[Galactic Council]

I think we're ready to start round 4.

Except I'd like to see a confirmation from CF on rotation. He made his choice before the valid tech draw and I'm not sure that he realized the other was invalid.

[D'rek]

Gnaw, on 11 November 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

D, on 11 November 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

Ok, so I was under the impression we weren't doing off-thread communication. But it seems we are? Just want to be sure before I start a Nova chat.

If you're starting a nova chat, I don't see that that constitutes off-thread comms. It's out of the game now.

How would that *not* constitute off-thread comms? It'd be a PM chat that only some players can see. I thought we weren't allowing that this game, everything had to be "at the table" (ie in this thread), until you forwarded the Tatts/Gnaw chat.I just want to be sure before opening our own.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 11 November 2013 - 03:00 AM

[cerveza_fiesta]

I thought I had confirmed in my last post. I'm going to pick counterclockwise.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 11 November 2013 - 04:45 AM

[Gnaw]

turn 1 provisional IH has the OK to stop this if he wants to

research neutron bombs -2 sci
-5 upkeep. 0, Sci 7, Ma 13

[Morgoth]

I'm still not positive to it, but whatever the majority decides. Eclipse is a Board game designed to be played around a table. Everything is in the open, and I think that's the best way to approach it here too.

[Tattersail_]

have you done the nova rolls?

[Tapper]

D, on 11 November 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

Gnaw, on 11 November 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

D, on 11 November 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

Ok, so I was under the impression we weren't doing off-thread communication. But it seems we are? Just want to be sure before I start a Nova chat.

If you're starting a nova chat, I don't see that that constitutes off-thread comms. It's out of the game now.

How would that *not* constitute off-thread comms? It'd be a PM chat that only some players can see. I thought we weren't allowing that this game, everything had to be "at the table" (ie in this thread), until you forwarded the Tatts/Gnaw chat.I just want to be sure before opening our own.

I think Gnaw thinks off-thread comms about the discovery "nova burst" and you mean "nova alliance".

Not sure what to think of off-thread comms. I don't like them for a board game that incorporates no official negotiation phase and in which actions follow up so quickly as in Eclipse. There's simply no 'chat for 15 minutes in the kitchen' option in it. I think this is reflected by a few players (Morghy, myself) saying we don't see a place for it, as well as your assumption that it wasn't to be in the game. Hence why Nova alliance did all its strategic discussion on thread last turn. Us publicly planning to take the GC led to Gnaw setting up an action chain to get to the GC. Question there is: if this was off-thread planning, at which point was it obvious what we were doing, and would that have been enough time for Gnaw to respond as he did?

And did the Tatts/Gnaw chat had strategic impact? Could we have avoided this debacle if there was no off-thread comms? It *might* have had an influence on what was said or not said on thread, and consequently what was done or not done on thread, but it is also impossible to prove in hindsight.

At the same time, we don't have a rule about it for this game, just inclinations of a minority of players, and I think we need one now.
In a game that takes less long (for example, ones that just involve shuffling a deck of cards), I'd suggest a complete re-start (either of the round, or of the game).
Now, I'd say we vote on the issue of off-thread comms (or not) for the entire duration of the game and move on.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 11 November 2013 - 08:51 AM

[Tattersail_]

I don't mind PM's but I can see why people would want it to be overt and "on the table". There's nothing said in the PM that changed any of my decisions and what was said in the PM was said on thread. I also asked Gnaw on thread if he had any sneaky plans. I talked to him about his missiles and wanted him to get a ship in the middle. I suppose a ruling would be better. Something concrete to say yes or no.

[Tattersail_]

Round 4


#1

Research Improved Hull


Upkeep -5


Bank $4, S8, M14


Production $15, S6, M4

[Tapper]

Ganoes Paran, on 11 November 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

I don't mind PM's but I can see why people would want it to be overt and "on the table". There's nothing said in the PM that changed any of my decisions and what was said in the PM was said on thread. I also asked Gnaw on thread if he had any sneaky plans. I talked to him about his missiles and wanted him to get a ship in the middle. I suppose a ruling would be better. Something concrete to say yes or no.

Quote

You pass this turn. Then do a reaction move to put your cruiser in Iota bootis. After combat phase you can influence and colonize

Gnaw, on 08 November 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

quit talking about my plans on thread please.
With just a bit of luck they'll miss what I'm doing.

It is a bit like a convo between two killers in mafia. Not so harmful in that it breaks the game, but an advantage nonetheless.

[Tapper]

Galactic Council, on 10 November 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

Tapper:

Current: 16 money, 5 science, 0 mats. -21 upkeep

Production: 10 money, 6 science, 6 mats.

Total: 5 money, 11 science, 6 mats. -3 upkeep


If somebody will double check that, I'll do those rep draws.

correct.

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 11 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 11 November 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

I don't mind PM's but I can see why people would want it to be overt and "on the table". There's nothing said in the PM that changed any of my decisions and what was said in the PM was said on thread. I also asked Gnaw on thread if he had any sneaky plans. I talked to him about his missiles and wanted him to get a ship in the middle. I suppose a ruling would be better. Something concrete to say yes or no.

Quote

You pass this turn. Then do a reaction move to put your cruiser in Iota bootis. After combat phase you can influence and colonize

I didn't do this, instead I took the ancients on. This was round 2. Then no Pm's until Gnaw told me to shut up.

Gnaw, on 08 November 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

quit talking about my plans on thread please.
With just a bit of luck they'll miss what I'm doing.

It is a bit like a convo between two killers in mafia. Not so harmful in that it breaks the game, but an advantage nonetheless.

The one Gnaw said here,he could/should have told me to shut up on thread after establishing no Pm's. Yet I didn't discuss his plans, he already had them. I was trying to get him to go ahead with a ship in the center with missiles. I forgot about Nova burst just as you all had.

My actions were not influenced by him at all. He already had his plan in place, my plan was just to disrupt your attempt at taking the center, whereas his plan was thwarting it.

[Tapper]

Provisional:

flip one colony ship for science.
Research Antimatter Cannon.

Upkeep: -5
5 money
0 science
6 materials

+10 money
+6 science
+6 materials

[Tapper]

Ganoes Paran, on 11 November 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Tapper, on 11 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 11 November 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

I don't mind PM's but I can see why people would want it to be overt and "on the table". There's nothing said in the PM that changed any of my decisions and what was said in the PM was said on thread. I also asked Gnaw on thread if he had any sneaky plans. I talked to him about his missiles and wanted him to get a ship in the middle. I suppose a ruling would be better. Something concrete to say yes or no.

Quote

You pass this turn. Then do a reaction move to put your cruiser in Iota bootis. After combat phase you can influence and colonize

I didn't do this, instead I took the ancients on. This was round 2. Then no Pm's until Gnaw told me to shut up.

Gnaw, on 08 November 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

quit talking about my plans on thread please.
With just a bit of luck they'll miss what I'm doing.

It is a bit like a convo between two killers in mafia. Not so harmful in that it breaks the game, but an advantage nonetheless.

The one Gnaw said here,he could/should have told me to shut up on thread after establishing no Pm's. Yet I didn't discuss his plans, he already had them. I was trying to get him to go ahead with a ship in the center with missiles. I forgot about Nova burst just as you all had.

My actions were not influenced by him at all. He already had his plan in place, my plan was just to disrupt your attempt at taking the center, whereas his plan was thwarting it.

Tatts, the result doesn't matter. It's the fact that there was a discussion off-thread about the game.
I could PM D'rek and ask her if we could switch colours, or whether or not she intends to grab Advanced Labs. It won't change her actions, I still have to put in mine, but it is discussing the game off-thread. It's principle versus results, basically.

[Imperial Historian]

Gnaw, on 11 November 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

turn 1 provisional IH has the OK to stop this if he wants to

research neutron bombs -2 sci
-5 upkeep. 0, Sci 7, Ma 13

With the amount of neutron bombs on the table I'm not sure this is the right play, but I said what I thought you should get, so let's continue.

Re off thread comms, I would like a decision. Personally I don't mind them, but I'd like a decision.

[Tattersail_]

Imperial Historian, on 11 November 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Gnaw, on 11 November 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

turn 1 provisional IH has the OK to stop this if he wants to

research neutron bombs -2 sci
-5 upkeep. 0, Sci 7, Ma 13

With the amount of neutron bombs on the table I'm not sure this is the right play, but I said what I thought you should get, so let's continue.

Re off thread comms, I would like a decision. Personally I don't mind them, but I'd like a decision.

Did I go for the right thing IH? There was no adv economy on the table. I am thinking I could probably grab both Starbase and Positron computer this turn. Gives my supernova roll +2 and gains my ships some nice tech and defense.

[Imperial Historian]

Improved hull is always a good choice for Orion, and you can still grab a couple of useful techs if they come round again. As long as twelve doesn't get improved hull or advanced economy I'm happy.

[Tattersail_]

No hull or economy for him. Are we going to take his homeworld off of him this turn whilst he is weakest?

He has 20 materials but not much tech.

This post has been edited by Ganoes Paran: 11 November 2013 - 10:56 AM

[Imperial Historian]

I was thinking about it. I'll see what he does then decide. I have a few plans depending on what he does.

[Tattersail_]

Imperial Historian, on 11 November 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

I was thinking about it. I'll see what he does then decide. I have a few plans depending on what he does.

Like I said earlier I was going to do another 2 researches but I only need to do one this round if you need me to upgrade an move.