving any credence to comments from an actual purchaser. If I (and others) can accept it, then why can't you?

[Abyss]

BJDibbins, on 12 November 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

...
Does criticising Terry Goodkind somehow make Steven Erickson a better author?

No, but it makes Goodkind a funnier author.

[BJDibbins]

Well as long as everyone is being sensible about their comments, what more can I ask?

And here was me wondering about some of Terry Goodkind's fans...

[worry]

Well I think a boarder here called Assail said he liked some Goodkind, but he hasn't posted lately unfortunately. Other than that you probably gotta talk to Apt and Illuyankas, who are the board's official Goodkind ambassadors.

[Grief]

The tangential sneering hardly seems tasteful.

Just because the board isn't fond of Goodkind doesn't mean the usual rules about don't apply.

-Grief.