[Dolmen 2.0]

Now there has been many arguments about heroines and the costumes they wear. I have no doubt believing some of these have a meaning behind them...but when I read this blog: Boob window gets closed. I started to really wonder what this costume war and subsequent concession really means. Is it a win for feminism or a loss for us all?

Discuss.

This post has been edited by Dolmen+: 03 September 2013 - 12:58 PM

[Macros]

Oh no!!!
no more cartoon cleavage??

WHAT WILL WE DO????!?!?!?!?!!!!!! ONE

[Aptorian]

What's the matter with cleavage? Everybody loves cleavage.

What's next? The super women can't wear tight fitting clothes because it is too revealing? Maybe we should just give Power Girl a burka she can wear while fighting crime so that the male heroes don't get distracted or have an amoral thought.

Also I did all that I could to not make a fellatio joke in this comment.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I'd be more offended by her name. I think Power Woman would be more appropriate. And maybe get a woman to write a few issues. Hell, even that panel up there is somewhat offensive as it shows her getting all teary eyed and emotional over people misunderstanding her costume. Whatever. She's a shitty and depthless character from a shallow age of an industry that did its best to squeeze as much money out of the pants pockets of horny teenage boys in the 70's. And her ability to stick around currently is based on her ubiquitous homages from well endowed paid cosplayers at chump siphons conventions.

[QuickTidal]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 03 September 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Whatever. She's a shitty and depthless character from a shallow age of an industry that did its best to squeeze as much money out of the pants pockets of horny teenage boys in the 70's. And her ability to stick around currently is based on her ubiquitous homages from well endowed paid cosplayers at chump siphons conventions.

Actually, she's a rather good character now and has been given some very good storylines in the last decade or so. When Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray were writing her, she was powerful, sassy, take-no-shit, my-eyes-are-up-here type of person. She's the Earth 2 version of Supergirl, and as such her name hearkens back to a time when she WAS actually a girl in the comics. That she's more grown up now could probably handle a name change, but they probably don't want to change the franchise? Dunno.

She's as powerful as Superman, and can be a very interesting play on the Kryptonian cousin character simply because she's nothing like Earth 1 Supergirl / Kara Zor-El...she's a much more mature character in her activities, thought processes and such, and is ostensibly an equal of Clark/Superman on Earth 2...as opposed to her Earth 1 counterpart who always seems to get relegated to the "angsty teenage space alien" role.

In fact, her most recent incarnation in the comics is through WORLD'S FINEST in which she and Helena Wayne (the Huntress from Earth 2 daughter of Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle) have been thrown into Earth 1 and have to come to terms not only with their counterparts here, but that they may never get home. They even gave her a new full body costume (see below).

She's not depthless now...as much as she likely was back then...

My opinion of the boob window. It's excessive really and I'll be happy to see it go away permanently. And that is not cause I hate cleavage, but rather that I feel that it's exploitative for no real reason, and that it's a Stupid Ass clothing option for a superhero, female or otherwise.

Just like how I dislike that DC won't give Wonder Woman pants. She deserves to be able to fight evil without having to do so with bare legs.

And there I think is where it comes down to with me. These people (male and female) are heroes fighting crime and evil and global catastrophes...and I can't understand why they aren't allowed to use clothing that would be appropriate to such activities. I would hope that a real life Wonder Woman would not choose to fight crime in a bustier and underwear.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

QuickTidal, on 03 September 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Spoilsport Stonny, on 03 September 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Whatever. She's a shitty and depthless character from a shallow age of an industry that did its best to squeeze as much money out of the pants pockets of horny teenage boys in the 70's. And her ability to stick around currently is based on her ubiquitous homages from well endowed paid cosplayers at chump siphons conventions.

Actually, she's a rather good character now and has been given some very good storylines in the last decade or so. When Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray were writing her, she was powerful, sassy, take-no-shit, my-eyes-are-up-here type of person. She's the Earth 2 version of Supergirl, and as such her name hearkens back to a time when she WAS actually a girl in the comics. That she's more grown up now could probably handle a name change, but they probably don't want to change the franchise? Dunno.

Yr probably right. I was just referring to her origin as a marketing tool. There is no doubt that boht Marvel and DC comics have made mammoth efforts to correct the mistakes they made as far as how they have historically treated women, minorities, and anybody else not white, male and aged 13-30. But no one could ever make up for Rob Liefield.

[Aptorian]

QuickTidal, on 03 September 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

And there I think is where it comes down to with me. These people (male and female) are heroes fighting crime and evil and global catastrophes...and I can't understand why they aren't allowed to use clothing that would be appropriate to such activities. I would hope that a real life Wonder Woman would not choose to fight crime in a bustier and underwear.

While I agree with the sentiment I think putting super heroes in plain clothes or survival gear or military camo, etc. is a boring choice. Take the X-men for example. Did it make sense that they all got to wear matching black leather costumes with yellow X's and weirdly placed belts all over? Yeah sure. It must be a lot more practical than Colossus' bizarre v-taper yellow and blue cirkus costume. How ever it's also bland and boring and it makes it harder for the hero to stand out. Realism is cool but flashy clothes and weird hair is a lot more fun.

If you're invulnerable and don't need to worry about the weather or temperature change I sure you don't really care about covering up. Especially if you have long legs and an ass that wont quit.

[QuickTidal]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 03 September 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 03 September 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Spoilsport Stonny, on 03 September 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Whatever. She's a shitty and depthless character from a shallow age of an industry that did its best to squeeze as much money out of the pants pockets of horny teenage boys in the 70's. And her ability to stick around currently is based on her ubiquitous homages from well endowed paid cosplayers at chump siphons conventions.

Actually, she's a rather good character now and has been given some very good storylines in the last decade or so. When Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray were writing her, she was powerful, sassy, take-no-shit, my-eyes-are-up-here type of person. She's the Earth 2 version of Supergirl, and as such her name hearkens back to a time when she WAS actually a girl in the comics. That she's more grown up now could probably handle a name change, but they probably don't want to change the franchise? Dunno.

Yr probably right. I was just referring to her origin as a marketing tool. There is no doubt that boht Marvel and DC comics have made mammoth efforts to correct the mistakes they made as far as how they have historically treated women, minorities, and anybody else not white, male and aged 13-30. But no one could ever make up for Rob Liefield.

LOL! Truth. And actually so far Marvel is winning the "equality game" with a full X-MEN title being not only populated by a whole team of women, but also the gender swapping (and sticking of it) with Captain Marvel's mantle having been properly taken up now by the old Ms. Marvel, and being written by Kelly Sue Deconnick to boot.

DC, on the other hand, solicited the New52 with Wonder Woman having pants...and then the titles came out and they took it away.

I mean if it wasn't for Batwoman being a lesbian, and being a VERY strongly written female character, the rest fot he DC universe is stuck in a mire of the 1950's.

[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

Misread the title at first...

 eXtreMe_Power_Puff_Gals_by_burukutong.jpg (44.47K)
Number of downloads: 1

Anyway, the real reason for closing the "window":

 2013_01_21_by_iamarg-d5yds3a.jpg (52.51K)
Number of downloads: 1

[Kaamos]

Is there a male superhero somewhere with a pectoral peephole sprouting chest hair? :-D

On a related topic, I find this blog entertaining: http://repair-her-armor.tumblr.com/
They furthermore have occasional entries where the male hero/villain wears the same contraption. (Could be NSFW in some countries.)

[Abyss]

MODGOD NOTICE OF COMICS-RELATED THREAD MOVED TO OTHERLIT FORUM WHERE IT BELONGS.
CARRY ON.

[Dolmen 2.0]

*Throws blood on the walls and hides under a bushel*

Now back to business:

Kaamos, on 03 September 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Is there a male superhero somewhere with a pectoral peephole sprouting chest hair? :-D

On a related topic, I find this blog entertaining: http://repair-her-armor.tumblr.com/
They furthermore have occasional entries where the male hero/villain wears the same contraption. (Could be NSFW in some countries.)

Well thats an interesting blog! that super villain had me in stitches.

Little girl Heroes

Heres a few versions of Superhero costume designs as applied from the sensibilities of little(and not so little) girls.

I think it makes sense to start addressing comic book culture as something with a bit more reach than the original target market. It is more responsible to start giving them further thought in regards to attire attire. All fiction has started to do this, its a good way to balance out the market and find more common ground for fans of both sexes.

Good costume design should do the basic job of A) Masking Identity, B ) Iconizing the character as an embodiment of secutrity and protection then lastly C)facilitate the act of saving people.

I think a lot of the initiative set in place by New 52 is correct, Wonder woman gets pants, Black Canary is bolder and functional as a member of the Birds of prey. The animated adaptation, Young Justice is geared at a new audience and I am impressed with how practical it looks and feels. So in regards to whats said up thread I'd go so far as to say DC are trying...But then the White Rabbit, Batmans new Villain, comes along and screws it all up.

Still Power Girl has always felt pretty strong as a character. developing faster and further than Supergirl ever could. Closing the Boob window is a debatable thing for me. Nothing she shows I don't see going to the beach on a hot summers day. When is it Hypersensitivity? When are we too touchy about the female form?

@ Kaamos: In a word? Namor.

This post has been edited by Dolmen+: 03 September 2013 - 06:10 PM

[QuickTidal]

Dolmen+, on 03 September 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

@ Kaamos: In a word? Namor.

I forget who said it, but Namor's outfit has to be that way...he lives in the sea...clothes would slow him down.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

And how else could he score some rough trade?

[Studlock]

I'm of two minds on this 1) clearly Power Girl's current costume was made to pander to the male gaze, which is a no-no for me because to just attributes to a larger (and mainstream) social problem of the objectification of women. But on the other hand 2) I believe women should be able to wear whatever the hell the want without being objectified which includes a boob window if they feel comfortable with it. So basically if a large number of female readers respond well to Power Girl and how she looks and how she acts then more power to them, but I think the vast majority of complaints about her outfit come from women and we should really pay attention to that as creators and readers. If we are depicting a character and the real life social group the character is apart of is responding negatively we should give it a second look.

[Illuyankas]

Ha ha you think DC has female readers any more

Spoilsport Stonny, on 03 September 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

And how else could he score some rough trade?

[Puck]

The main reason I applaud the removal of the boob window is that whoever drew that page of Power Girl crying cannot draw boobs. At all. REmoving the opportunity lessens the eye sore.

Some things have been said already, but what I want to add is that if you're going to reveal any parts of the female physeique because of.. whatever, then at least do it well - what's the point in showing boobs if they're not recognizable as boobs? But that's the point, I guess: if it's done well it tends to lessen the objectification, revealing clothing or not, because well drawn characters have dignity.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Puck, on 04 September 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

The main reason I applaud the removal of the boob window is that whoever drew that page of Power Girl crying cannot draw boobs. At all. REmoving the opportunity lessens the eye sore.

Some things have been said already, but what I want to add is that if you're going to reveal any parts of the female physeique because of.. whatever, then at least do it well - what's the point in showing boobs if they're not recognizable as boobs? But that's the point, I guess: if it's done well it tends to lessen the objectification, revealing clothing or not, because well drawn characters have dignity.

Could not agree more.



Not a thing altered about the personality of the characters. Adam hughes knows his stuff. he isn't entirely guilt free but when he depicts a character he lends strength to them just by ensuring quality.

[Kaamos]

Dolmen+, on 03 September 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Little girl Heroes

Heres a few versions of Superhero costume designs as applied from the sensibilities of little(and not so little) girls.

Hehe, I really liked the Green Lantern with a flower pup, and glad I weren't drinking anything while scrolling down to the tutu Hulk. XD XD

Puck, on 04 September 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

The main reason I applaud the removal of the boob window is that whoever drew that page of Power Girl crying cannot draw boobs. At all. REmoving the opportunity lessens the eye sore.

Urgh yes. The last time I looked, mine weren't glued to the collar bones either. Dx

* *

Googled Namor--not very well versed in American superheroes. Yup, I guess that costume would correspond to that of Power Girl.

I don't mind sexy female superheroes in general, yet if they perform cartwheels while dressed in a bootlace and two bottlecaps, so should there exist more eye candy for the female audiences as well (and I haven't seen Scandinavian Hunks touring the DC/Marvel worlds yet). One character that had me smiling was the bearded, long-haired version of Aquaman in the Justice League cartoon. :-D
(And the issue of practicality/dignity in general--agreeing with that. Chain mail bikinis et al have become one of my larger peeves during the past couple of years, starting from the point when I tried to find good references for protective female armor. Two saucepan lids do not save one from disembowelment.)

This post has been edited by Kaamos: 04 September 2013 - 10:24 AM

[Macros]

Its a well documented fact that female warriors only get hit on the tits or vagina. Any more coverage will slow them down and impede their fighting ability.