[Upwood]

We have the second temple of Drek with all people killed in it. And again its associated with decay, rot, dissolution. First I thought it could be the demon Dejim Nebrahl from the beginning. So I read the prologue again and yes maybe its the demon. But by continuing reading Heboric and the Soldier state it's a "she" who killed them -Bling- could this be Spite? But until now we do not know much about her: Mother Sheltatha, father Draconus, sister Envy and she is one of the Nameless Ones. Have we met her before?

Another enlightenment I've got from reading the beginning again was, that Dejim Nebrah must be after Icarium. The third and the fourth Nameless One say: "...We have chosen one current, a terrible, unchained force - chosen to guide it, to shape its course unseen unchallenged. We intend to drive one force upon another, and so effect mutual annihilation..." and "We must acknowledge grief for the impending demise of an honorable servant..." They must be talking about Icarium and Mappo. We've already seen that the Azath want capture Icarium. Right?

What happened to the Tyrannt in Darujhistan again? Was he not killed? What was it all about him? Would be nice to give me a little wrap up.

Then Cutter says: "If you are speaking of mages, that would be the T'orrud Cabal" and the Rider from Hood gives Cutter the names of Barukanal, Derudanith, Travalegrah, Mammoltenan. We know Baruk and Cutters uncle Mammot. But with the answer from the Rider "Uncle! Hah! Absurd!" It looks like Mammot is not really Crokus uncle. And should the name T'orrud Cabal not say something to me? Have we met Travalegrah?

This post has been edited by Upwood: 24 August 2013 - 10:34 AM

[Trull's son]

I won't answer anything in your first two paragraphs, as I'm worried about spoiling stuff unintentionally.

The Jaghut tyrant, Raest, is alive in the azath in Darujhistan. He fought Silanah and friends in GotM, and was trapped in Finnest House. Paran speaks with him in MoI. There are other tyrants associated with Darujhistan's history, though this issue is not explored fully until TtH and ICE's Orb, Scepter, Throne.

T'orrud Cabal is the cabal of mages based in Darujhistan, which includes Mammot, Baruk, Vorcan (I think), and others. Not sure if Travalegrah has had an appearance yet, however, at least one previously unseen member of the cabal makes an appearance in OST, though I cannot recall the name.

I have a feeling you might want to check out this thread: http://forum.malazan...-style-re-read/

The re-read, if I'm not mistaken, involves chapter summaries and thoughts from a first time reader, and a re-reader. I think it may be wise to avoid the comment sections (there may be spoilers in there).

This post has been edited by Trull's son: 30 July 2013 - 12:00 PM

[Puck]

About your first question.. I don't think it's a spoiler but more a thing of putting the pieces together. D'rek is the Worm of Autumn, which in turn is associated with rot and decay. In some parts of Wu D'rek is also considered to be female. The rest is up to you to make the connections.

[Upwood]

Thanks a lot for your answers. How could I forget about Raest and all, but you get lost so easily. And the first part of my post is more intended for some other first reader. Maybe there are some around?

Trull, on 30 July 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

I have a feeling you might want to check out this thread: http://forum.malazan...-style-re-read/

The re-read, if I'm not mistaken, involves chapter summaries and thoughts from a first time reader, and a re-reader. I think it may be wise to avoid the comment sections (there may be spoilers in there).

I know about re-read from Tor and it is really helpful sometimes. BUT as you say there are spoilers in the comment sections, the re-reader has much more knowledge (also the reader maybe because of more time) and most importantly you have no interaction possibilities as one has here So that’s why I started without the reread at the begin of BH. So I will post some questions and thoughts in here if that’s ok?

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Upwood, on 30 July 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

So I will post some questions and thoughts in here if that's ok?

I'm sure it's fine. Just don't be surprised when the answer you get is a "Read and find out (RAFO)" because a bunch of what you may want to know usually gets cleared up by the end of the book(s). Once you are finished the book, you can feel safe that nothing will be spoilered for you up to the end of the book whose forum you are posting questions in.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 30 July 2013 - 02:42 PM

[Abyss]

Crokus and Mammot's relation was in doubt even back in GotM. It was hinted that Mammot was more of an adoptive uncle than a blood relative.

The T'orruc Cabal were the mages who secretly operated in Darujhistan, possibly as a ruling body tho their actual influence was never quite clear, altho Rake approaching Baruk was telling.

Vorcan killed a bunch of them on contract to the Malazans before Serrat and Crokus stopped her from killing Baruk and Derudan. Travalegrah was one of the ones she killed, tho i thinkl s/he was going by a different but similar name.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

It was "Travale" in the Dramatis Personae. "A Pious soldier of the cabal".

[Upwood]

After holidays I'm back reading and have some more questions and thoughts about the chapters 5-7.

First: I don't like Karsa. You always like characters more or less. But with Karsa I'm really disturbed. It's about how he is presented by Eriksson, physiological and psychological. He is way too strong in my eyes. In the beginning of HOC I had the image that he just was much stronger then "normal" humans. He even gets captured. But then he kills and knocks out all his combatants so easy and I mean look with whom he is dealing with: Tiste Edur, Hound of Dark (stronger then Hounds of Shadow!), the Monster in the Keep and Icarium. I could live with that, but then there is he's psychological development. He lived for about 80 years in a completely isolated culture in his arrogance and how he is presented in HOC shows a huge simple-mindedness (with his father, with Bairoth, Dayliss, his killing and conquering thoughts, his violation and raping). He go's out into the world and all of a sudden is the brainer, thinker and philosopher? Just wwo quotes I picked up from BH:

Chapter 5 with Samar about inventions: "How can you call yourself an inventor if you dislike breaking things?"Karsa goes from the barbarian slaughterer to the wisdom of Josef Schumpeter. Although I kind of liked it, because I just read some stuff from Schumpeter.

Chapter 7: "Slaves, children in chains, a thousand lies to make one person better then the next, a thousand lies telling you this is how things should be, and there's no stopping it. Madness called sanity, slavery called freedom."


Bottle. Where is he from? Where are his skills from again? Another little wrap up please.

Do we already know why Fid has the special ability to sense magic?


And about the Malazan military structure and the 14^th Army a little summary:

Campaign commanded by a High Fist or Adjunct
Army commanded by a High Fist Adjunct or Fist, Commander 2^nd in command
Legion commanded by a Fist
Company commanded by a Captain, Lieutenant 2^nd in command
Squad commanded by a Sergeant, Corporal 2^nd in command

14^th Army commanded by Adjunct Tavore and the most important characters so far

8^th Legion Fist Keneb,
9^th Company: Marines Captain Faradan & Lieutenant Ranal;
4^th Squad: Sergeant Strings & Corporal Tarr, Bottle (mage), Koryk, Smiles, Cuttle (sapper)
Sergent Hellian & Corporal Urb,
Sergeant Gesler & Corporal Stormy
Sergeant Borduke & Corporal Hubb

9^th Legion Fist Blistig,

10^th Legion Fist Tene Beralta

This post has been edited by Upwood: 24 August 2013 - 11:29 AM

[lastname]

You might've seen this already but here are SE's thoughts on why he created Karsa and what he was shooting for. That may help with your dislike of those chapters ... or not

http://www.steveneri...f-karsa-orlong/

[Upwood]

No I haven't seen that, thanks a lot. It's a really good background to Karsa and helped me a lot.

[Stormcat]

Thanks for the link! I was having mixed feelings about Karsa, it's good to see where SE was coming from.
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, the answer to who killed everyone in D'reks temple is very clear by the end. I just finished the book last night and was completely riveted the last 200 pages. I barely stopped to breathe.

This post has been edited by Stormcat: 29 October 2013 - 11:39 PM

[Kanese S's]

I also have mixed feelings on Karsa.

Though that's partly due to being annoyed at the worship he gets on this forum.