[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Salt-Man Z, on 15 April 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

I'm fairly certain that Edgewalker is an Elder God, or at least "just" an Azathanai, given his mentions in DoD.

First is when Errastas, Sechul Lath, and Kilmandaros are discussing Errastas' summons of the other Elders:

DoD Chapter 11 said:

"Draconus is lost within Dragnipur. Nightchill's soul is scattered to the winds. Grizzin Farl vanished millenia ago. And Edgewalker might well deny any compulsion out of sheer obstinacy or, possibly, a righteous claim to disassociation."

They go on to discuss Olar Ethil, K'rul, and Ardata. So Edgewalker is lumped in with a bunch of other Elder Gods/Azathanai, and can be compelled (or at least sense a summons) by the Master of the Holds. (This also seems to poke a hole in any Edgewalker=Grizzin Farl theories.)

There's also this interesting quote, Sechul Lath's thoughts as the Elder Gods are gathering:

DoD Chapter 16 said:

Olar Ethil, we cannot trust you. Errastas should never have invited you here. You are worse than K'rul. More of a threat to us than Draconus, or Edgewalker.

Again, all Elder God/Azathanai references...

I'd forgotten all of that (I'm on Reaper's Gale in my current re-read). Nicely found.

There's also a bit in TCG when Cotillion asks him about failure being like a massive wall of flame (paraphrasing) and he thinks to himself that EW looks a little scorched. Given they're talking about something along the lines of being in control of all the pieces and then having it slip away, I read that as supporting "former god".

[Nevyn]

Until Fall of Light pretends to give us more answers and really just leaves more questions, I am going to assume that Edgewalker is Hunn Raal, but the reasoning for it for now is pretty weak, I admit.

First, I am using process of elimination. I am pretty sure who Edgewalker isn't, and it covers most of the characters in FoD. So either we haven't seen him yet (possibly an as yet unreferenced Azathenai), or I would say Hunn Raal. I am pretty confident he is not Arathan. Pretty confident he is not Grizzin Farl.

Second, Hunn Raal makes sense in ending up related to shadow. And him being a skeleton with a rusty sword implies some sort of epic curse, which seems to be the type of thing Hunn Raal will eventually earn himself.

Beyond that, I've got nothing. Best argument against Hunn Raal are the quotes above referring to him like an Elder God. But Holds, and Errastas' role are 'still to come' as of FoD, so who he could or could not summon and who ends up in the first wave of gods is still up for some debate.

[Maark Abbott]

By virture of Kruppe being everyone, we can in fact deduce that Edgewalker is Kruppe.

[Gorefest]

Nah, Kruppe is either a high priest of the Lady of Dreams, or Triss himself. If K'rul can be manifest as both male and female, then surely Triss can do the same.

Edgewalker is probable one of the Azathenai that we haven't met yet, or one of the Tiste that will become a leading Edur.

[Maark Abbott]

Gorefest, on 04 April 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

Nah, Kruppe is either a high priest of the Lady of Dreams, or Triss himself. If K'rul can be manifest as both male and female, then surely Triss can do the same.

Edgewalker is probable one of the Azathenai that we haven't met yet, or one of the Tiste that will become a leading Edur.

Kruppe is also Triss and the LoD. He is everyone.

[Shadow Knight]

Do we know for a fact Edgewalker is male?

[Egwene]

Shadow Knight, on 04 April 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

Do we know for a fact Edgewalker is male?

If for example, you look at The Crippled God, Chapter 1, page 10 (UK paperback) - it says 'his rotted moccasins' - so the answer is yes, I guess.

[Shadow Knight]

I always thought of him as being male was just curious whether was ever stated, but ya that pretty much confirms it I guess, could of been an interesting spin if hadnt; as the assumption could of been wrong

[Gorefest]

Well, assuming that Edgewalker is Azathenai, and we have seen at least one Azathenai/Elder God change gender, who knows. Might simply be dependent on what his/her followers believe him/her to be. And as we do not hav any indication so far that Edgwalker has any followers, his default identification as male is probably correct at this point in time. But if amazons in the deep jungles of Jacuruku start worshipping him, who knows?

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 05 April 2015 - 02:46 PM

[Egwene]

Something not yet mentioned is the meeting between Silchas Ruin and Thulas Shorn (tCG, Chapter 16)...

The thoughts and words of Thulas Shorn imply an enormous secret shared between him and Anomander Rake. When Edgewalker is mentioned, Shorn's incredibly strong reaction seems to imply that Edgewalker was central to this secret and almost as if his current/continued existence was unexpected by Thulas and enough to make him forgive Rake...

Any thoughts?

[Nevyn]

Egwene, on 23 April 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

Something not yet mentioned is the meeting between Silchas Ruin and Thulas Shorn (tCG, Chapter 16)...

The thoughts and words of Thulas Shorn imply an enormous secret shared between him and Anomander Rake. When Edgewalker is mentioned, Shorn's incredibly strong reaction seems to imply that Edgewalker was central to this secret and almost as if his current/continued existence was unexpected by Thulas and enough to make him forgive Rake...

Any thoughts?

Can you quote the relevant passage?

[Andorion]

I just read this section. The impression I got was that at some point in the past Rake did something which made Tulas seriously hostile to him. When Silchas mentions Edgewalker, Edgewalkers survival seems to indicate that Tulas was wrong, Rake did not do what he thought he did, and so Tulas can forgive Rake. Maybe a military or other violent act Rake did during the civil war that started in FoD?

[Egwene]

Nevyn, on 23 April 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

Can you quote the relevant passage?

The whole section is a bit long to transcribe as I don't have a Kindle, but if you look at the following Google Book Preview results you can read the entire sequence if you click on 'View all' and go to the 6th result. You will then need to scroll up a bit to get to the beginning of the sequence.

By the way, I am now using Preview all the time, so thanks, again!

[Egwene]

Andorion, on 23 April 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

I just read this section. The impression I got was that at some point in the past Rake did something which made Tulas seriously hostile to him. When Silchas mentions Edgewalker, Edgewalkers survival seems to indicate that Tulas was wrong, Rake did not do what he thought he did, and so Tulas can forgive Rake. Maybe a military or other violent act Rake did during the civil war that started in FoD?

Just read it again, and taking into account the earlier theories...

How about - Edgewalker is Father Light, who with Anomander's help disappeares into Shadow. Tulas somehow finds out about it and tells Anomander things like: 'It will never work', 'You are endangering us all', 'I'll tell the others'... the usual sort of thing. Anomander answers 'It will', 'I am not' and 'No, you won't' and kills Tulas.

[Nevyn]

Egwene, on 24 April 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Nevyn, on 23 April 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

Can you quote the relevant passage?

The whole section is a bit long to transcribe as I don't have a Kindle, but if you look at the following Google Book Preview results you can read the entire sequence if you click on 'View all' and go to the 6th result. You will then need to scroll up a bit to get to the beginning of the sequence.

By the way, I am now using Preview all the time, so thanks, again!

When I asked for the quote, that section was in the non previewed pages. Ive read it since.


As for the theories, I still don't buy Edgewalker as Father Light. If it was, it would likely be something about Rake murdering him thinking he was responsible for FoD events, then making a deal with Hood to make him guardian to make up for it.

But my current zero basis crackpot theory is Edgewalker is an as-yet unmet Azathenai, possibly aspected to death, and that some sort of deal is going to be made between Rake and Hood during/after Hood's war that results in him being guardian over the shattered warren.


Another possibility: Edgewalker is the river god from FoD

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 24 April 2015 - 02:16 PM

[Egwene]

Nevyn, on 24 April 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

When I asked for the quote, that section was in the non previewed pages. Ive read it since.


As for the theories, I still don't buy Edgewalker as Father Light. If it was, it would likely be something about Rake murdering him thinking he was responsible for FoD events, then making a deal with Hood to make him guardian to make up for it.

But my current zero basis crackpot theory is Edgewalker is an as-yet unmet Azathenai, possibly aspected to death, and that some sort of deal is going to be made between Rake and Hood during/after Hood's war that results in him being guardian over the shattered warren.


Another possibility: Edgewalker is the river god from FoD

What about the conversation between Silchas and Thulas though? Any theory on how you would fit in those strong reactions to Edgewalker which Thulas displays??

[Nevyn]

It is tough to speculate as FoD still ends well before any of these events could have transpired.

The sides in the war have to be more defined, the Tiste lands need to become divided by it into Emurlahn and Liosan (and at the same time or after become warrens). The Eleint need to do something, become part of K'rul's scheme for the warrens, some Tiste need to become soletaken, they need to fight their war, Tulas needs to participate (or witness) the war on death, and at some point take the throne of Shadow if there is one (although some of that could be after this vow).

And because SE is such a bastard, the conversation itself (including Tulas' near inner monologue) is needlessly cryptic. Thus we don't know whether the repeated "How did he manage it?" refer to simply keeping the secret, or vowing to DO something and keeping it secret. We also don't know if Tulas suddenly forgives him for having done it, or kept the secret, or because he just realized the burden the secret placed on Rake for millenia.

I mean, whoever you want to say Edgewalker is you can make up a scenario where that is what they are talking about. And each theory has its flaws

Urusander: Rake kills him in misplaced vengeance, learns of his error and vows to make it right, and somehow manages to free him, but as a servant of shadow.
Hunn Raal: Rake vows to force him to eternally serve the realm (interesting that the third book is called "walk in shadow" which sounds a lot like a curse you might place on someone.

River god: The war leads to further crimes on the deniers and their god, the lands making up the new shadow warren impinge on their home, and Rake does something that results in the River God become a protector of the shattered realm, either due to his part in the war, or the taking of blood of T'iam that supposedly led to the shattering of the warren.

Azathenai aspected to death: Rake feels bad for his part in the war shattering the warren and mother dark turning away, and vows to find a protector to 'trace the edges' of the shattered realm, and at some point bargains with Hood to have the somehow defeated Azathenai representing death released to be a guardian for shadow. Holes in this too, but explains why Hood would ask Edgewalker to "mitigate" in the deal he was making with Rake.

[RandallFlagg]

Hey guys, I was contemplating the theory of Father Light/ Urasander being Edgewalker and I remembered this passage. Kilmandaros is having a dream (memory?) of meeting Osserc in the sundered shadow realm. He has just killed a bunch of people and is being pretty arrogant, but is lingering because there's only one portal left open to escape through.

Page 334 of Dust of Dreams

'And who waits for you there, Osserc?'
'Edgewalker.'
Kilmandaros bared her massive fangs in a broad smile. And then threw a laugh back at him. She moved on. His voice sounded surprised as he called out behind her.
'What are you doing? He is angry. Do you not understand? He is angry!'


Now this is just what Kilmandaros thinks is a dream, but it would seem bizarre to include if it didn't have any significance. Osserc pretty much laughed off all the death threats Kilmandaros was throwing at him but seems to be terrified of facing Edgewalker. Could mean one of two things:
1) Edgewalker is much stronger than Osserc and Kilmandaros
2) Going with Edgewalker being Osserc's father, it's why he's so scared to face him and no one else. Osserc has run around unchecked but now he knows that his father will face him and "he's angry". Could also be why Kilmandaros laughed at him, since he was being so arrogant yet is wetting himself over seeing daddy.

I'd love for number 2 to be the case. Admittedly it is a bit of a stretch, but this is the first time since starting the series that I've had to wait for the next book to come out so I'm grasping at straws

[D'iver koala bear]

Daeg, on 17 October 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

I like this topic as it applies to kruppe. It seems to me that power beckons power....

People become powerful one of 2 ways....they are children of the powerful or they are an anomaly. A convergence.

Id say it's more to do with will power!

Its hard to explain people like dassem or trull or kruppe or karsa or tool without accepting the concept of power convergence.

Dassem became powerful because of the imass announcing him first sword over tool and his single mindedness
Trull was pure skill and will power
Kruppe is obviously a true savant of the highest level
And karsa is will power, single mindedness, loads of vows, skill, otateral and his warren he could conjur like Icarium

Along those lines...when anyone gains sudden power..ganoes paran as master of the deck for example...a convergence takes place and power gathers to the convergence point.

Paran was made powerful by chance just like Kyle and they never wanted none of it just mischance and look how powerful they became

I think treach is a two-fold example...he is child to kilava so he is born powerful...but until he physically dies his true power has not converged to the point of ascendance.

Treach wasn't child of killava just a descendant being the only living imass left he was human as he was from dessimbilakis human empire

That's just my point of view. My explanation is not terribly thorough and certainly invites holes to be poked in it. =)

[Gorefest]

Always wanted to use this emoticon, it just never seemed relevant. But now that we're into breaking such mundane barriers...